UKGPL Season 23 (2012) Privateers Trophy (67) - Dijon-Prenois - Nov 4

[Rainier]

looking at my replay is it possible myself and others were not using the same track  judging by the amount "some cars " were being driven over the white lines .

Is it technically possible to connect and to race with another track ? 
maybe we can see that with GPLRA ?

By the way, I was far from the 1mn22sec per lap. I think my best should be 1mn25sec ...but it was enough for the 2nd place 


The race was very difficult, as I don't know very well this track (I think I only made a full race in mod65 with GPLracer in the past), I made a poor start and lost 2 or 3 positions but was quickly 3rd very far behind Hendy and Phil.
Then, Phil probably did some mistakes and I was able to overtake him when he spun. Then I just try to do no mistakes and I could be happy with this final 2nd position.


Now here are the standings (before moderation)
1 Rainier 311 - 39 = 272
2 Hendy 279 - 23 = 256
3 Phil 296 - 56 = 240
so everything can happen!

[Rainier]

I just see there are 2 versions for Tripoli, next race : 1935 and 1937 !

which one should be used ?

[bernie]

Hmm, but you were racing with us in that race

In all seriousness we have looked at the issue vis a vis our rules and the background is UKGPL have followed the GPL Rank rules on world records. Every claim to a world record lap has to be supported by a full replay and is allegedly examined frame by frame to ensure that 2 wheels are always on the tarmac. Therefore "clipping" a corner by putting the 2 inside wheels on the grass is deemed acceptable and is entirely at the risk of the driver, if this results in contact with another car because of the loss of direction/control, then we have rules to cover that.
I think this would cater for the situation above. That said Division Moderators can bring in a specific ruling per track/event if deemed prudent.

I think that explains everything

Errmmm      No

[Phil Thornton]

David, you are right about that being a tough race!  I tried my best to stay ahead of you but one small mistake (when I was looking in my mirrors at the back marker I had just passed instead of concentrating on what I was doing) was all that you needed to get through.  After that I put you under as much pressure as I could but you didn't crack.  There was no way to get past without you making a mistake.

The race started well, I got a great start and lead into the first corner.  I held the lead for a couple of laps but it was only a matter of time before Cookie blasted his way past in the Lotus.  Fortunately for me he went wide at Parabolique and I got the place back.  After that I desperately tried to fend off Hendy but he was just too quick and I nearly lost it altogether trying to drive side-by-side through several corners.  Good clean racing but the result was inevitable.

Having looked at our lap times compared to the works drivers, I'm quite surprised how quick we were.  The intense competition is bringing out the best in us!

The last two rounds are going to be a hard fight.  I have more points to drop so I have an outside chance of the title but as you say there is everything to play for.

Good luck to Hendy and David in the next round.  I think we'll all be asked to join the works next season at this rate!

[il_lupo_mannaro]

A fantastic track!
Unfortunately I hadn't a reliable setup so I couldn't really compete for the podium...
I quit after my Repco engine suddenly exploded
Wd for the podium and everyone raced
Black Night Racing rules!!

[AnGex]

Hi there,

Qualifying was quite acceptable for me and the Start was also OK. The Race itself was OK, too. So I am happy with a Top-6 finish.
Congratulations to the Podium and all Finishers!

So long
Andreas

[BadBlood]

In general terms Bernie, you can put the car where you want. There are three things to bear in mind though.

1) The racetrack is explicitly defined by the white lines (or other well defined change of surface in the case of GPL, e.g. tarmac/grass, tarmac/gravel etc.). We'll call it the "white line". If the boundary is not clear then there is latitude but in 99.9% of cases the boundaries of the racetrack are very clear.
2) If, by cutting a corner, you gain an advantage and you repeatedly do it you can be penalised. The "white line" is used to decide if the corner is cut. This dealt with in the rules under Railriding and Corner Cutting here. This has resulted in penalties in the past e.g. here.
3) If you do race outside the white lines (all four wheels) you are (voluntarily) in a rejoin situation and woe betide you if you crash into somebody else. This was the subject of some controversy last season and is explicitly dealt with here. The relevant portion being the opening paragraph: "Any car that has four wheels off the track, intentionally or unintentionally must rejoin and obviously do so safely. Cars are also in a rejoin situation whenever they have stopped racing for whatever reason - a spin, stopping to avoid other cars etc."

[s2173]

I had the impression that the track is sopposed to be driven that way...even in the video bernie posted, Arnoux is often driving outside of the white lines, most noticeable at the last turn into the straight. I have seen that in alot of the modern tracks, exit line also often goes way outside of the white lines, entrance line sometimes too, I watched alot of incar driving from iracing and that seems to be the usial line, taking all the space form the track that you possibly can whitout going off the tarmac. Not sure how regulations in real world go about this... Cutting the corners on other hand is not very feasable because of the rumble strip or however its called, and almost all tracks have such a thing to prevent corner cutting.

[bernie]

Sky , afaics in the vid Arnoux goes completely outside the white lines only in one place , the final RH turn onto the straight , for the rest of the lap he has two wheels on the track proper , even though he cuts the corners . He is doing demo laps and not racing , using todays ruling he would be taking a penalty , but this is GPL not real life , if we have rules , we should stick to them , we all can make a mistake and run wide at some time during a lap , that is not what I am talking about here .

The question is , "is it legal to drive completely outside (all four wheels outside) the white lines on "every lap "  not just on one corner but several during each lap .

The answer appears to be No , it is not allowed .

Is it possible to run a different track version than that used by the server ?  I dont see why not if they are similar (only different in some small way ) The correct track was version 2 is it possible Hendy or others was running V1 ? only they would know .

I'm not an expert but afaik,  there is nothing to stop you or me or anyone else who cares to , using a dis-assembler to access the programme code , changing the code to adjust the track layout slightly, re assembling and racing on the altered track .

N.B.  I AM NOT SUGGESTING ANYONE HERE HAS DONE THIS  , merely stating it as an example of what can be done ?

[Podkrecony_Ziutek]

So if driving outside of white lines is actually illegal, than what are we gonna do with 14 years of racing in Mexico? Because everybody I was racing with on this track, drives like this.

[bernie]

Precisely why I was asking for the rules to be clarified 

[s2173]

Well, this seems to be the legit way to drive mexico... gplrank verified world records follow the same line. Might be easier to assume that anything that is tarmac is not considered offtrack?

I seriously thought that going outside of the white lines was the fastest and safest way to drive dijon too, and i think everybody in works used similiar line. And Im still not convinced that it is illegal.

[Artiglietti]

Lol, that video of Mexico is a good example, good post. Actually in that lap there is corner cutting, technically speaking, as the car is slicing beyond the white lines through the esses, it would be good to clarify this is allowed before the final race we have there in a few weeks. just to avoid further discussions. It would fall in the category of track-specific ruling.

I think Paul's post was very clear guys. You are not allowed to cut corners by crossing the lines. But you are allowed to go beyond the white lines on entry and on exit of the corners. This is considered 'leaving the track voluntarily', and you are just required attention when 'rejoining', as it were. Adelaide is another good example. In the race I had there during my Novice season, crossing the lines with four wheels wasnt allowed only in the first chicane (corner cutting, but a nightmare ruling to actually abide to..), but was permitted on every other part of the track (exit of corners mostly...). For the records, I think in the video of Arnoux and Villeneuve, the Renault is well beyond the kerb at T3 at some point, while overtaking or defending I cant remember, no one complained back then i think  .

I am aware that nowdays the rules in F1 are a bit more strict (although only since a couple of years, really). I suspect one of the main problems we have is that if we introduce a rule about this, then someone has to sit there checking the entire race of everyone else, which is something I dont see even Bernie volunteering for..

Incidentally, it is not that crossing the lines at Dijon makes you all of a sudden a second quicker, especially with the 67s low grip; for what I could tell,  you are probably talking 2 tenths or 3 at the most.

[Hristo Itchov]

I've raced Dijon a couple of times in leagues in the past, including here and in others. There was never an issue about cutting, it was about using as much tarmac as possible because everyone can do it if they want. There is no actual advantage gained by cutting INTO corners, beyond the curb, so I don't see what's the big fuss about. The entry and exit of corners is much safer if you use the whole width, instead of trying to stay within white lines which you can barely see or not see at all until you're close to the entry/exit before/after corners.

[bernie]

Big fuss ?

Whose making a fuss , I was just curious for the simple reason I thought it was against the rules to leave the track to gain an advantage .

If it makes no difference as you say then why do it at all , surely that makes you the fuss maker not little old me  

I will be takng the Lotus to mexico so its nice to know I can drive the track with impunty .

As youwell know in GPL you only need to stray off the black stuff by 1/10000 inch in Pro mode and its a black flag , fortunately we have the feature turned off for on line racing but wasn't always so and IMO it made for better racing .