UKGPL Season 24 (2013) Extra Trophy (69X) - Monza - Mar 8

[Johnny.P]

It did not and does not seem strange to me. I know very little of the history of F1 from 1969 and did not consider my lack of historical knowledge would be such a hindrance. If the eagle is so bad then it seems a waste of effort on the team who created it for gpl as no one but the stupid will use it- except maybe if it was crap in 1969.

[NickyIckx]

 
First of all I want to express I am sorry for Göran been sent into armco of Curva Grande first lap ! I watched servers replay several times on this , but cant see any reason why that happened then server mismatched right position of the cars. There was plenty of room between us both.
Second thing:  I am surprised discussion on this race heated up that badly and I would appreciate if it will be possible for some to envelope an more relaxed view on this race .

Well , watching replay I think Lesmo2 disaster starts with slightly spinning car of Bob Withwell , which to me looks pretty much more server related then effect of careless or over aggressive action btw. However, in following multiple crash happened. Must acknowledge my  reaction in slowing down rapidly by seeing the crash in front , wasn’t good, but doubt it would have had changed anything .
I am sure the dimension of these crash is very much based on the fact that Lesmo2 is a turn, which allows no duck or hard braking.
In reality after that kind of mass crash, the race would have been restarted.
As well in reality that kinda things do happened, so no question of pro rules or whatever.

Another point I am really unhappy with, are the complains on Piero`s driving style.
Watching servers replay on this, I absolutely cant see he does any wrong.
I got the impression by more wing setup he was able to enter turns like Lesmos  and Para with more speed and definitely with shorter braking move. That enables to force faster less wing cars to not catch up the ideal line in time. Different setups - different strategies and to me no question: trying to checkmate is a suitable thing to utilize.
To me he did an brilliant job , no way unfair.
That crash with Artiglietti at Curva Grande ( L33 ), to me , was an ordinary race incident,
Artiglietti took his chance and he did real good , could control the extra speed outa tow. Run a bit wide ok , but still under control. Unfortunately GPL seems to count slipstream effect a bit nervous . Watching replay really step by step , it shows how Piero`s car speeds up by 2-3kmh just by the slipstream-effect given by overtaking Artiglietti , and that makes his car spin slightly to the left. As Artiglietti was moving very slightly to the right by trying to avoid Armco , or just to stabilize the car, contact happened.


Ah well , I know I am not an admin and I don’t want to be.
But cause I am sad about the way after-race-discussion partly went, I am saying all this….
Of course I wished this race would have been less crashy and more filled with thrilling sporty action. BUT hey that’s racing ……………

Rules note : only 1 shift-R is allowed right ? guess not everyone does know…


Technical note:
I wonder how bad 69x collision box works compared to Gts mod for example.
Wasn’t there an update for 69x ?  Or do I simply confused it with the message that 69x comes with worked over collision box over older 69mod ?

[DLogan]

I'm going to let Hristo, Arturo, and the mods deal with the racing action (as my race was spectacularly uneventful), but there needs to be something said about some of the behaviour I saw in qualifying:

1) When you hit the green button, DO NOT immediately peel out of your pitbox in a straight line! There is a "traffic lane" in the pits, use it. Driving straight up the line of pitstalls invites contact with the other driver who hits their green button only to appear directly (and now unavoidably) in your path. I've lost good qually laps due to cars coming out the pits airborne, sideways, and on fire because of crap like this.

2) If you're on an outlap (or if you've muffed up your present lap) MAKE WAY for others coming up from behind, they may be on a timed lap. It doesn't matter to you whether you make it
to that corner in 2 seconds or 5 (having let that other car through), but that may be the other driver's only chance for a clean qualifying lap.

Different subject: Johnny.P, the Eagle AAR001 is there for historical accuracy, and yes, compared to the rest of the field, it was crap. Check GPLRank to find out which cars others have got good times in. Having slower cars available is a good thing IMO, as you can use them for handicapping purposes (tho I wouldn't wish the 69 Eagle on anyone  ).

[Johnny.P]

Thanks Dlogan, I'll do that. 

[BadBlood]

BIG CONGRATS TO MY MATE PHIL... FIRST WIN - YAHEY.

You beat me to that Gold - BOO! 

Very well done. Genuinely pleased for you.

[HendyNichols]

This Lights race was a joke.

From the idiots up front wanting to win the race on the first lap to the idiots at the back rejoining during the race with no thought for those following behind it demonstrated everything which has been bad this season across a few of the championships. Even I cannot say I was blameless.

It was also bizarre; Hendy how on earth did you transform your car from a flaming fireball minus at least one wheel to a perfectly functioning car the next second without a shift-r?

Haven't seen the replay so I'm not sure which wreck you're referring to. I think I had contact about 3 times. The first two 'bad' wrecks i was involved in I rolled and landed on my wheels with no obvious problems to the car. The last wreck I lost a wheel and had to reset and was moving slowly on the outside of T4 when I think you came around and got me. It was good as always racing with you at the beginning, you're a more reliable driver than me I think and you deserved to have finished the race.

Sometimes when there is a large wreck with so many cars on the Pribluda monitor it's hard to tell when I can safely shift-R. In the future I'll try and be more careful.

[robert john]

Congrats Hristo, Piero, and Attilio

I was last to arrive on the scene at Lesmo2 and there was no warning. By the time you realized what was up it was too late. Apologies to those I ran in to and Marco for touching wheels when we were all trying to get sorted.    
I clearly benefitted from this accident as far as track position. Hooked up with Hendy and Ronnie for several laps, and yes, Hendy was driving a flame thrower for a few corners.          I pipped by these two when they came to grief but soon had Tristan going very fast behind. When He went past I grabbed the draft for a couple of laps and stabilized the gap to Cookie. I don't remember seeing Florian in the sand @Parabolica but my pitboard soon warned me of a new threat and the last ten laps were all out trying to stay ahead. A photo finish with Florian but he was clearly better and but for a touch of the grass at Ascari things would have been different.  Great finish Florian.        

Fun race for me.  Too bad so many got involved on lap 1.  

Peace

RJ

Grats to Philippe for his first win   

[Ronniepeterson]

This Lights race was a joke.

From the idiots up front wanting to win the race on the first lap to the idiots at the back rejoining during the race with no thought for those following behind it demonstrated everything which has been bad this season across a few of the championships. Even I cannot say I was blameless.

It was also bizarre; Hendy how on earth did you transform your car from a flaming fireball minus at least one wheel to a perfectly functioning car the next second without a shift-r?

Haven't seen the replay so I'm not sure which wreck you're referring two. I think I had contact about 3 times. The first two 'bad' wrecks i was involved in I rolled and landed on my wheels with no obvious problems to the car. The last wreck I lost a wheel and had to reset and was moving slowly on the outside of T4 when I think you came around and got me. It was good as always racing with you at the beginning, you're a more reliable driver than me I think and you deserved to have finished the race.

Sometimes when there is a large wreck with so many cars on the Pribluda monitor it's hard to tell when I can safely shift-R. In the future I'll try and be more careful.

No problem Hendy, it was just a bad night at the office for everyone. I was looking at the server replay and spotted a car on fire minus a front right wheel (I think) and realised it was you only to see you moments later fully intact and flames extinguished, it was just weird?

[Hristo Itchov]

It was also bizarre; Hendy how on earth did you transform your car from a flaming fireball minus at least one wheel to a perfectly functioning car the next second without a shift-r?

This happens sometimes due to warp/lag, it just delays the update for a car after a shift-r, so you see it still destroyed even if it was reset lol. Quite funny actually!

The problem is that I work one hour a week and when I come to run in the league happens that I often find myself in front in qualifying, but I do not have to setup adequate competition.
Yesterday I just wanted to get to the end but the crowds in the grandstands of Monza I lit the passion ..

If disturbance tell that I have no problem to stop.

Hello

Piero, nobody is asking you to stop, but you have to realize there is a time to attack and there is a time to stay behind and just follow the car in front. You gain nothing by attacking everywhere and by risking everywhere, especially on a track like Monza. The only thing that happens is both cars are put under risk of contact, both drivers lose time and nobody really gains anything. I hope you will think about it and we can have cleaner races in the future, because you are very quick and capable.

Another point I am really unhappy with, are the complains on Piero`s driving style.
Watching servers replay on this, I absolutely cant see he does any wrong.
I got the impression by more wing setup he was able to enter turns like Lesmos  and Para with more speed and definitely with shorter braking move. That enables to force faster less wing cars to not catch up the ideal line in time. Different setups - different strategies and to me no question: trying to checkmate is a suitable thing to utilize.
To me he did an brilliant job , no way unfair.
That crash with Artiglietti at Curva Grande ( L33 ), to me , was an ordinary race incident,
Artiglietti took his chance and he did real good , could control the extra speed outa tow. Run a bit wide ok , but still under control. Unfortunately GPL seems to count slipstream effect a bit nervous . Watching replay really step by step , it shows how Piero`s car speeds up by 2-3kmh just by the slipstream-effect given by overtaking Artiglietti , and that makes his car spin slightly to the left. As Artiglietti was moving very slightly to the right by trying to avoid Armco , or just to stabilize the car, contact happened.

Well, sorry that I have to say this, Nicky, but if you really see it that way, then you're not seeing the full picture. You don't realize the risk involved when someone keeps attacking everywhere by putting both himself and the car in front at risk, to the extent where the driver in front has to react in the last moment to open the door in order to avoid getting hit, even though he's not obliged to do so. Likewise on corner exits where the two cars are side by side and one of the drivers is being squeezed out. I can absolutely guarantee you that had I not taken some evasive action by giving room or lifting up, there would have been contact between myself and Piero in at least 2-3 situations, even though I had full rights to keep my line and speed. To put it in a short sentence, when in a battle between 2 drivers, only 1 of them takes the necessary measures to avoid contact. This is not the right way to race, compromising your own driving while the other driver doesn't do that. You don't see me attacking like that because it's just not right and it would be out of my control how the situation unfolds. There is no enjoyment in such kind of racing, I can't trust racing against such a driver who doesn't care if there is contact or not, or whether both drivers lose up to 1-2 seconds as a result. It's not a matter of whether it's intentional or not, I'm not saying it was intentional, but it is simply over the top.

[Piero Mercaldo]

 Dear Hristo ,
 I know you're faster than me In fact I had no intention to attack, my goal was to get to the end.
Covering the reply it is clear that I try to put pressure to make a mistake, it was the only way to win but I never have been wrong with you.
You are the strongest of all there is no doubt but mistakes under pressure too, 2 times 2 times lesmo dish and if you make mistakes.

As for the incident with Attilio, if you look carefully it is he who goes out to the Curva Grande trajectory and goes off, I try to take advantage of it and he rather to maintain its track narrows and created the incident.
I do not seem to have been particularly unfair!
I believe that the races are also made of these episodes.

I promise that my next training will make them with a full tank.

Sorry for the English but use the translator.

PS. Attilio sei Italiano? Mi dispiace soprattutto per Montjuic..

[Artiglietti]

As for the incident with Attilio, if you look carefully it is he who goes out to the Curva Grande trajectory and goes off, I try to take advantage of it and he rather to maintain its track narrows and created the incident.
I do not seem to have been particularly unfair!
I believe that the races are also made of these episodes.

....


PS. Attilio sei Italiano? Mi dispiace soprattutto per Montjuic..

E che é successo a Montjuic, Piero  , mica mi ricordo? Comunque su questa mi spiace ma sei in torto marcio, c'é poco da dire 

Sorry for the Italian guys, promise theres nothing untoward in there  . I think differently about that accident, as, in my view, you shouldnt have been there in the first place, there simply wasnt enough space for your car, which was also always going to be tail happy at that speed, and clearly wiped me off. Anyway, it's sent to the mods, so we will see what a third party thinks. However I have to say I am rather baffled by the contrasting opinions, I mean, not even when you actually crash with someone you consider you might have done something wrong..?  I think that keeping your side of the road is one of the basics of online racing, it was hammered into my head in the first races of my Novice season, but maybe things have now changed, and I should just throw that out of the window and start racing a bit more freely, really.

[Hristo Itchov]

Dear Hristo ,
 I know you're faster than me In fact I had no intention to attack, my goal was to get to the end.
Covering the reply it is clear that I try to put pressure to make a mistake, it was the only way to win but I never have been wrong with you.
You are the strongest of all there is no doubt but mistakes under pressure too, 2 times 2 times lesmo dish and if you make mistakes.

I don't think it's a matter of speed, Piero. Those 2 times at Lesmo you're speaking of, those were not mistakes on my part, I intentionally went wide to give you room because I was quite sure you were going to hit me otherwise. Anyway, see you at the next race!

I think that keeping your side of the road is one of the basics of online racing, it was hammered into my head in the first races of my Novice season, but maybe things have now changed, and I should just throw that out of the window and start racing a bit more freely, really.

Well I don't know for you really, but I'm not going to change my approach, otherwise anything I say here would come out as hypocrisy. I'd keep insisting people have to adhere to certain driving ethics, especially online where you simply cannot race wheel to wheel in the presence of lag and not so good collision detection as we have in GPL.

[fpolicardi]

Attention to Mods please.
I had to reset in the first lap mess at Lesmo2 followed by a S&G. Later in the race I was catching Hendy while he spun at Lesmo 2 and I hit him. No need of reset for both , but trying to put my car in the right direction and out of way of coming cars I went in front of inside fence. As reverse doesn't work on my G27 shifter, after several attempts and seconds to move my car away from the fence I reset for the second time and did a S&G soon after finishing the race dead last. I wasn't sure about S&R rule, but now I know I am DQ. Please correct my standing.
Ciao

[francesco]

And Fran, into Curva Grande on the last lap...you had to know I was right beside you, surely? Turning into me was not a good deal. Lucky for me warp kicked you into the fence

Sorry Geof but I was a little bit disappointed from your action.A copy of this incident happened in the 67 with Fabio awith the same result,my car destroied.When a car disappear from the mirror coul be on the side or coul be in the rear side,and in this curve and at that point and speed ,i must do the curve or i must meeting the wall.Normally I release the gas and i go in oversteer,so i "close" the curve.
Wat disappoint me is the fact that you was faster than me and after the 2 Lesmo you had all the space for an overtake.Anyway the final result don't change but is better,in my opinion,to avoid overtakes in place that can assure an incident.

[Geoff65]

And Fran, into Curva Grande on the last lap...you had to know I was right beside you, surely? Turning into me was not a good deal. Lucky for me warp kicked you into the fence

Sorry Geof but I was a little bit disappointed from your action.A copy of this incident happened in the 67 with Fabio awith the same result,my car destroied.When a car disappear from the mirror coul be on the side or coul be in the rear side,and in this curve and at that point and speed ,i must do the curve or i must meeting the wall.Normally I release the gas and i go in oversteer,so i "close" the curve.
Wat disappoint me is the fact that you was faster than me and after the 2 Lesmo you had all the space for an overtake.Anyway the final result don't change but is better,in my opinion,to avoid overtakes in place that can assure an incident.

Well, not quite correct. I was faster through the corners only, my overly tall top gear only allowed me to hold station rather than cruise past outside of the draft. I had no option but to use the cars best attribute, it's cornering performance. When I have someone draft me into CG, I always back off and give them the corner....it's not the place to be defending. Driving the rest of the lap in a tidy manner then allows you to draft from Ascari to Parabolica and attack them there. At the 200 marker into CG, a quick right glance shows me to be right beside you. Racecraft also includes knowing when to shut the throttle and give best to an opponent that has track position. Remember, you're running at the front now, not dicing for 10th....the games a little different at the pointy end. How about joining me for some practice before the next event, and we can try to get your car a little more user friendly....mine doesn't snap oversteer when I close the throttle. PM me if you're interested Fran.
Geoff.