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  • S23F2 Jops Siffert: December 07, 2012
December 07, 2012, 09:38:13 PM +0000 - Jops Siffert - UKGPL Season 23 (2012) Formula 2 Trophy
Driver
 Team
Nat. Make Model Class Qualifying Race
Tyres Pos Time/Gap Pos Time/Gap Laps Stops Best Retirement
reason
Ballast
Al Heller
 Clark-Hill Racing
McLaren M4A GPL F2 9 +1.308
110.148mph
1 38:35.600
109.116mph
26 1:28.392
109.942mph
Goodyear  
EvilClive
 HikiWazaRacing
Cooper T84 GPL F2 6 +0.774
110.819mph
2 +24.722
107.963mph
26 1:27.553
110.996mph
Dunlop  
Hristo Itchov
 HikiWazaRacing
Ferrari 166 GPL F2 4 +0.343
111.366mph
3 +28.871
107.772mph
26 1:27.362
111.238mph
Firestone  
Arf Arf Arf
 
Matra MS7 GPL F2 5 +0.769
110.825mph
4 +43.931
107.084mph
26 1:27.790
110.696mph
Dunlop  
JonnyO
 Team Coyote
McLaren M4A GPL F2 8 +1.216
110.263mph
5 +1:16.335
105.633mph
26 1:27.942
110.505mph
Goodyear  
G Jonsson
 Black Night Racing
Cooper T84 GPL F2 7 +1.124
110.378mph
6 +1L
109.036mph
25 1:27.744
110.754mph
Dunlop  
Rainier
 Black Night Racing
Cooper T84 GPL F2 11 +2.346
108.867mph
7 +1:34.707
104.590mph
25 1:28.778
109.464mph
Dunlop  
Giovani
 Team Coyote
Brabham BT23 GPL F2 3 +0.320
111.395mph
8 +1:46.168
104.077mph
25 1:27.425
111.158mph
Goodyear  
dave curtis
 Black Night Racing
Cooper T84 GPL F2 19 9 +2:18.839
102.640mph
25 1:29.470
108.618mph
Dunlop  
Billy Nobrakes
 Black Night Racing
Brabham BT23 GPL F2 16 +7.766
102.635mph
10 +2:37.658
101.831mph
25 1:30.474
107.412mph
Goodyear  
bernie
 Soggy Bottom Racers Club
Matra MS7 GPL F2 15 +3.944
106.952mph
11 +2:42.341
101.631mph
25 1:29.900
108.098mph
Dunlop  
Phil Thornton
 Antipasti Racing
Ferrari 166 GPL F2 13 +3.316
107.697mph
12 +3:03.026
100.759mph
25 1:29.506
108.574mph
Firestone  
roguk
 Clark-Hill Racing
Matra MS7 GPL F2 12 +2.832
108.278mph
13 +20L
103.167mph
6 1:30.366
107.541mph
accident
Dunlop  
Raoni Frizzo
 Team Coyote
Brabham BT23 GPL F2 1 1:26.919
111.805mph
14 (+3) +20.331
99.585mph
6 1:27.568
110.977mph
accident
Goodyear  
Cookie
 Antipasti Racing
Brabham BT23 GPL F2 10 +1.354
110.090mph
16 +23L
106.432mph
3 1:28.612
109.669mph
Disco
Goodyear  
BadBlood
 HikiWazaRacing
Lotus 48 GPL F2 17 +14.149
96.153mph
17 +24L
72.793mph
2 2:03.827
78.481mph
Disco
Firestone  
francesco
 Antipasti Racing
Matra MS5 GPL F2 14 +3.520
107.454mph
18 +25L
96.476mph
1 1:39.383
97.784mph
Disco
Dunlop  
UKGPL 3
 
Lola T100 (FVA) GPL F2 18 19 DNS ---
---
Firestone  
MagicArsouille
 
Matra MS7 GPL F2 2 +0.084
111.698mph
Excluded +22L
102.032mph
4 1:27.249
111.383mph
Disco
Dunlop  

Moderator's Report

Almost nothing to do for the moderators...


Drivers are reminded that SnG MUST be taken in the Pits.

Giovani takes his stops on track. This is not correct. Please ensure you know where the pit is and take a correct SnG after EACH reset.


Server replay time: 0h00m57s

Raoni thinks he has jumped the start and bashes Tristan. If Tris had stayed wide (which he didn't have to do) the Brazilian might have got away with it and it is never a bad idea to leave lots of room at the start as any contact might end your race, even if you are blameless.

Raoni isn't. Unfortunately neither is the Magic one. Although he gives up early he did not take his SnG after the reset.


Server replay time: 0h03m47s

Tristan is making up ground fast and tries to undercut Fran but Fran has committed to the corner and cannot leave enough room. Tris didn't have overlap and should have backed out and taken Fran later. He was much faster and patience would have paid dividends.

This end up being somewhere between a simple and marginal side by side but it was risky.

SimRacing.org.uk Lap Records
Grand Prix Legends
GPL F2
1:26.919
111.805mph
Raoni Frizzo
Qualifying
Brabham BT23December 07, 2012, 09:38:13 PM +0000
S23F2
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Author Topic: UKGPL Season 23 (2012) Formula 2 Trophy - Jops Siffert - Dec 7  (Read 6050 times)
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roguk
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« Reply #15 on: December 08, 2012, 11:16:42 AM +0000 »

Grats to podium ..... Now the apoligies sorry to Evilclive got in your way about lap 2, sorry again to Rainer took you out on about lap 3 when exiting pits on my stop and go (prib was working fine during quall but got discoed and when returned no prib for race (is this a win7 problem?) i know lame excuse). I find racing with the Aliens is very intimidating and for me and the Aliens this is not good, they would rightly say i ruin there race. I like racing at UKGPL but for me with virtually no spare time for praccy the different driver levels need to be seperated so all drivers can enjoy there racing.
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JonnyO
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« Reply #16 on: December 08, 2012, 12:49:52 PM +0000 »

 Warning, I'm not going to win the race(HEAVY), the victory will be of Rainier.

  I made a mistake on the first lap absurd, trampling Bernie oops, sorry!!
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Rainier
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« Reply #17 on: December 08, 2012, 01:48:25 PM +0000 »

Warning, I'm not going to win the race(HEAVY), the victory will be of Rainier.

  I made a mistake on the first lap absurd, trampling Bernie oops, sorry!!

Jonny, let's wait for the moderation. We could have some surprises  Wink
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« Reply #18 on: December 08, 2012, 03:32:35 PM +0000 »

Great track (must be one of the best fantasy circuits) which often seems to produce exciting races. I was all set to take the Brabham BT23 but switched to the Mclaren at the last minute when I saw lots of other Brabs joining & thought it'd be nice to be different Tongue This was a bit of an error as I never got to grips with the Mclaren & struggled to get near my previous pace in the Brab. Lining up 9th on the grid didn't bode well for race glory but a good start & a clear path through the turn 1 incident allowed me up to 4th behind Arf, Hristo & Giovani. Had a very-near miss when Giovani went off at the fast RH bend after the esses & bounced back across the track. Up to 3rd then & Arf & Hristo looked to be having an intense battle for 1st place & with Cookie & Goran close behind me, I tried to use the tow from the leaders to help me build a cushion. Despite some errmm interesting lines down the straight from Arf's Matra, H remained glued to his rear & finally found a way through. Arf fought back but then went off at T1 which promoted me to 2nd - muhaha I thought, without Arf's tow H's puny Ferrari will be easy prey for me... except I totally got that wrong - on a clear track H went quicker than ever, instead I was now struggling to keep up!

A recovering & very quick Giovani demoted me to 3rd again but then gave me another scare when he went off in front of me at the same place as before. Then with about 10 laps to go, I caught sight of H ahead & realised he must've had a problem. This was confirmed at the end of the lap when he pulled in for a stop & go & I suddenly found myself in the lead. Expecting H to come charging back, I tried to turn up the heat a bit but no matter what I tried, I just couldn't get the Mclaren going at all. Nevertheless with H seemingly hitting more trouble & now Goran's Cooper a few seconds behind, I thought I had enough to hold on. A glance at Prib with 5 laps to go & I realised I'd been caught napping; Goran was taking huge chunks out of me & would soon be right in my slipstream! Despite my best efforts in the closing laps, Goran was way too close for comfort - I knew he'd give everything at the final corner but then he got hit from behind & that was that. If it's any consolation Goran, I looked to have just about done enough on the final lap to stay ahead but one more lap & I'd have been history. Congrats to Hristo & Clive for making it a Waza-1-2 in the championship.    

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Hristo Itchov
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« Reply #19 on: December 08, 2012, 04:00:48 PM +0000 »

Hang on a mo, Hristo

All the chat after the race was about my lines on the straights, where I make no apologies for driving in diagonals to try and stop you getting the draft from my car - it was a vain hope that I'd get away from you, as you were able to take the last 2/3 corners of the lap better than me, but I don't believe there is anything wrong with that (i.e. I wasn't blocking cos there was no way you had the grunt to pass on the straights).

Apart from that I was doing what I could to drive a consistent lap and try and stay on the black stuff. Now yes, my racecraft isn't as good as many here, so that doesn't always happen, but I draw the line at 'mad'. I noticed in practice races that there appeared to be a wide range of differing approaches to the lines in some corners and that you have to be very careful about how close you get to people. You were all over me in many corners and that can take my eye off the lines sometimes, but that's racing. I would also point out that the only time we made contact it was you that tapped me from behind, which is your responsibility - does that (and jinxing left and right looking for opportunities) make you mad? No - it made you as determined to get past me as I was to keep you behind me - not in any sense of illegal blocking, just that I was having to drive bloody hard to try and be quick enough.

Arf


I wasn't accusing you of anything other than driving like a madman, Arf.  Grin What I meant was you were constantly swerving heavily on the straights to try and break the tow, but I didn't say you were blocking me or something, because you weren't. I also meant that you were almost always going beyond your limit in corners, sliding around, clipping dirt edges on the exits and so on, so more like "mad" in a funny good way. I do admit however that I was irritated by that and that we both lost time by it. In my opinion you would have been more efficient if you just drove normally, because I didn't really have any real means of passing you. You saw yourself how easy it was for you to pass me back on the straight.

...But I really prefered this kind of race with combined grids than boring race with only 6 or 7 cars when you are driving alone during 90% of the time.  


It's too random, hazardous and leads to unrealistic results in the championship. It may be "fun", but it's not my kind of fun really. I'd say it was more frustrating than it was fun. On the other hand we have rules and penalties may sort out overly-aggressive driving, but it still doesn't make up for any bad results someone may have because of the sheer difference in pace between some drivers and the subsequent risk of incidents.

From the perspective of those who are usually in the lead, it's a bad thing, but I can see how it's a good thing from the point of view of people who are usually near the back, because it gives them more chances to make up positions. I don't really see the benefit though. You rarely race against more than 2-3 people who have the same pace as you, the rest are either non-existent or backmarkers, or traffic in qualifying, or people you have to let by when the lap you.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2012, 04:07:38 PM +0000 by Hristo Itchov » Logged

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« Reply #20 on: December 08, 2012, 06:05:51 PM +0000 »

Remember that people make mistakes. Big grids give you more chances for an actual race afther a mistake.
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« Reply #21 on: December 08, 2012, 06:26:32 PM +0000 »

Remember that people make mistakes. Big grids give you more chances for an actual race afther a mistake.

It's not about normal mistakes, but forced mistakes due to difference in pace between drivers who would normally be put in different divisions. Yesterday's race was a clear indication it doesn't work well.
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« Reply #22 on: December 08, 2012, 06:39:24 PM +0000 »

I wasn't racing yesterday, but from what I've read problem wasn't in the speed difference(witch IMO for experienced drivers shouldn't be a big problem), but in lack of racecraft. And racecraft can be taught a lot easier than speed Wink
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« Reply #23 on: December 08, 2012, 07:10:32 PM +0000 »

I wasn't racing yesterday, but from what I've read problem wasn't in the speed difference(witch IMO for experienced drivers shouldn't be a big problem), but in lack of racecraft. And racecraft can be taught a lot easier than speed Wink

Perhaps, but it's related, because in their effort to close up the gap, drivers push beyond their safe margins. It's also a matter of keeping in control, of not panicking, of driving your own race. Those things are best taught in a more relaxed environment though, not in a hectic race with a mixed grid.
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Phil Thornton
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« Reply #24 on: December 08, 2012, 09:31:54 PM +0000 »

Well that was a crazy race from my perspective.  I must have done 5 Shift Rs and S&Gs; I'll check later.  I got caught up in the mayhem at T1 on L1 and ended up loosing a lot of time.  I needed a decent draft to keep my Ferrari with the pack but there was nobody in sight and without prib I had no idea what position I was in.  I pushed hard to try and catch up but I just ended up overdriving the car and making mistakes.  I dropped further and further back as the shift-Rs and S&Gs took their toll.  At the end I had a great battle with Billy but I pushed a bit too hard and crashed on the last lap.  I had nothing to loose so it was worth pushing hard (without putting Bill at risk of course Wink ).

I found the mixed grid distracting.  There was far too much going on for me to know where my real competition was.  Having aliens in much faster cars just made things worse.  I don't think I got in anyones way but at one stage I got rear ended at the "jump".  I think that was simply down to my relatively slow pace, but I was trying my best, honest!!  Smiley

Grats to Jonny on the provisional win and to David if he inherits it after the moderating.

I have enjoyed this series.  I hope we run it again next season but with a few tweaks to the handicapping (like only being restricted to the BT14 or Ferrari if the championship leader has a large lead).
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« Reply #25 on: December 09, 2012, 07:11:37 AM +0000 »

Quote from: BNBB
The F2 season draws to a close at Jops Siffert, a fantasy track in the Swiss mountains as a tribute to Jo Siffert

As I was passing by to see what's going on in the UKGPL, I noticed your Jops Siffert Intro and I feel I should correct it as a mark of respect for Jops.

It is not related to Jo Siffert which I liked a lot btw, he was a star with the 908s . I saw him in 69 at Brands Hatch and he gave quite a show. Who would have thought this day that he would die at the same place 2 years later ...
Jops  was one of the creator of F1Legends in 2001. He was very dedicated to the league and his enthusiasm for GPL was apparently very contagious. He was involved in circuits design and was acting to bring back closed circuit racing in Switzerland. He died in 2001 from a heart attack after an intense karting session in Fribourg. He was 40 years old.
The circuit was designed in memoriam. Closed circuit racing is back in Switzerland !
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« Reply #26 on: December 09, 2012, 09:42:15 PM +0000 »

hi Smiley
 ......where Ican find the reaplay !?.

...thx 
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Billy Nobrakes
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« Reply #27 on: December 09, 2012, 11:20:01 PM +0000 »

hi Smiley
 ......where Ican find the reaplay !?.

...thx 
Tristan - Replay should be here http://ukgpl3.dyndns.org/inc_replaysS23_js.aspx

Looking at the various comments the mixed grid wasn't the best idea. I tend to find that grids of less than 10 cars feel a bit empty. We ran the same format at Bremgarten without any complaints. Perhaps the layout of this track (particularly the pit lane exit) was an unfounate combination.

Personally I think the F2 is a great mod & the plan is to run them again, taking into account some of the lessons from the debut season e.g. handicaps & mixed grids.
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Billy Nobrakes
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« Reply #28 on: December 09, 2012, 11:22:03 PM +0000 »

Quote from: BNBB
The F2 season draws to a close at Jops Siffert, a fantasy track in the Swiss mountains as a tribute to Jo Siffert

As I was passing by to see what's going on in the UKGPL, I noticed your Jops Siffert Intro and I feel I should correct it as a mark of respect for Jops.
Pierre - apologies for the misunderstanding on my part! It is, nonetheless, a very good track.
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MagicArsouille
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« Reply #29 on: January 11, 2013, 12:21:13 PM +0000 »

thx Billy Smiley....I have post for the incident....

....after the crash at T1 , I have to do shift-r, and lost many time ,so I try to come back as quick as I can to the front of the race .....but I have to SandG and the track is full of cars .....and to pit-in Ihave to slow down in the straight .... quite dangerous with all this trafic ....and also very long time to wait till the track is free to retake the track......so I decide to wait one or 2 laps for my SandG.....and I hit F.Molteni who unfortunatly is not fair play enought to let the room free ....or maybe he don't race with Pribluda !?...anyway it's my fault I must wait the straight line to over pass him  ...ok !
.....it's at this momment that I saw my fuel in red !!???.....hell ! I have only 5 laps fuel .....mistake in the garage !!....then I stop my race .....:/
....sorry for that bad race .....
...and my question is : do we have to do shift-r immédiately after the crash or we can do it with a delay Huh
because if , like this race , a big crash append at T1 and 3 or 4 or more cars have to do shift-r....every body have to SandG in the same time .....look's like Tchernobyl .....!!! laugh
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