UKGPL Season 24 (2013) Historic Trophy (66) - Watkins Glen - Jan 15

[Artiglietti]

Lol Hristo, you have now gone off completely into ranting mode, I struggle to follow your logic. Must be the first time in the history of the league in which someone is accused of giving too much room in the first corners of a race, though..Anyway, I wrote already what I think in my previous posts, I believe it is explained in a clear enough way, so if you ever wake up one day wanting to actually listen to a point of view different from your own, you can read them again with a cooler mind. As for me, I will continue to give plenty of room to other cars if I am not sure where they are, and I will continue to go around the corners at the speed I feel I can handle safely. At least, now you know it, so you cant say this is unpredictable behaviour...After all, I have started from pole half the races I took part to, and this is the first incident of this kind that occurs to me, it means my driving style on lap 1 must be possible to handle for others...

Well, I wished I would have been more caoutious and braked earlier in that corner.

Yep mate, I know what you mean. If it is of any consolation, I think anyone who has ever played this game has had at least one crash which is a carbon copy of the one you had, me included. 

On a lighter note, I took some time to download the server replay and look at the crash. Now, really, I do know it shouldnt be. But there is something hilarious to it. We had a full house, 19 cars. I flipped backwards through each one of them. Well, except me and Bernie, no one else managed to go through the carnage without hitting something. Not a single car. You see them approaching the corner and you think 'will this one make it..? Missed, MISSED...oh'.  I think Tristan got a nudge from just about every other car in the field, as he was sitting with not many wheels in the middle of the track. When I turn into the last corner, theres still cars trying to extricate themselves at the Loop..I mean, the proportions are epic. This is the material proof of the 'batterfly effect', applied to GPL. 'Given the start of a race, a wobble at the front creates an out-of-scale increase in the amount of entropy through the rest of the field, with catastrophic consequences'. We would need a name for it. The Artiglietti-Itchov effect?     

[bernie]

LOL Gotta take a lookie at this one 

[Hristo Itchov]

Art, unless you actually address what I wrote, in the same manner I did with what you wrote (denying that goes to show you didn't read my post), it's pointless to discuss anything. It wasn't a rant at all, it was addressing to cover specific points in your posts and in what happens on the track.

[BadBlood]

WOW - I have now looked at the replay - carnage. Reminds me of Keimola a few years ago.

Lucky we took the less powerful two litre cars or there could have been some crashes 

[Rainier]

Moderation report done.

[Hristo Itchov]

WHAT THE HELL IS THIS ABOUT? I'm really getting tired of this stupidity! I didn't rearend Art at all, I didn't touch him at all, it was only I WAS rearended that my car went into his. He wobbled on his own, by losing control on his own, you can even read that in his report where he admits it. You have to be blind not to realize that. Have you REALLY watched the replay or are you just making things up?

If this is how this season's moderation is going to be after all the ridiculous rulings of last season, I might as well not participate!  

I know you're a newly appointed moderator, Dave, but for me this is a continuation from the past season (and some of season 21) where things are not viewed objectively, whether by lack of attention or racing experience, so I find it very frustrating to having to deal with such kind of things.

[BadBlood]

If you look at the server replay Hristo, there is a reasonably heavy contact between you and Art before Tris hits you. If your client replay shows different let me know and it would, of course, change.

[Rainier]

WHAT THE HELL IS THIS ABOUT? I'm really getting tired of this stupidity! I didn't rearend Art at all, I didn't touch him at all, it was only I WAS rearended that my car went into his. He wobbled on his own, by losing control on his own, you can even read that in his report where he admits it. You have to be blind not to realize that. Have you REALLY watched the replay or are you just making things up?

If this is how this season's moderation is going to be after all the ridiculous rulings of last season, I might as well not participate!  

I know you're a newly appointed moderator, Dave, but for me this is a continuation from the past season (and some of season 21) where things are not viewed objectively, whether by lack of attention or racing experience, so I find it very frustrating to having to deal with such kind of things.

Hristo, if you don't agree with the moderation, you can (and you must) make an appeal.

On the server replay, there is clearly a contact between your car and Attilio's car.
I only gave you a "caution" although it happened during the 1st lap and on the red zone.
We are running in mod "PRO" and we all know how GPL could react when there is a contact.  

Yes I am a newly moderator ...since begin of season 23, (I was Privateers mod67 moderator last season) but I also received several points of view from other moderators with more experience than me.

But once again, do not hesitate to make an appeal and to give your detailed reasons and arguments.

[Pierre D]

Considering the amount of work the modo has to face, I'm not asking for any official change in the sanctions but after watching the replay from both the TV1 and TV2 cameras, it is clear that it is Cooper who's hitting me several times and not the opposite.
The most amazing thing as far far as I'm concerned is the fact that he's not even on the long list of penalized drivers. 
Does it have anything to do with the fact that the 1st car I hit in the stampede is the moderator's ? 

[Hristo Itchov]

If you look at the server replay Hristo, there is a reasonably heavy contact between you and Art before Tris hits you. If your client replay shows different let me know and it would, of course, change.

There's no contact at all, I was just very close to him but his car is sliding because of his mistake, not because I have touched him. If I had touched him he would change direction and spin a lot more suddenly, which obviously doesn't happen until Tristan collects me. You can't judge whether someone rearends another simply by looking at it visually, it may appear that the cars are into each other yet they are not in contact, due to lag/warp, so unless there is an actual abrupt change in direction and rotation, there is no contact. I didn't think of including my client replay because I thought it's so obvious, but I guess to some people it isn't.  

I don't really see the point of filing an appeal every single time, because it means something needs to be changed in the way incidents are moderated initially, instead of always going through appeals to sort things out. It's rather unnerving.

[BadBlood]

@1:14 you clearly hit Attilio and his speed increases, @1:15 you are hit by Tristan. There is clear overlap on the server replay which several of us have gone through frame by frame. To say you can't judge whether there is contact on visuals alone may have some small merit (but it is usually clear enough) but if you look at the very abrupt increase in speed in Attilios car and the decrease in yours it is clear that some contact has been modelled.

[Hristo Itchov]

@1:14 you clearly hit Attilio and his speed increases, @1:15 you are hit by Tristan. There is clear overlap on the server replay which several of us have gone through frame by frame. To say you can't judge whether there is contact on visuals alone may have some small merit (but it is usually clear enough) but if you look at the very abrupt increase in speed in Attilios car and the decrease in yours it is clear that some contact has been modelled.

How can you say with 100% certainty that his speed increases because of me and not because of him applying throttle after he lost a lot of speed due to his wobble? On my replay it is unclear whether he accelerates on his own or that I nudge him, as his car suddenly jumps a few meters ahead due to warp. Also, his speed before that warp jump and after that is about the same, and the only increase happens for a split second in between, going from about 130 to 150 and back to 130 km/h. It's difficult to judge really because it goes against normal acceleration and deceleration rate.

In any case, you can't call it a rearend at all, considering it was his mistake that led to a possible contact rather than me simply giving him nudge just like that. It's nothing more than a racing incident without fault applied to anyone, due to Art's unforced mistake and those behind him being caught out by it. To not mention him at all in the moderation as if he has no role in what happens shows a clear lack of objectivity.

[BadBlood]

There is absolutely no evidence of warp at all. The car movement is predictable and the most logical, and reasonable, interpretation is that you hit him. Anything else is supposition.

[bernie]

Well done David, thanks for your hard work 

[Artiglietti]

Yes H, you did hit me, although it was a very slight tap and wasnt enough to make me spin. it wasnt me re-accelerating. I even felt it through the FFB, although it was very weak. I think what ignited the big crunch was Tristan though, who couldnt see I was struggling with the car as it was covered by yours, and went confidently down the slope just to find your car that had been slowed down by the contact/heavy braking. Otherwise you wouldnt have spun either and we would have gone through, IMO. I think Dave was very good at recognizing it, actually (a warning is heavier a penalty than a caution). As for me not being mentioned in the moderation, imprecise braking is not usually penalised, as long as you dont hit anyone. We are back to square one, a little more distance approaching the corner (like for instance Clive was doing), would have saved the race for many. As, of course, a better braking on my side. I will try to be more precise in the future, but precision is more difficult to control than the distance from cars ahead of you, when you approach a corner in traffic.