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  • S2567W Oulton Park: October 20, 2013
October 20, 2013, 10:39:46 PM +0100 - Oulton Park (GP 1954-72) - UKGPL Season 25 (2013) Works Trophy (67)
Driver
 Team
Nat. Make Model Class Qualifying Race
Tyres Pos Time/Gap Pos Time/Gap Laps Stops Best Retirement
reason
Ballast
Ronniepeterson
 
Ferrari 312 (1967) F1 1967 4 +1.394
107.430mph
1 53:13.368
105.800mph
34 1:32.804
107.075mph
Firestone  
Baab
 Team Baarf
Brabham BT24 (Repco) F1 1967 5 +1.433
107.384mph
2 +15.508
105.289mph
34 1:32.509
107.417mph
Goodyear  
Samb
 Black Night Racing
Cooper T81b (Maserati) F1 1967 6 +2.117
106.596mph
3 +29.856
104.820mph
34 1:33.735
106.012mph
Firestone  
AndyL
 
Cooper T81b (Maserati) F1 1967 14 +4.094
104.383mph
4 +1L
100.998mph
33 1:36.448
103.030mph
Firestone  
Rainier
 Black Night Racing
Honda RA300 F1 1967 13 +3.890
104.607mph
5 +2L
98.507mph
32 1:36.112
103.390mph
Firestone  
natan5
 NVRacing
Brabham BT24 (Repco) F1 1967 9 +3.101
105.483mph
6 +18L
102.695mph
16 1:34.972
104.631mph
Disco
Goodyear  
Maarten Steverink
 
Cooper T81b (Maserati) F1 1967 2 +0.550
108.419mph
7 +20L
105.695mph
14 1:31.759
108.295mph
Disco
Firestone  
EvilClive
 Blue Moose Racing
Brabham BT24 (Repco) F1 1967 8 +2.323
106.361mph
8 +15.524
104.463mph
14 1:32.882
106.985mph
Disco
Goodyear  
fpolicardi
 Team7
Brabham BT24 (Repco) F1 1967 7 +2.173
106.532mph
9 +1:27.709
99.092mph
14 1:34.124
105.574mph
Disco
Goodyear  
MagicArsouille
 
Brabham BT24 (Repco) F1 1967 1 1:31.104
109.073mph
10 +22L
106.801mph
12 1:32.074
107.924mph
Disco
Goodyear  
DLogan
 
Brabham BT24 (Repco) F1 1967 12 +3.774
104.735mph
11 +24L
96.623mph
10 1:35.251
104.325mph
Disco
Goodyear  
Turkey Machine
 HikiWazaRacing
BRM P115 F1 1967 10 +3.300
105.261mph
12 +27L
102.135mph
7 1:34.814
104.805mph
Disco
Goodyear  
Arf Arf Arf
 Team Baarf
Eagle T1G (Weslake 1967) F1 1967 3 +1.260
107.585mph
13 +34L
---
0 ---
---
Disco
Goodyear  
Phil Thornton
 Antipasti Racing
Brabham BT24 (Repco) F1 1967 11 +3.597
104.930mph
14
---
0 ---
---
accident
Goodyear  
Gpg UKGPL
 
Ferrari 312 (1967) F1 1967 15 15 DNS ---
---
Firestone  

Moderator's Report

SUMMARY
A race of attrition on a very challenging circuit. Ronnie Peterson kept his head to take the win from Bob Whitwell who looked to have the race in the bag until he made an unforced error at Cascades. Bob recovered to hold onto second place from Sam Blood. There were some very fast lap times set in qualifying and the race but as ever, steady consistent driving wins the day.

A very clean red zone with only one incident of note during the race.


Server replay time: 0h26m29s

Lap 15 - Dear Leap - Fulvio Policardi and Natan Veksler
Fulvio's engine explodes at Clay Hill but he decides to coast around the track in an effort to complete another lap. He keeps to the right as Bob, Ronnie and Sam fly past at racing speeds. As Fulvio exits Deer Leap his car is now crawling along at 11 mph but rather than pull off, Fulvio tries to get to the finish line. He moves over onto the racing line where he is hidden from the view of any approaching car. At this point Natan exits Deer Leap at racing speed and has no chance of avoiding Fulvio's car. A severe impact occurs and both Natan and Fulvio are out of the race.

Fulvio should have pulled off the track as soon as it was apparent that his engine trouble was terminal. Had it been the last lap some mitigation could be allowed but with more than half the race still to run there was little to be gained from freewheeling around the track. Natan did nothing wrong and had no chance of avoiding a car hidden over the crest of a rise that was practically stationary on the racing line.

Whilst there is no explicit rule addressing this issue, it is covered under Etiquette in the GPL Recommended Driver Behaviour. Specifically under the section entitled "Get off the track and out of the way ASAP if your car is non functional".

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Author Topic: UKGPL Season 25 (2013) Works Trophy (67) - Oulton Park - Oct 20  (Read 4302 times)
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Phil Thornton
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« on: October 15, 2013, 11:14:04 PM +0100 »

Season 25 Works Trophy, Round 7, Oulton Park

Welcome to the seventh round in the Works Trophy.  Another round in England, this time further north into the Cheshire countryside to the very pretty Oulton Park circuit that looks much nicer in real life than it does in GPL.

The circuit is built in the grounds of Oulton Estate which comrised an old manor house, some lodges, farmland and a lake.  The names of a couple of bends, Lodge Corner and Old Hall Corner, hint back at a more sedate existance.  The first race at Oulton Park was held in 1953 on a makeshift rectangular circuit which was extended in 1955 to the full circuit we will be using tonight.  The track is quite narrow and in places and the run-off is limited (particularly at Knickerbrook where a local B road skirts the boundary of the park) so to make it safer several chicanes have been added in recent years.  Thankfully we don't need to worry too much about that, so we will be able to enjoy driving the 1967 version of the track which flows majestically through tree lined avenues, up steep hills, round double apex corners and banked hairpins.  There has never been a round of the Formula 1 World Championship held at Oulton Park but there were a lot of non-championship Formula 1 races held there between 1954 and 1982.  Most of these race meetings were called the "International Gold Cup".  A name that lives on in the guise of the Gold Cup historic race meeting; a sort of Goodwood of the north.  Same races but less posh totty, and rather ironically less flat caps!

As always, we will run Pro Damage, so resets are not allowed.

Race List = IGOR
Server = UKGPL_GPG
IP address = 62.195.2.111
Race date = 20-10-2013
Race Time = race starts at 21:30 UK time
Qualifying Time = Between 30 and 60 minutes, starting no later than 21:00 UK time
Track = Oulton Park 1967
Variant = 67F1
Damage Model = PRO
Race length = 50 minutes (laps 34)
Password: see above

Replays Available here

Driver lists can be found on the championship standings page

The full time drivers can start to practice as soon as the server is available.  Reserve drivers can also join as soon as the server becomes available but must leave the server with 35 minutes of qualifying left, for a total of 5 minutes; this will allow any remaining full timers to join.  If there is enough space on the grid, the reserve drivers will be able to rejoin when there are 30 mins of qualifying left.  

Moderating The red zone will be fully moderated for lap 1 only. For this event the red zone will be from the start to Hilltop. Other moderation will be on reported incidents only.  However any incidents that occur in the red zone that are not reported by the drivers will be reported by the moderator.  This will allow all affected drivers the opportunity to present their case before the incident is moderated.  This should ensure there are no surprises when the moderator's report is published and hence appeals will be less likely.  If you haven't received a PM about an incident before the link below the results table is removed, you can be sure that you will not appear in the moderator's report.

The chassis token system is explained on the Works standings page. Please ensure you choose a chassis that is within your budget, which can be seen by hovering the mouse over your points total in the standings.

Please restrict chat to pit messages including at the end of the race until ALL drivers still racing have crossed the line.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2013, 11:16:50 PM +0100 by Phil Thornton » Logged
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« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2013, 08:21:31 PM +0100 »

How the hell did Hristo get that Honda round here so fast?!?!
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« Reply #2 on: October 18, 2013, 08:35:25 AM +0100 »

A question that popped into my mind at many circuits   Undecided Undecided Undecided Undecided
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« Reply #3 on: October 18, 2013, 01:51:56 PM +0100 »

How the hell did Hristo get that Honda round here so fast?!?!
Jethro, we were both in the race when he set those times.  I've still got my client replay (but not the server replay) so I had a look.  There are two possibilities:

Hristo brakes a bit later than me and gets the power down a little earlier.  This is probably due to the tyre temperatures.  I never seem to get my tyres into the green, Prib almost always shows them as dark blue.

OR

Hristo is a genius Roll Eyes
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« Reply #4 on: October 18, 2013, 03:59:11 PM +0100 »

Don't think I have ever seen blue tyre temps  Huh mine are usually bordering on the infra red!!!!
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« Reply #5 on: October 18, 2013, 04:38:14 PM +0100 »

There are two possibilities:
Hristo brakes a bit later than me and gets the power down a little earlier.  This is probably due to the tyre temperatures.  I never seem to get my tyres into the green, Prib almost always shows them as dark blue.

OR

Hristo is a genius Roll Eyes


This makes it sound like if he's not a genius  [& I'm clearly not saying that!]  then braking later/power-on earlier is cheating somehow...? Smiley


(Get me hanging around in the works area again!  I'll sneak away again now...)
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« Reply #6 on: October 18, 2013, 06:21:47 PM +0100 »

This makes it sound like if he's not a genius  [& I'm clearly not saying that!]  then braking later/power-on earlier is cheating somehow...? Smiley
LOL, I'm not suggesting any cheating but the fact that he seems to have more grip than me might be because he is better at getting heat into the tyres than I am.  I've just done 17 laps in training mode.  It took at least 6 laps for the car to start to feel anything like grippy.  For the first couple of laps it was like driving on ice.  My tyre temps got slowly warmer until on lap 16 I managed to set a new PB.  At this point my tyre temps were still light blue:

LF
RF
O
M
I
I
M
O
206 208 209 225 225 219
LR
RR
O
M
I
I
M
O
217 219 218 214 214 211

My understanding is that 200 to 240 is optimum.  So would 240 be green???  Is Hristo running at 240?  Clive must be running a lot hotter than that Grin

I can up the tyre pressures to get more heat in the tyre but the middle will get hotter (even temperatures should mean optimum grip).  I can't seem to drive hard enough to generate enough heat (i.e. with the rear sliding about a lot like Clive and Martin) without crashing.  I'm hoping to do something so that I'm a bit more competitive this Sunday.  The Works is a tough division!
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« Reply #7 on: October 19, 2013, 09:26:13 PM +0100 »

I don't remember that particular race, though I remember one Oulton race where both myself and Lorenzo Galuzzi were in Honda, and he was quicker and won the race. As far as I know, 100 C (212 F) is the optimal temperature for the tyres. It seems to be the case in my experience, because anything above it seems to increase wheelspin.

I think at a track like Oulton, you gain more time by splitting the corners into two parts as much as possible - intensive braking on entry, turning the car as quickly as possible to point towards the apex, then intensive acceleration in a straighter line. This gains more time compared to smoothly drawing an arc around the corner while maintaining average speed.
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« Reply #8 on: October 19, 2013, 11:52:51 PM +0100 »

GPG server is set for 34 laps Long race and listening on Igor.
Ciao
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« Reply #9 on: October 20, 2013, 09:42:18 PM +0100 »

Arrrrgggh. What a night.

Couldn't join practice servers, couldn't start GPL. Restarted 2/3 times, no luck. Then suddenly it worked. Excellent practice gaining P3 on the grid.....nearly a second behind P2.... Made a great start off the line and held my position. Bloody engine gave up going through the dip. Sums up my season....

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« Reply #10 on: October 20, 2013, 10:06:13 PM +0100 »

Screen went on energysave after i took the lead when Tristan crashed out at T2. Couldnt see anything, and crashed. Bent the suspension, and couldnt take any right turns, so i stopped Sad

Great to be back though!

Maarten
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« Reply #11 on: October 20, 2013, 10:19:37 PM +0100 »

This makes it sound like if he's not a genius  [& I'm clearly not saying that!]  then braking later/power-on earlier is cheating somehow...? Smiley
LOL, I'm not suggesting any cheating but the fact that he seems to have more grip than me might be because he is better at getting heat into the tyres than I am.  I've just done 17 laps in training mode.  It took at least 6 laps for the car to start to feel anything like grippy.  For the first couple of laps it was like driving on ice.  My tyre temps got slowly warmer until on lap 16 I managed to set a new PB.  At this point my tyre temps were still light blue:

LF
RF
O
M
I
I
M
O
206 208 209 225 225 219
LR
RR
O
M
I
I
M
O
217 219 218 214 214 211

My understanding is that 200 to 240 is optimum.  So would 240 be green???  Is Hristo running at 240?  Clive must be running a lot hotter than that Grin

I can up the tyre pressures to get more heat in the tyre but the middle will get hotter (even temperatures should mean optimum grip).  I can't seem to drive hard enough to generate enough heat (i.e. with the rear sliding about a lot like Clive and Martin) without crashing.  I'm hoping to do something so that I'm a bit more competitive this Sunday.  The Works is a tough division!




Well........... in almost any race and any mod my problem is 99% rear tyre temps, and yes, almost certainly caused by sliding the car and using the throttle to steer. I probably do this more aggressively than most drivers and I have had to learn how to keep a car on track with dodgy rear end grip. I almost NEVER get the front tyres remotely warm, they stay in the cool blue range.

As for what constitutes the ideal temp for tyres. I seem to recall that in the little handbook that was sold along with the original Papyrus GPL CD they gave a value of 240F as an ideal target, and once you exceed 260F the grip level drops off. Plus, the further you push the temps beyond 260F the more unpredictable the behaviour of the rear tyre becomes. Until at around 300F things get stupid!!. The result is a car that will snap into oversteer mid corner or squirm uncontrollably under acceleration if the rears are cooked. If the fronts get that hot I think you can forget any hope of directional control from the steering.

I have noticed that the 65's grip levels drop off at around 200F-210F and during an online chat with a nameless developer he confirmed that there was a difference between the 67 and the 65 temperature range. If there are more variations for the other mods I do not know.

In the Oulton Race which I have just left with suspension modified so that right hand turns were a no-go option ahem!!  Roll Eyes, the rears were occasionally up to +280F and the fronts were sub 190F. I find that I have to concentrate very hard to modulate the throttle and avoid wheelspin during a race to maintain my pace but also allow the tyres to recover, before I push hard again. Of course if you find yourself away and clear , it is much easier to keep things sensible. But in the heat of battle I find that the temps creep up very easily lol!
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« Reply #12 on: October 20, 2013, 10:33:37 PM +0100 »

I have a little text file where I collect all the tire info I  could find:
Quote
'67--261 F, 24 psi ft, 26 rear

'65--187 F, 24, 26 = 165C - 180C

'66--207 F, 26, 26

'69--261 F, 24, 26

'69X--261 F, 24, 26

'Sports Cars--261 F, 32, 32.= 220C - 220C

'P910--261 F, 28, 28 . = 193C - 193C

'67F2--261 F, 24, 26

'CanAm--261 F, 24, 24


'67--127,2 C, 24 psi ft, 26 rear

'65--86,1 F, 24, 26

'69--127,2 F, 24, 26

'Sports Cars--261 F, 32, 32.

'P910--261 F, 28, 28

'65, '67, 69, '69 Extra--24F/26R
'66--26F/26R
'67 Sports Cars--P910 28F/28R, All others 32F/32R


The '66 mod tires all use an optimum pressure of 26 psi and 207 degrees F.

The '69 and '69 Extra tires use the same optimum pressure and temps.
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« Reply #13 on: October 20, 2013, 10:58:38 PM +0100 »

A tough race that. I was over 2 seconds off the pace in quali and down in 6th place so wasn't expecting much of a result. Managed to get off the line well and passed Bob for 5th. That became 4th after Arf had his engine detonate on the first lap. That first half of the race was really hard work. I couldn't get close enough to Ray to have a go at passing him but Bob was all over my back end and managed to overtake me into Knickerbrook. There was no time to relax though as Clive then crawled all over my gearbox. I was fortunate Oulton is such a difficult track to pass on, and managed to keep hold of 5th place. That became 3rd after Tristan and Marteen retired. Trying to catch Ray I braked too late into the first corner and was lucky to survive. At this point Clive had also fallen by the wayside and I was in a safe 3rd place, so I opted to drive steadily to the finish, conserving the engine of the Cooper. I didn't want a repeat of Valentino that's for sure.

Congrats to Ray and Bob for their podiums and to Andy and Dave for finishing. No mean feat at a track like this  Smiley.
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« Reply #14 on: October 21, 2013, 01:06:43 PM +0100 »

hi Smiley
 I was hoping a good fight with Marteen, but I had some little lags sometimes and it's happend between t1 and t2 and that was enought to lost my line and I put my rights wheels in the grass when I had to brake for the t3 !!!!!......so I start a looooong uncontrolable spinn in the grass and finaly hit something and lost a wheel ......arrggllll !

.....see you next one .....Wink
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