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  • S24Pro Mont-Tremblant: April 30, 2013
April 30, 2013, 10:36:15 PM +0100 - Mont-Tremblant - UKGPL Season 24 (2013) Professionals Trophy (65)
Driver
 Team
Nat. Make Model Class Qualifying Race
Tyres Pos Time/Gap Pos Time/Gap Laps Stops Best Retirement
reason
Ballast
Hristo Itchov
 
Lotus 33 (Climax 1965) F1 1965 1 1:40.980
94.458mph
1 51:20.221
92.900mph
30 1:41.006
94.434mph
Dunlop  
EvilClive
 Blue Moose Racing
Lotus 33 (Climax 1965) F1 1965 2 +0.447
94.042mph
2 +21.248
92.264mph
30 1:41.860
93.642mph
Dunlop  
Ronniepeterson
 Clark-Hill Racing
Brabham BT11 (Climax) F1 1965 4 +0.900
93.624mph
3 +24.307
92.173mph
30 1:42.357
93.188mph
Goodyear  
DLogan
 
Lotus 33 (Climax 1965) F1 1965 3 +0.894
93.630mph
4 +38.916
91.741mph
30 1:41.859
93.643mph
Dunlop  
kinghiro
 Clark-Hill Racing
BRM P261 (1965) F1 1965 5 +1.176
93.371mph
5 +54.994
91.270mph
30 1:43.120
92.498mph
Dunlop  
Rainier
 Black Night Racing
Brabham BT11 (Climax) F1 1965 9 +2.852
91.864mph
6 +1:04.903
90.983mph
30 1:43.422
92.228mph
Goodyear  
Clutch4
 Mountside Racing
Brabham BT11 (Climax) F1 1965 11 7 +22L
87.787mph
8 1:45.418
90.482mph
Disco
Goodyear  
natan5
 NVRacing
BRM P261 (1965) F1 1965 7 +2.383
92.281mph
8 +27L
88.315mph
3 1:44.925
90.907mph
Disco
Dunlop  
Cookie
 Antipasti Racing
Brabham BT11 (Climax) F1 1965 6 +2.179
92.463mph
9 (+2) +1.134
88.007mph
3 1:44.750
91.059mph
accident
Goodyear  
AnGex
 Black Night Racing
Lotus 33 (Climax 1965) F1 1965 8 +2.404
92.262mph
10 (+3) +30L
---
0 ---
---
Disco
Dunlop  
MagicArsouille
 
Brabham BT11 (Climax) F1 1965 11 DNS ---
---
Goodyear  
UKGPL 8
 
Brabham BT7 (Climax) F1 1965 10 12 ---
---
Dunlop  

Moderator's Report

There was one incident in the red zone that could have caused a big carnage...
But it didn't!
No other incidents reported.


Server replay time: 0h00m57s

Andreas follows Cookie over the hill in T2 and has a better acceleration after the jump.
Andreas seems to underestimate the speed difference and rearends Cookie.


Server replay time: 0h06m58s

Cookie follows Natan too close into T8 and is surprised by an earlier braking. No excuse!

SimRacing.org.uk Lap Records
Grand Prix Legends
F1 1965
1:41.006
94.434mph
Hristo Itchov
Race
Lotus 33 (Climax 1965)April 30, 2013, 10:36:15 PM +0100
S24Pro
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Author Topic: UKGPL Season 24 (2013) Professionals Trophy (65) - Mont-Tremblant - Apr 30  (Read 5566 times)
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Ronniepeterson
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« Reply #15 on: May 01, 2013, 06:02:15 PM +0100 »

Am I missing something? Anyone who races has a chance to win. Its not for anyone to pre-ordain who can and cannot win.

As I said I am all for the Pro series to be run with no handicapping. This sentiment had already been made in the mid season review by others and so I don't see the need to add anything at this stage. But for this season it was agreed before the first race that we would be operating a handicap on the leading three drivers. I don't see why rules agreed and now being ignored.

Its just getting extremely stupid. First we had people requested not to take the Lotus turning up in the Lotus. Next we had people using more than one chassis in a single chassis series. This was followed by the series leader being handicapped and refusing to use thew handicap car. In addition they received no penalty for this infringement of the rules. The leading three drivers have built up a sufficient lead to warrant handicapping (for comparison see the much harsher point differential that was used so successfully in the inters last season) but they have not been.

I merely ask the question are or are we not operating a handicap system this season. If we are, can the moderator confirm if it is the one agreed at the start of the season or the one insisted upon by disgruntled drivers during the season. In short have the lunatics taken over the running of the asylum!

Yes, you're missing something. It's one thing to say anyone has a chance to win races, but who is more likely to win it's what it's about. Otherwise you may as well say Caterham have a chance to win a race in F1. Currently we have a couple of top drivers who deserve to win based on their ability, and they've been winning races this season to prove that. How is it justified to handicap one or two of them so late in the season and rob them of their chance to fight for the title with the rest who are on similar pace? We're not using the same system as in Historic and F2, so it makes no sense to suddenly do that.

The handicap for the 3 leading drivers would have worked if it was done systematically, every race, but that's not been the case, so who is to decide when and why someone is handicapped, and when not? It's like you want an interference for the championship for the last races, even though it didn't happen consistently so far. I'd rather see a fair fight without such interference.

We will just have to agree to disagree on who deserves to win a race/series. I still maintain that anyone taking part is deserving of a win if they come first/or a championship if they finish with most points.

As for everything else I completely agree with you. Why when we switched from intermediate damage to pro damage the implied handicapping was not jettisoned at the same time is a mystery to me. But it was not and the fact that handicapping has been kept but not applied has been confusing. Will people get to pick and choose rules or simply ignore them in the future? It sets a dangerous precedent and I think some clarification if rules are merely going to be guidelines in some instances is required.

Enough of this from me, back to the race last night. A good start put me in the mix with the trio of Loti and when Hristo and Dean held each other up and Clive spun I took my chance to lead for a short while. But it was not to last. Grats to Hristo and Clive, you were both just too fast for me. I did my best to hold onto the lead and second spot respectively but the slightest error and both of you pounced and showed a turn of speed I could not match even with a slipstream. Likewise Dean was a touch too fast for me but I assume I had more luck and on track time to secure that third place. Better luck next time mate. See you all at the next round.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2013, 08:52:31 PM +0100 by Ronniepeterson » Logged
liveclive
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« Reply #16 on: May 01, 2013, 06:40:08 PM +0100 »

I am just beginning to believe that I might have solved my disco problems.....now watch me disco in the next race!!! Roll Eyes

Grats to Hristo for a fine win.

When Hristo and Ronnie? tangled early in the race I thought I had a chance to escape and sneak away into the lead. I was just far enough ahead to be out of slipstream range and if I could maintain my qually pace I might just stay out of reach.    Well, that might have worked if I had kept my right foot off the gas a little longer at T6. Instead I was too eager to get on the gas and I managed to spin up the rear tyres and spin nicely on to the infield  Undecided I was not far enough ahead to be able to rejoin and I had to wait for at least 3 hours whilst the field streamed past.
By the time I did get going, the red fog was VERY thick and I hunted down the cars in front one by one. It took a few laps but eventually I found myself in 4th with the leading trio of Dean, Ronnie and Hristo showing themselves in the distance . Lap by lap the gap came down and I glimpsed their cars more often. I was hoping that their 3 way scrap would just hinder them enough that I could get involved.
Then Dean made a mistake and Hristo took the lead, followed by Ronnie as I inherited 3rd.
I suspect that at about this time in the race Hristo turned the screw and teh pace of the leading 2 increased...at least the gap stopped coming down as quickly!!! But it was still coming down, so I must be lapping slightly quicker than they were.
Gradually Hristo eased a gap on Ronnie and he slipped back into my clutches devil
One or two laps harrasing Ronnie paid off when he put a wheel on the grass and I grabbed the chance to take 2nd spot. It was crucial to get a gap over Ronnie or he would certainly attempt to regain the place, so I pushed VERY hard for a couple of laps until the rear tyre temps dictated that I ease up slightly.
 During those fast laps I did reduce the gap to Hristo, but I was never fast enough or close enough to mount a challenge for the lead. I made the classic mistake of easing off and relaxing once I had a 300mtr lead over Ronnie with only a few laps to go and simply got too lazy out of the final turn and managed a complete 360 spin. Fortunately I was just far enough ahead of Ronnie to hold on to 2nd place as I rejoined, but now I had a car in my mirrors with only a few laps to go...not good when that car is in the hands of someone as fast as Ronnie!!! Shocked
I pushed hard again to get a few hundred mtrs lead and was able to cruise the final lap to hold 2nd spot.

For me a really satisfying race recovering from a disaster at the beginning and crawling back to take 2nd spot.
Grats to Hristo Ronnie and commiserations to Dean who maybe should also have been in contention for the podium.
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The views expressed here by liveclive are not necessarily endorsed by the true management of evilclive.com, but they might be.
Hristo Itchov
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« Reply #17 on: May 01, 2013, 09:04:18 PM +0100 »

I don't think we made contact, Evil, it was just that I lost it a bit over the crest trying to give room to the inside. This and my other off early on were due to the car being very unstable under braking and under throttle, so much that I couldn't really compete with Dean and was about on par with Ronnie's slower (overall) BT11. The BT11 had superb acceleration and traction out of the corners though, so I couldn't really find a way past, and Dean was much quicker under braking and through the slower corners, so I had to push really hard and defend sometimes. Fortunately for me all 3 - Evil, Ronnie and Dean - made bigger mistakes at different times in the race, so I could inherit the lead, and with the fuel going down my pace also improved, so I didn't really push harder or anything, it's just that the car became a bit easier to drive near the end and I could maintain and then increase the gap.

Great racing though, I was pleasantly surprised by the pace of Dean and Ronnie, and Evil was right in there too, as it took a lot of effort to beat his qualifying lap time. Looking forward to the next races where it should be as intense as this one!
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maddog
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« Reply #18 on: May 02, 2013, 01:51:27 PM +0100 »

As the dust settles, I think the message has been delivered, that adjust 'on the fly', handicapping is unwanted.  The way to prevent it's temptation, is to correctly predict the relative speed of cars and drivers, and handicap around that prediction.  IT NEEDS TO BE ACCEPTED BY ALL, THAT NO SYSTEM IS PERFECT.  Some will be happier than others, but an honest and well thought out system, should keep most happy enough.

It wouldn't surprise me to learn, that individual Moderators, have been free to choose the handicap system they personally prefer, without sufficient debate within the group.  I'd suggest a larger, 'Brain Trust' is needed - more consultation and approval before new ideas are tried out on our perambulations.  The discontent among the troops you see here, is a result of decisions taken at the top.  Where to apply a handicap is another matter. 
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BadBlood
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« Reply #19 on: May 02, 2013, 03:20:31 PM +0100 »

The only real grumbling has been in the Pros and the handicapping is necessarily imperfect because it was never intended to be applied to this series. Next season we will try and run three grids again but both the Inters and Novices will be handicapped. It remains to be see whether the grid sizes justify the extra work. If not we will probably run Pros unhandicapped and Novices with a more wide ranging handicap to take better account of the wide disparity in abilities.
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maddog
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« Reply #20 on: May 02, 2013, 06:35:32 PM +0100 »

 . . . . .  . . . . . .  Ok, sounds good.  Cool
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Hristo Itchov
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« Reply #21 on: May 02, 2013, 06:41:33 PM +0100 »

I really hope you'll finally crack and use (in the divisions with handicap) the much better championship standing-based handicap system instead of a fixed chassis after the start of the season.
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Cookie
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« Reply #22 on: May 12, 2013, 09:37:08 AM +0100 »

Moderation published
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Axel "Cookie"

poor, he who sees no stars without the punch in the face

an aphorism of  Stanislaus Jercy Lec
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