UKGPL Season 24 (2013) Professionals Trophy (65) - Mexico City - Feb 19

[Cookie]

Now it's enough!
The rules were written in the race posts of the races and the registration threat!

AND

For this race only the predominant leader of this championship Hristo will be handicapped as the followers are close together.

Hristo Itchov -> Cooper

IMO you had a good chance to get a good result in Montjuic in the Cooper, but you decided to take the verbal confrontation and ignore the rules!

[Hristo Itchov]

You yet again prove you take things out of context. I said I did not read that and I was not reading the chat in the server, and when I saw you were repeatably shouting COOPER at the end of the session, there was no time for a car switch EVEN if I wanted to. It made no sense to me that you would handicap me in the Cooper for a mere 30 points lead, considering the competitiveness of the races (which you obviously are unaware of and judge only on fastest lap times), so I never expected it and simply didn't read the race thread, just grabbed the password at the top. I would have definitely brought this up well before the race have I noticed your irrational handicap, you know that very well.

Please don't hide behind rules, we're not slaves here. If you can't see my reasoning then you're just being stubborn and trying to establish your moderator's authority, disregarding everything that's been said. What a shame that the league has gone down to such level really. People who yesterday were rookies are now given power and judge things from their limited point of view, assuming it improves the situation. It's a shame you're not willing to even discuss things and see the flaws in the system. You don't even attempt to oppose any of the points I made regarding all this and instead you prefer to hide behind the regulations and authority. And you know what I find funny, Axel. You were 2nd in the championship before this race, so it gives an even bigger impression of bias that you tried to handicap me.

[DLogan]

...I trust the moderators here to use their best judgement. As you don't, why are you here?

...your irrational handicap...
...If you can't see my reasoning then you're just being stubborn and trying to establish your moderator's authority...
...judge things from their limited point of view...
...you prefer to hide behind the regulations and authority...
...an even bigger impression of bias that you tried to handicap me.

That.

[Hristo Itchov]

Suit yourself. It's not fine by me at all. There is no justification that a mere 30 points lead because of other people's bad luck rather than sheer performance is reason enough to give me the second slowest car while my direct opponents remain without handicap. What do I race for here? Last season it was the reverse situation and nobody cared to handicap someone else and give me a chance in an inferior machinery, but now when I'm leading, it just to be done so I do not win, is that it? Ridiculous!

[DLogan]

Different subject, sorry it took this long to get to. From my submitted report, re: lap 20 @ T1 with Ronnie:

Dicing with Ronnie for a few laps previous, had stuck my nose inside at T1 2 laps before but he was having none of it, thought I had good run on him but wasn't ahead like I thought, and this after telling someone else the day before that "inside at T1 Mexico is NOT a good move", especially in a pro damage race (which I'd forgot about d'oh), I deserve a penalty for ending Ronnie's race early.

[bernie]

That would be me , and I still stand by what I said

T1 Mex is a great place to overtake , its also IMO one of the finest corners in GPL for practising the art of trail braking , unfortunately  I'm still very much at the practising stage 

[BadBlood]

Hristo,

You are being a bit disingenuous about not realising there was a handicap. You took a different chassis in race 2 which was excluded after the series merger. We allowed the latitude as there was some confusion after the series changed but you knew that there was handicapping from Race 3. It is your responsibility to read the race post and it was clearly stated. The issue is the fairness to the other drivers in the series who have fully respected the rules.

It is also unfair to accuse Cookie of bias - that has no merit and is not worthy of you. To also assert that you are being targeted to ensure you do not win is also without merit. Handicaps in the top series are not desirable but we felt it only fair after several Inters drivers were forced 'up'.

As to the handicap system, I have not had time to discuss with Cookie the setting up of a handicapping system for this series so that is not his fault and you have my apologies. We will discuss that and any changes will be announced in the race post for Race 4. Please ensure you read it.

The handicap to a Cooper is based on the fact that the slowest three (although this is arguable) are BT7; Cooper and BRM. The handicapping last year in the 65's was based on the leader being handicapped with the BT7 and anyone within seven points getting the BT7 or Cooper and anyone within 14 points getting the BT7, Cooper or BRM. The merge with the Intermediates means that handicapping was unavoidable. Your lead of 'a mere 30 points' is, in this context pretty large.

From that point of view, Cookie was over generous in giving you the Cooper - it should have been the BT7. You could probably have won in that anyway!

[Hristo Itchov]

I'm not sure what you're talking about, Paul, because last year neither myself nor Tristan were ever handicapped. We simply ran without handicap and it made perfect sense. Those small points difference you're talking about, it's the first time I hear about them. What was discussed between last and this season was that when the gap grows beyond 50 points, a handicap of a very slow car might be used. Now here we have a couple of drivers at the top with similar pace and you're saying only I should get handicapped. If we had a robust system in place like the one in Historics, which handicaps the top 3 (I think), then OK, it will apply every race after the first 2 and it will make sure the championship remains close. However I can't really see how subjective handicapping which is decided by the moderator based solely on their own view, without any predefined factors (not announced publicly anyway) leads to a fair championship.

As for the slowest 3 cars, I would say BT7, Cooper and BT11. BRM is rather quick in the 65 mod, especially on faster tracks (which is where handicap makes the biggest impact anyway). I would understand if, to accommodate the Inters merge, the top drivers in the division are all handicapped to slower cars, but only me? It really appears based on the (obvious) lack of broad view by Axel on the situation, as he only points out lap times or margin of victory, disregarding actual events in the race that led to those statistics. You only have to take a look at the Albi race from yesterday, in Historics, to realize how equally matched myself and Tristan are, Florian and Artiglietti as well, and JB if he chooses to enter other divisions outside Works, as well as all others who are just about there - Evil, Al, etc.

[BadBlood]

As I have said it is based on the Inters rules from last year. This is not Cookie working alone. The BRM is included because although it is quicker than the BT11 it is noticeably more fragile so drivers tend to have to drive at less than 100% or risk a retirement.

The announcement of the handicap is in the race post. I have checked back and in the past when people have not taken the handicap they have been excluded from the results. Even when such a failure to comply is inadvertent. That will seem very unfair to you but we did give you latitude after Race 2. Downside is you will lose some points. Upside is you won't get handicapped so badly! This may appear arbitrary but we have discussed it as a group and this seems the fairest way to everybody. Frankly, unless we take your wheels off, you'll still win!

On the subject of handicapping on very fast tracks, we tend not to because that is SO unfair. BT7 at Spa would just be torture.

[Hristo Itchov]

It's not so obvious from the way things are written in race announcements. It just says the moderator will decide and you have no way of knowing by what rules they handicap whatsoever. That's why my reaction was so severe, because it just seemed unfair and I couldn't justify it. Feel free to exclude me from this race.

[BadBlood]

Thanks. A reminder to you all to check the race post please. I will make sure that for round 4, at least if there is a handicap I will PM each of you.

[Hristo Itchov]

I always check handicaps in divisions that use a proper system. The reason I didn't check here was because it was the last thing I expected to happen so early in the season and with such close competition. It's not necessary to PM me about it really, so save yourself the trouble.

[Cookie]

Moderation published

[natan5]

Can you explain to me please how its work ?
Cookie spun in front of me and take me out and ruin my race and points !!!
Nothing said about it ?
Does he deserve more points then me ?
No penalty ? No warns ?
It is very interesting and not for the first time !
Very strange rules you has guys !!!

[Hristo Itchov]

Can you explain to me please how its work ?
Cookie spun in front of me and take me out and ruin my race and points !!!
Nothing said about it ?
Does he deserve more points then me ?
No penalty ? No warns ?
It is very interesting and not for the first time !
Very strange rules you has guys !!!

If it wasn't on lap 1, it has to be reported, otherwise it won't be moderated. I assume it wasn't reported? Besides, if someone spins and someone else can't avoid hitting them, it's just a racing incident.