UKPnG Season 7 North American Cup - Trois-Rivieres - Dec 20

[Wiltshire Tony]

I generally start thinking about the following seasons series in June/July. The ideas for series are based on several factors but usually are sparked by new cars available that I like to try, historical series that we can replicate, drivers asking for a particular car/venue, a country that has a good selection of circuits or a what if in 19?? these cars used the same circuits as that years F1 series. Many ideas never reach fruition but I try to create at least four series for variety. I also try to blend a good mix of favourite circuits with new ones. I often rely heavily on drivers assistance ( 's) when I need to check on comparative times etc and without their help I'd be struggling. I am unable to properly research car times and frankly a large chunk of time can be consumed just trying to get two or three cars that have relative performance times to each other. That is why I tend to offer some series with a fixed choice of cars and let the drivers sought out which is the best, 2nd best etc. I also favour adding a strategic element where the car choice might be restricted by either handicapping or no. off drives in each. This does, I'll admit, make series very easy for me to setup, but does allow me time to research tracks etc. However I acknowledge that some here find this approach detrimental to their enjoyment which is not what I set out to do. But drivers need to consider that free time comes at a premium and admins do have other commitments to balance. Matt is on the right track as he has some themes for series already in place. Sometimes that is the toughest part.
Perhaps he could ask every driver to pm him with two tracks that they would love to race in the new 70's cars and he could assign either all the GR.2 or GR.4 cars to be available at every race. This would be quick to setup and would buy him some "development" time  
Just my two-penneth.

[phspok]

Comments noted and appreciated.
Dropping the closely matched cars is a big time saver, there needs to be a sensible mix
for a series, but it's a big time saver if the drivers pick a car they like rather than
me having to spend hours testing cars, and still not get a good match for aliens.

I do like to put in the occasional "new" track to mix it up a bit.
I remember in Descent everyone knew and did Minerva and was a good "one we all know"
but it was good to throw in maps that people had recently created.

[Mark J]

Hope the GC guys don't mind but they have saved you some donkey work with their online race testing with full servers for several weeks. I'm intending to race GC on Tuesdays and here Thursdays. 

Here is their determined car groupings:-
http://www.gamers-crib.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12602

 

[Clive Loynes]

Group C is the troublesome one for me.

All those Renault and Alfa drivers ramming the Vettes etc. at mid corner.  Not good.   

[phspok]

Thanks MJ

I have run in Mogget's events before,. and the car groups are Wayyyyyyyyy toooooo wide
for what we traditionally do here. Is an easy life for me if I just use those similar groups for
the series, but I would like to get something more refined if I can.
The Beemers and the Porkas for example are very different in PG3 across the models
If I just say "BMW any" and "911 any" as he does everyone would take the RSR3.0
and the BMW24v latest model. Likewise the Alfas, Capris, and Escorts. GT40s are very different
and most people would take the Gulf given a free choice.
If that's what people want, I can do that very easily.

I suppose I could start the seasons with a wide spread and thin it out to the more comparable ones
as the season progresses. It is certainly a good guide to base things on, thanks for that.

[Clive Loynes]

What about, as Tony suggested, if you say that the winning car at each round is removed from the list?  At least for those in the top half of the table?

And new starters are regarded as aliens until proven otherwise!  

And we are all in TR4s for the last round.

[Wiltshire Tony]

What about, as Tony suggested, if you say that the winning car at each round is removed from the list?  At least for those in the top half of the table?

And new starters are regarded as aliens until proven otherwise!  

And we are all in TR4s for the last round.

The winning car or the most popular choice

[phspok]

Similar to Geoffers suggestions on No grip
I like this guys, this is getting easier by the hour  

I am going to do a short Lotus 7 series as well, the tracks will be as suitable as
I can find. Not a mainstay series perhaps, but It appeals to my "historic" leanings

A "series for the people by the people" heard something like that somewhere before  

Or "you can't please all the people all of the time" a long proven adage on here 

[Wiltshire Tony]

A "series for the people by the people" heard something like that somewhere before  

You may also of heard "you can please some of the people some of the time"

[Mark J]

Thanks MJ

I have run in Mogget's events before,. and the car groups are Wayyyyyyyyy toooooo wide
for what we traditionally do here. Is an easy life for me if I just use those similar groups for
the series, but I would like to get something more refined if I can.
The Beemers and the Porkas for example are very different in PG3 across the models
If I just say "BMW any" and "911 any" as he does everyone would take the RSR3.0
and the BMW24v latest model. Likewise the Alfas, Capris, and Escorts. GT40s are very different
and most people would take the Gulf given a free choice.
If that's what people want, I can do that very easily.

I suppose I could start the seasons with a wide spread and thin it out to the more comparable ones
as the season progresses. It is certainly a good guide to base things on, thanks for that.

Well I'd use his wide groups as a base point but whittle them down into what you think are more competitive groupings. Also, as mentioned before, disallow any clear advantage cars (or their variant)...ie gulf gt40 etc. apart from one off special races, enduros etc.
Not sure I like the idea of removing a winning car from the next race unless its clearly way superior to others in its group. He has actually put some beemers & porkas etc in different groups based on the test race results.

[goldtop]

It always seems to be tough getting good PnG seasons together, but here's my thoughts...

Car choice needs to be reasonably close per event imho otherwise some drivers will naturally gravitate towards fastest car available and lead to boring grids.

The GC list seems to be a decent starting point for testing and it would be nice if there was at least some loose historical context to the selections. A different series for 60's, 70's and a spec series (I gather the Lotus7 has been earmarked for this) would be great.

Please keep the track selection simple as these tend to produce better racing. In particular try to avoid any assault course like tracks as for me they become a bit playstation.

Shout up for any specific testing required....I'm sure there are lots here that would help out.

[phspok]

I am trying to create some series at the moment. I am having trouble with LM2 or perhaps me being dumb.
When I get through that obstacle I will start putting up races.

I have tried to allow for an average of peoples suggestions, Huge thanks for those who made an input  
there are a quite a few conflicting opinions though so if you don't get exactly what you want please don't flame me.

Some people like a mix of cars that are fast on the straight with ones that are faster round corners than straights
if I do that, Colin complains every time about roller skates getting rammed or the other way round.
MJ has even complained about the colour of the grass  

Example is Beranovac, which I really enjoyed, though would probably be better for smaller cars than we used.
I got more comments from people (some PMs) about how much they liked it than people who didn't.
So what do I do? Unless a track or track/car combo was seriously dire, and unusable, I would go with the majority
Beranovac will probably get used for something sometime in 2013. Actually I PM'd the creator asking for permission
and he hasn't replied yet, so it may get shelved, we have plenty of other good tracks to use.
ANyway, just an example, see how we go, things can always be fine tuned over the series.
Not sure about handicap series, too much admin for me. I will likely be dropping cars that turn out to be too fast at
most tracks for the group they are in. Otherwise I think we are going to have some great races  
As always if you want something to happen, PM me, particularly good track/car combos you believe would work well.
I can probably fit any combos into one of the up coming series.

Also, it is really really really unbelievably helpful if people PM me some times for as many cars as possible at
a medium speed track like Portimao or Brands Hatch perhaps. Ideally I could make good use of times for all cars at the same track
If anyone has a few hours spare.... pick a track and run as many cars as you can in the same group. Use Gamers Crib groupings if
you need some clues, but any times will help make the series better sooner. I have already had a couple of PMs from people
and I have used those to good effect immediately. Thanks in Advance  

[Clive Loynes]

Some people like a mix of cars that are fast on the straight with ones that are faster round corners than straights
if I do that, Colin complains every time about roller skates getting rammed or the other way round.

Colin here,

The thing about the mix of cars is that I have yet to find a group of sim racers who are actually good enough at it to make it work!

Apologies are all well and good but your race is still in the bin.  We do not have enough field of view to know when someone in an agile car is "pressuring" you mid corner.  You can't "lean" on someone who can't see you, until it's too late. 

I promise not to say it again.

Well, I'll try.

[phspok]

LOL   (Was an old joke, but it's Holiday time so I am being flippant, sorry)

I don't disagree, I just think that cars with different characteristics and similar times
can make for good racing - up to a point. It ties our hands a lot if we have to filter cars out
because they have better brakes than another one, as well as all the other aspects we
have to allow for. It is "one" of the things Tony and I try to take into account.

[goldtop]

Well I like a mix of car types.

I always tend to go for more agile cars when available and have enjoyed great battles with both Clive and Matt (among others) in their more tank like machines. I think we are all old enough and wise enough to avoid mid corner mishaps particularly as we are now so familiar with each others driving styles. I wasn't aware that there was a great problem with this, but as Clive says the mods are there for those who don't abide.