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  • P8BHC Castle Combe: March 28, 2013
March 28, 2013, 08:53:17 PM +0000 - Castle Combe - UKPnG Season 8 British Historic Cup
Driver
 Team
Nat. Make Model Class Qualifying Race
Tyres Pos Time/Gap Pos Time/Gap Laps Stops Best Retirement
reason
Ballast
frex
 Kerb Crawlers
Ford Escort TC (60s) (#69094) P&G Group 5 1 1:14.316
89.721mph
1 38:06.982
87.465mph
30 1:14.876
89.050mph
Dunlop  
johnw
 Soggy Bottom Racers Club
Ford Escort TC (60s) (#68036) P&G Group 5 6 +1.023
88.503mph
2 +0.418
87.449mph
30 1:15.370
88.466mph
Dunlop  
goldtop
 Kerb Crawlers
Alfa Romeo GTA (#67044) {unknown} 2 +0.879
88.672mph
3 +12.619
86.985mph
30 1:15.721
88.056mph
Dunlop  
SuperSWIFT
 
Ford Escort TC (60s) (#68036) P&G Group 5 5 +1.021
88.505mph
4 +18.487
86.764mph
30 1:15.944
87.798mph
Dunlop  
Clive Loynes
 Soggy Bottom Racers Club
Alfa Romeo Giulia 1750 GTAm (#70098) P&G 70s Gr2 U2L 7 +1.045
88.477mph
5 +21.720
86.642mph
30 1:15.432
88.394mph
Firestone  
Animal Ed
 
Ford Falcon (#68090) P&G Group 5 9 +1.463
87.989mph
6 +36.200
86.102mph
30 1:15.975
87.762mph
Dunlop  
NPP
 Team Oldie Racing
Ford Escort TC (60s) (#69094) P&G Group 5 4 +0.954
88.584mph
7 +48.316
85.655mph
30 1:15.472
88.347mph
Dunlop  
Mark J
 Legends Racing
Ford Escort TC (60s) (#69094) P&G Group 5 8 +1.345
88.126mph
8 +55.111
85.407mph
30 1:16.135
87.577mph
Dunlop  
Geoffers
 Kerb Crawlers
Ford Falcon (#68043) P&G Group 5 3 +0.949
88.590mph
9 +1:00.439
85.213mph
30 1:16.199
87.504mph
Dunlop  
Alex vV
 Gentlemen Drivers Club
FIAT Abarth TC1000 Gr5 (#69041) P&G Group 5 14 +9.485
79.566mph
10 +3L
76.010mph
27 1:23.697
79.665mph
Dunlop  
Legzy
 Team Oldie Racing
Alfa Romeo Giulia 1750 GTAm (#70001) P&G 70s Gr2 U2L 10 +1.467
87.984mph
11 +10L 20 1:15.642
88.148mph
suspension
Firestone  
SpecialKS
 Soggy Bottom Racers Club
Alfa Romeo Giulia 1750 GTAm (#70003) P&G 70s Gr2 U2L 13 +3.521
85.662mph
12 +22L 8 1:18.066
85.411mph
suspension
Dunlop  
Wiltshire Tony
 Toyland Racing
Ford Escort TC (60s) (#69094) P&G Group 5 13 +23L 7 1:19.261
84.123mph
unknown
Dunlop  
phspok
 Team Pseudo Racing
Ford Falcon (#68104) P&G Group 5 12 +3.066
86.166mph
14 +24L 6 1:17.650
85.869mph
engine
Dunlop  
simon loynes
 Soggy Bottom Racers Club
Ford Escort TC (60s) (#68036) P&G Group 5 11 +2.289
87.040mph
+30L 0 ---
---
unknown
Dunlop  

Moderator's Report

Frex admits to a cut at a chicane and feels that an unfair advantage over an opponent was taken as a result.
We cannot judge "what might of been" but no penalty for the cut is awarded as it's judged a one off.

  • frexcaution — One cut at chicane is not considered worthy of a penalty

SimRacing.org.uk Lap Records
GTR2
P&G Group 5
1:14.316
89.721mph
frex
Qualifying
Ford Escort TC (60s)March 28, 2013, 08:53:17 PM +0000
P8BHC
GTR2
P&G Group 5
1:14.876
89.050mph
frex
Race
Ford Escort TC (60s)March 28, 2013, 08:53:17 PM +0000
P8BHC
GTR2
P&G 70s Gr2 U2L
1:15.361
88.477mph
Clive Loynes
Qualifying
Alfa Romeo Giulia 1750 GTAm March 28, 2013, 08:53:17 PM +0000
P8BHC
GTR2
P&G 70s Gr2 U2L
1:15.432
88.394mph
Clive Loynes
Race
Alfa Romeo Giulia 1750 GTAm March 28, 2013, 08:53:17 PM +0000
P8BHC
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Author Topic: UKPnG Season 8 British Historic Cup - Castle Combe - Mar 28  (Read 10426 times)
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phspok
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« on: February 16, 2013, 08:16:19 PM +0000 »


*** This will be using the Simbin lobby ***
Make sure your LOCAL _IP_LOBBY.TXT file contains gtr2server1.gtr-evolution.com
Some have found that they can get straight in. Others have had to change their username or password or re-register

Race Start: Go on GREEN LIGHTS
Practice: 19:20 (GMT) (65 mins)
Qual 2: 20:25 (20 mins)
Race: 20:45 ~ (30 laps)
Cars allowed: Alfa 1750, Alfa 1600, Mini Cooper (ALL), Ford Falcon Sprint, Ford Mustang BSCC Gr2, Escort-TC 8v (36 and 94 only), Arbarth Gr5.

Track: Castle Combe 2005 Download and install this
Time of Day Setting: 13:00
Weather: Dry
Start: Standing

Tyre wear: Normal
Fuel consumption: Normal
Pit-stops: None required

Server: simracing.org.uk BHC
Password: see above

Championship Standings

Notes:
(1) It's best if all drivers can make sure they are connected before the Qualifying session as drivers on track during qualifying will not see
cars that join after they are on track until they go back to the garage.
(2) Please make sure you are fully aware of the SimRacing.org.uk Rules especially the
rules about in-game chat messages.
(3) You will need to install Power and Glory v3 from:  http://gtlw-blog.flyingpig.info/
(4) P&G has no 'Pit Speed Limiter' function.You may go as fast as you like in the pits, but please exercise caution. Penalties will be handed out for causing contact in the pit lane. Use your best judgement when making your pitstop during the race.

(5) Please follow the SROUK guidelines for using kerbs etc. Please keep 2 wheels on the track surface (kerbs do not count as track surface)
Excessive cutting of corners will seen as cheating and the results may be altered to reflect that.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2013, 11:57:03 AM +0000 by phspok » Logged

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phspok
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« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2013, 02:33:06 PM +0000 »

Standard SROUK Rules apply. 4 wheels on the grass at the chicanes is unacceptable.
Occasional outside wheels on the inside grey kerbs will be ignored.
"Drivers are strongly discouraged from the deliberate placing of one or more wheels on areas of grass, gravel and sand."

Warning: There is a particularly tight cut track warning on the inside of the exit of the 1st chicane, it also seems to
be a bit variable. Putting a wheel over (or sometimes on) the kerb there WILL get you a cut track warning
possibly leading to a drive through or black flag.  hang
The only safe line is to not put any wheels on the kerb at that point.

Cuts will be on. Please do a few laps on line to see where it is, and drive accordingly  death If you get black flagged you know why.

« Last Edit: March 23, 2013, 04:30:53 PM +0000 by phspok » Logged

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Clive Loynes
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« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2013, 03:19:32 PM +0000 »

(5) Please follow the SROUK guidelines for using kerbs etc. Please keep 2 wheels on the track surface (kerbs do not count as track surface)
Excessive cutting of corners will seen as cheating and the results may be altered to reflect that.


Didn't think that the font was big enough.   Roll Eyes


EDIt by moderator, excessive use of font size  Tongue
« Last Edit: March 23, 2013, 04:28:40 PM +0000 by phspok » Logged

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« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2013, 03:44:36 PM +0000 »

 laugh
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phspok
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« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2013, 04:06:46 PM +0000 »

 lol lol lol lol lol lol lol

Behave Clive.  Grin

Apparantly Clive was a good boy in Hungary  angel, while John and Geoffers were "exploring the limits of the track" rather more.

This one is more obvious, there is Track, then a small kerb, then grass, the grass is the GREEN stuff, in case
anyone wants that confirming.

NOTE: Arbarth Gr5 added as the mini is too slow, and the Arbarth in the right hands could mix it with the others quite well.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2013, 04:15:27 PM +0000 by phspok » Logged

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Clive Loynes
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« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2013, 11:05:38 PM +0000 »


Warning: There is a particularly tight cut track warning on the inside of the exit of the 1st chicane, it also seems to
be a bit variable. Putting a wheel over (or sometimes on) the kerb there WILL get you a cut track warning
possibly leading to a drive through or black flag.  hang
The only safe line is to not put any wheels on the kerb at that point.

Interesting.

You sure it's on the exit, I thought it was on the entry.

That might explain the variability.
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phspok
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« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2013, 01:56:50 AM +0000 »

It seems to matter exactly what your line is as to how harsh it is. There may be a cut on the 1st part, the right hander
but there is definitely a cut if you put a wheel over the kerb on the 2nd part - the inside of the left hander.
depending on the angle you approach, it may give a cut if you just touch the kerb, so my advice is don't.

The 2nd chicane is less fussy. I was tempted to turn cuts off, but I have done lots of laps without a cut
once I realised when it happened, and if I can do it then so can everyone else as long as they know about it.
I can see a lot of complaints after the race about it. No reason to complain, just avoid that kerb  Grin
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simon loynes
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« Reply #7 on: March 24, 2013, 08:14:07 PM +0000 »

No times posted yet so I've no idea if i'm my usual 3 seconds off the pace. I've managed a 1:18.1 on the server in praccy mode in car number 36 which means my rotten brother will be in the 15s
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Clive Loynes
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« Reply #8 on: March 24, 2013, 10:04:08 PM +0000 »

Well he is now in front of you in the PlanetF1 Fantasy League.   Tongue
 lol lol lol
« Last Edit: March 24, 2013, 10:06:04 PM +0000 by Clive Loynes » Logged

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phspok
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« Reply #9 on: March 25, 2013, 01:37:24 PM +0000 »

I managed 1:17.5 in the Alfa, low 1:18's in the Escorts, mid 18's and up for the Yank tanks, and low 20's for the Arbarth.

All near default settings and race fuel
« Last Edit: March 25, 2013, 04:54:21 PM +0000 by phspok » Logged

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Animal Ed
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« Reply #10 on: March 25, 2013, 01:51:24 PM +0000 »

Average 1:16 flat ... fastest so far 1:15:3 with alfa. Similar situation with escort ... but I`we done only 5 laps each with available cars. Slowest 1:19 with britax mini (fastest one because of tires) and abarth ...

No suspicious points on track to report for "interpreting the rules" - just live cones (or whatever you call that pillars on chicanes) where they are.
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Manteos
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« Reply #11 on: March 25, 2013, 05:46:17 PM +0000 »

I just finished a little training session offline, cause your server was not in lobby yet. I didn't know this track, cause I never raced here, but I like it. I picked the 2 italian cars on the list, Abarth & Alfa 1750 GTAM to learn the circuit. When I saw the car choice list, I was a bit surprised about the variety of the cars in terms of performance on some standard circuit, and reading the laptime posted by Simon, after some laps, I understood that Abarth and Minis, would be surely totally cutted off by the leading position. This track has too much straights to let the Abarth and Minis to be competitive for a good placement. I was on mid 19 in it, with the chance to cut not more than 1 second (probably less) to this time in race trim.
Then I jumped on the Alfa 1750, and it was sensibly faster on race pace than the Abarth. My best lap in race trim was a 1.14.2 at the moment, with not so much to improve I guess.

Talking about the white line, I just discovered that the cut detection is absolutely arbitrarily in this track. After reading Matt's post I deliberately tried to cut as much as possible the left hander at the exit of the chicane, and in my "outlaw" lap, I managed a 1.13.9 (absolutely illegal for you rules), but despite I jumped with two wheels on the grass and 2 on the kerb, the game didn't canceled my lap. In some other laps at the opposite, even if I was with the 2 wheels inside/on the white line and 2 on the kerb (that you consider legal), the game decided to cancel my lap with no reason apparently.
So now seems that your rules passed from "put no wheels outside the white lines" to an even worse, "The only safe line is to not put any wheels on the kerb at that point.", that sorry guys, but I find pretty ridicolous if we are here to RACE, even more if the detection cut is absolutely arbitrarily as I stated, and reading Matt's and Clive's posts is clear that you have two different views of where the cut detenction is, and your statements clashes with the other. I'm sure as Matt that the cut detenction is on the left hander, but I'll post you my outlaw lap, just to let you understand what I mean for arbitrarily cut detenction. I don't want to know what could happen if someone will receive a cut warning just cause he was door to door with someone at that chicane. It could become an hilarious situation.
Never heard about a marshal that forces the drivers to avoid a kerb in any circuit, and this time I really disagree with what you stated in your post Matt. Even more, seems that you missed something of my previous posts of Hungaroring in which I stated: "Evenmore you won't need any further marshall to control the other drivers behaviour, cause it's up to a driver that complains about the others breaking the rules to submit a complaint for track cutting. Nobody is asking to someone to watch all the race of every driver."
So, if you need someone that watch the replays for cutting after someone will submit an incident report, here I am, or you can simply give the work to Clive, that likes so much to watch the replays of his opponents to see how many centimeters they stolen to the track lenght.
I have to add a couple of things yet.
I quote you Matt: "My simple "Rule" is: Keep two wheels on the track surface on most laps." This rule does not clarify nothing. What does it mean this rule? What does it mean "most"? It means that you have to drive at least the 75%, the 80%, the 85%, the 90% of your laps "legally"? Does it mean that you can't cut the track more than 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, etc. times? What does it mean? Huh
It's not difficult to make a rule for this kind of issue. If you give sense to that word "most" in terms of a percentage it becomes a very simple and OBJECTIVE rule. Example: race is 20 laps. the "most" percentage is 80%, so you are legal if you do not more than 4 cuts during the race. That's it.
Another example. Race is 22 laps. percentage of legal laps is still 80%. (22/100) x 80 = 17.6 you can round up/down that value to 17 or 18 laps. So if I cut more than 4/5 times, my drive will be considered illegal, and I could be penalized for that behaviour if someone will submit an incident report. The penalty could be done in terms of points, places lost or even in terms of seconds added to the race time, you decide. It could be gived in this way. Restarting by my first example: (20 laps - 80% of legal laps). If I cut 6 times during a race, I should receive 2 points for any further cut after the 4. In this case, I should receive 4 points of penalty. Same is with the places lost: You will lose a position for any further cut after the 4th. So, if I have 7 cuts, I will lost 3 places in the race.
All very simple and objective.
A Championship rule is like a law. You cannot take decision arbitrarily.  The rule regards every driver in the same way, and if you do not use an objevtive rules, we will follow to read sentence like this "Anyone want to claim to have stayed between the white lines?" before the congratulations, as Clive did in Imola just after he passed the finish line, without even watching the replay. What is it? That remember me the movie "Minority Report" in which the precogs predict crimes before they had actually happended. I'm just tired about reading Clive's "charges" after every race, and I would like to comment the race, not the white line issue, but this trouble will have NO SOLUTIONS until the cut rule will reamin unchanged.
Another thing is that this is not an issue restricted to me, Clive, Matt, John, GT and Geoffers, and I would like to know if for every driver this cut rule is enough clear. By my side, I repeat that it is not, and even GT and Geoffers were on my thinking. I just quote the post after Hungary race written by Gt: "I think there is a real need for clarification of our general rules and everyone should then be in no doubt of what is legal/illegal and exactly what the consequences are. " Until now there has been no clarification at all. Our DQ cannot depend by a generic word like "most".

Last thing. Is it a legal behaviour to put the 2 internal tyres ON (not inside, ON!) the white line? I have a picture to show to clarify it better.

So, is that legal?


This is the replay of my totally outlaw lap, just to let you see what the game considered a legal cut in this lap:
Link => http://vda.forumfree.it/?act=Attach&type=post&id=530047639

Thanks for your answer. See you on Thursday.


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Animal Ed
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« Reply #12 on: March 25, 2013, 07:30:31 PM +0000 »

Errr ... why do I have those ones and you don`t?

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simon loynes
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« Reply #13 on: March 25, 2013, 07:35:10 PM +0000 »

Well he is now in front of you in the PlanetF1 Fantasy League.   Tongue
 lol lol lol

All gets reset to 0 now for the main championship
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« Reply #14 on: March 25, 2013, 08:57:43 PM +0000 »

Ed. are you at the same chicane? we are discussing the 1st one.
I tend to run with detail on low, and i only get bollards at the 2nd chicane out.

Anyway, I seem to remember we turned cuts off for this track last time we were here.
Thanks for the testing Matteo, I will turn cuts off, but the cut police will be standing at each corner

To be fair, the kerbs are so narrow here that there is little difference between where ever you put
your wheels. Regular 4 wheels on the grass will get an incident report however many people do it  detective

Now, lets have a clean fight, no tearing of hair or gouging of eyes allowed
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