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  • S2567W Montjuich Park: November 10, 2013
November 10, 2013, 10:41:48 PM +0000 - Montju√Įc Park - UKGPL Season 25 (2013) Works Trophy (67)
Driver
 Team
Nat. Make Model Class Qualifying Race
Tyres Pos Time/Gap Pos Time/Gap Laps Stops Best Retirement
reason
Ballast
EvilClive
 Blue Moose Racing
Honda RA300 F1 1967 3 +0.436
94.346mph
1 49:19.751
93.000mph
31 1:33.874
94.587mph
Firestone  
Samb
 Black Night Racing
Cooper T81b (Maserati) F1 1967 4 +0.685
94.097mph
2 +2.540
92.920mph
31 1:33.728
94.734mph
Firestone  
MagicArsouille
 
Brabham BT24 (Repco) F1 1967 5 +0.810
93.972mph
3 +18.169
92.433mph
31 1:34.026
94.434mph
Goodyear  
Phil Thornton
 Antipasti Racing
Ferrari 312 (1967) F1 1967 10 +2.507
92.314mph
4 (+2) +1:29.752
90.263mph
31 1:35.421
93.053mph
Firestone  
Rainier
 Black Night Racing
Ferrari 312 (1967) F1 1967 11 +2.902
91.937mph
5 +1L
89.756mph
30 1:36.321
92.184mph
Firestone  
DLogan
 
Brabham BT24 (Repco) F1 1967 6 +1.412
93.377mph
6 +3L
83.989mph
28 1:35.945
92.545mph
Goodyear  
Arf Arf Arf
 Team Baarf
Ferrari 312 (1967) F1 1967 1 1:33.678
94.785mph
7 +10L
92.403mph
21 1:33.965
94.495mph
Disco
Firestone  
Ronniepeterson
 
BRM P115 F1 1967 8 +1.906
92.895mph
8 +14L
90.168mph
17 1:36.528
91.986mph
Disco
Goodyear  
Turkey Machine
 HikiWazaRacing
Lotus 49 (Cosworth) F1 1967 7 +1.623
93.171mph
9 +15L
89.922mph
16 1:35.438
93.037mph
Disco
Firestone  
Baab
 Team Baarf
Brabham BT24 (Repco) F1 1967 2 +0.270
94.512mph
10 +20L
91.982mph
11 1:34.045
94.415mph
Disco
Goodyear  
AndyL
 
Ferrari 312 (1967) F1 1967 9 +2.146
92.662mph
11 +31L
---
0 ---
---
Disco
Firestone  
Gpg UKGPL
 
Ferrari 312 (1967) F1 1967 12 12 DNS ---
---
Firestone  

Moderator's Report

SUMMARY
An incident packed race saw the master of slide, Evil Clive come out on top with a very impressive display in the mighty Honda. Sam Blood managed to get his Cooper up into second spot with Tristan claiming the final podium place in his Brabham.


Server replay time: 0h01m10s

Lap 1 - El Angulo - Ronnie Peterson and Dean Logan
Ronnie and Dean are side by side round El Angulo; Ronnie on the inside and Dean on the outside. As they accelerate away towards Rosaleda they are side by side but Ronnie moves over and contact is made. Both drivers continue with no discernible damage.

Dean did nothing wrong and was entitled to maintain his line which would have given him the inside line into Rosaleda. Ronnie could not see Dean, but he was in clear view from the cockpit on the apex of El Angulo so Ronnie should have expected the Brabham to be along side until it was clearly visible in his mirrors. Ronnie should have stayed left and given Dean room.


Server replay time: 0h01m17s

Lap 1 - El Angulo - Andy Livingston and Phil Thornton
Phil gets a better drive out of El Angulo and leads Andy down towards Rosaleda. Unfortunately the contact between Ronnie and Dean means Phil has to brake heavily to avoid contact and Andy has to take similar avoiding action by jinking left. Dean and Ronnie recover which leaves Phil and Andy side by side on the run down to Rosaleda. Andy leaves room for Phil but only just enough (Andy's car straddles the center line). Racing this close risks warp contact and sure enough Andy's car suddenly leaps sideways even though there is no actual contact on the server replay.

Neither Phil or Andy did anything wrong but if Andy had left a little more room the warp contact may not have happened.

  • Racing incident


Server replay time: 0h01m40s

Lap 1 - Teatro Griego - Andy Livingston and Phil Thornton
Andy brakes earlier than Phil expects and consequently Phil runs into the back of Andy. There is clear contact on the server and whilst it is fairly minor on Phil's client it was clearly catastrophic on Andy's which resulted in his Ferrari being catapulted over the straw bales into the crowd and out of the race.

This was clearly Phil's fault but the contact was exacerbated by warp and the rather overzealous GPL collision engine. Phil's car was undamaged whereas Andy's was practically sent into orbit. Nevertheless Phil must shoulder responsibility for the contact.

  • Phil Thorntonpenalty — Simple Rear End Shunt = 1 place + extra place for first lap incident. — 2 places lost


Server replay time: 0h02m45s

Lap 2 - El Angulo - Sam Blood, Tristan Bot and Jethro Walters
Tristan tries to pass Sam on the outside into El Angulo. He has significant overlap at turn-in so he is entitled to challenge for the corner. Tristan aims for the apex but he is not far enough ahead to be able to move across without contact being made. Tristan spins out, collecting Jethro in the process, but Sam continues unaffected.

Tristan had more than 100% overlap at turn-in and if he had held the inside line he would have been entitled to claim the corner outright, Sam would have had to yield and remained wide. However, Tristan was attempting to go around the outside, he cut across Sam and left him no room at all. Sam had no visibility of Tristan until he appeared directly in front of him. Contact was inevitable.

Sam did nothing wrong. He was entitled to take a defensive inside line. Tristan was entitled to challenge for the corner but he would have been wise to stay wide until he was sure he had completed the pass.

Good driving from Dean Logan in allowing Jethro room to rejoin safely.

  • Racing incident


Server replay time: 0h03m59s

Lap 2 - Sant Jordi - Tristan Bot, Jethro Walters and Dean Logan
Jethro runs a bit wide and has to correct a nasty flick to oversteer which puts him directly in the path of Tristan. Contact is made and Jethro spins. Dean can't avoid Jethro who is by now in the middle of the track and facing the wrong way. Thankfully all the drivers could continue apparently unaffected.

  • Racing incident


Server replay time: 0h17m47s

Lap 11 - Rosaleda - Jethro Walters and Phil Thornton
Jethro gets a bit too close to Phil under braking into Rosaleda and contact is made.

It could be argued that Jethro is at fault here but the contact is minimal on the server replay. There was very minor contact on Phil's server replay and nothing on Jethro's. So this has to go down as a warp incident.

  • Racing incident

SimRacing.org.uk Lap Records
Grand Prix Legends
F1 1967
1:33.678
94.837mph
Arf Arf Arf
Qualifying
Ferrari 312 (1967)November 10, 2013, 10:41:48 PM +0000
S2567W
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Author Topic: UKGPL Season 25 (2013) Works Trophy (67) - Montjuich Park - Nov 10  (Read 3327 times)
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Phil Thornton
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« on: November 05, 2013, 11:04:17 PM +0000 »

Season 25 Works Trophy, Round 8, Montjuich Park

Welcome to the eighth round in the Works Trophy.  After a couple of rounds in England we are back on the continent, this time in sunny Spain.

Montjuich Parque is a street circuit on Montjuich mountain above Barcelona. It is a twisty tricky circuit that was the site of the tragic 1975 Spanish Grand Prix. Many drivers felt that the circuit was unsafe, and two time world champion Emerson Fittipaldi withdrew in protest before the start of the race. On lap 26 the Embassy Hill-Lola car of Rolf Stommelen left the track, killing five people. The race was subsequently stopped at half distance and half points awarded, with Jochen Mass being recorded as the winner. Lella Lombardi became the first female driver to score world championship points, taking 0.5 points for 6th place. Formula One never returned to the circuit after the accident.

As always, we will run Pro Damage, so resets are not allowed.

Race List = IGOR
Server = UKGPL_GPG
IP address = 62.195.2.111
Race date = 10-11-2013
Race Time = race starts at 21:30 UK time
Qualifying Time = Between 30 and 60 minutes, starting no later than 21:00 UK time
Track = Montjuich Parque
Variant = 67F1
Damage Model = PRO
Race length = 50 minutes (laps 31)
Password: see above

Replays Available here

Driver lists can be found on the championship standings page

The full time drivers can start to practice as soon as the server is available.  Reserve drivers can also join as soon as the server becomes available but must leave the server with 35 minutes of qualifying left, for a total of 5 minutes; this will allow any remaining full timers to join.  If there is enough space on the grid, the reserve drivers will be able to rejoin when there are 30 mins of qualifying left. 

Moderating The red zone will be fully moderated for lap 1 only. For this event the red zone will be from the start to La Pergola. Other moderation will be on reported incidents only.  However any incidents that occur in the red zone that are not reported by the drivers will be reported by the moderator.  This will allow all affected drivers the opportunity to present their case before the incident is moderated.  This should ensure there are no surprises when the moderator's report is published and hence appeals will be less likely.  If you haven't received a PM about an incident before the link below the results table is removed, you can be sure that you will not appear in the moderator's report.

The chassis token system is explained on the Works standings page. Please ensure you choose a chassis that is within your budget, which can be seen by hovering the mouse over your points total in the standings.

Please restrict chat to pit messages including at the end of the race until ALL drivers still racing have crossed the line.
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Arf Arf Arf
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« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2013, 10:34:37 PM +0000 »

That was heartbreaking.....All week I had been fastest on practice servers, regularly do 133.3s, with a best of 133.14 - and that with massively uneven tyre temps across the left tyres. I was sure that if I could balance them out I'd be in the 132s. In warm up tonight I was having some graphical glitches, but nothing too serious, and worse still I was consistently doing 134s, with no idea why. In trying to sort this, I lost time to make final arrangements for my race setup, and that was to cost me dearly later. Somehow I managed to set a mid 133 and grab my first Works pole....but I had to make some quick decisions on my race setup, and as Baab, Clive and Samb will tell you, they weren't very good ones. They were the unfortunates who had to sit behind me on what is a difficult track to pass wondering why I was suddenly so slow..

As far as I could see, everyone made a safe passage through T1, but I knew already I was driving a dog as slowing down for the hairpin was terrifying. I briefly thought I'd be OK as I pulled away from Baab and Clive as the lap went on, but they soon came back at me, and quickly. However, wasn't it Gilles Villneueve that kept 6/7 people behind him for a whole race just by being consistent, in the late 70s/early 80s?? I was in a Ferrari too, so thought I'd have a go at it. Any hope of doing this was shattered when my steering wheel came loose c. Lap 9, and this forced me to drive one handed whilst trying to screw the G25 down, and gave Clive what little he needed to get past. Baab had already had a spin, and I could see Samb in the distance behind me...and then 1 lap later he was right up my jacksie. Not sure how long I held him off, but a botched downshift sent me off to the side, and he was away. I chased with little hope for a few laps, until he seemed to slow down, and I could see a chance. The lightening fuel load was gradually making my car easier to drive, as demonstrated by the fact I managed to take fastest lap on L21 (doubt I'll still have that at the end of the race...).... and then I ruined all the hard work on L22 by binning it at T3 and blowing the engine trying to get back on track....

Nice to have a pole, and even nicer to mix it with the big boys for a change. Still, I'm leaving Barcelona with the feeling that was a podium lost... Well done to anyone that finishes...and esp Clive who fettled 2 secs a lap out his car since Friday!

Arf
« Last Edit: November 10, 2013, 10:37:06 PM +0000 by Arf Arf Arf » Logged
Rainier
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« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2013, 10:52:15 PM +0000 »

8th race of the season 25 and 7th winner !

From my side, I did not like this track and I just managed to see the chequered flag.
Sometimes I thought I could fight with Phil Thornton but he was a little bit quicker than me.
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Phil Thornton
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« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2013, 11:17:12 PM +0000 »

Firstly apologies to Andy for the shunt on lap 1, I was probably following a bit too close but there is no way the contact should have catapulted you over the straw bales.  The contact was minor but GPL decided it was catastrophic Sad.  I'll submit a report.

The early part of the race was quite good.  I had a decent battle with Dave, Jethro, Dean and Ronnie until I got tagged and lost touch with the bunch.  As luck would have it I got the places back when people started to retire for various reasons.  End of the race was familiar, David hunting me down but this time I managed to  remain focused and kept the car on the track.  Not getting lapped here was a good result for me.
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« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2013, 11:45:03 PM +0000 »

I had a cracking race  Smiley. Having said that I did manage to have a troublesome qualifying, being over a second off my best efforts earlier in the week. It certainly took me a while to get in the groove tonight. Qualified a lucky 4th by the end of it all.

The start went well and did my best to keep up with the leading trio of Colin, Clive and Bob. My Cooper, however, had other ideas and was a pig so drive on cold types with race fuel. On the second lap Tristan got caught out by my extremely cautious approach into turn 1 and tried to make a move on the outside of me, only for me to give him a clout on the entry of turn 1. Apologies for that Tristan, but there just wasn't quite enough space for the pair of us and we were pretty much side by side, unless my memory deceives me. Might have to check the replay to be sure.

From that point on it wad a case of me trying desperately to catch the leaders. Took me a while but I managed to close in on Bob who lost the back end as I was bearing down on him, I then had to try and pass Colin who was driving very well in that Fezza of his. I simply couldn't find a way through and knew that I would have to wait for a mistake on his part for any chance of me to pass. That eventually happened several laps later and I was up the second.

Clive was now someway ahead in the distance and from this point my concentration was wearing thin. A couple of poor laps later I had Colin bearing down on me again and it dawned on me that if I wanted to keep 2nd, I better get a move on. I managed to get in the groove again somewhat and tried in vain to catch Clive. Our pace was similar and it wasn't until a few laps from the end, when he had a spin, that I was bearing down on him. My chase lasted a lap, and a half spin into turn one thwarted any chance of victory.

Great drive there Clive, you fully deserved that win. Congrats to everyone that finished and hard luck to those that didn't. See you all next week for the madness in the F2's  Smiley.
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« Reply #5 on: November 11, 2013, 12:27:35 AM +0000 »

Thanks Phil. You saved me the bother of tiptoeing around at the back again hoping others would drop off before I did. It's not really racing, but it can be very effective in this division. I find this track very awkward and I had low expectations of any result tonight. Congratulations to all who managed to finish, especially Clive winning in the Honda. I suppose his tail happy style is most useful on this track.
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« Reply #6 on: November 11, 2013, 10:08:34 AM +0000 »

Friday's practice race with Colin threw up some warning signs about the likely pace of this race. I had mentally opted for the Brabham as a safe 10 token reliable car around a circuit that needed some predictable handling.
SO, I hear you ask, why the heck did you drive the Honda???!!!  Huh

Well, I tried the Brabham but I had no previous setup for this track or any other that immediately felt good, but I remembered that we had raced here a few seasons ago and that the Honda had seemed hooked up.

A bit of digging in the setup archives with much blowing of dust and swearing unearthed that setup. The reality was that it was NOT as good as I remembered and Friday's laps following Colin's quick Fezza reinforced that view. OK I thought, time to carefully read the setup topic on the forum and see if I could dial out the negatives from this setup by using those guidelines, just to prove that they work.  Wink

Just for those who have not yet been tempted to develop their own setups .......
First of all I looked at where I was fighting the car,
The car I started with had too much understeer and was very twitchy over the jump and braking for T1. Plus far too much wheelspin which was lighting up the right rear tyre.

I tried to forget anything that I had done before and simply read the info and apply an adjustment, as if I was new to the whole process.
Slowly the car began to yield faster laptimes, but it also needed a slight change in driving style to extract the benefits. After about 45 mins and several evolutions of the setup I was driving a Honda that could just dip into the 1.33's on race fuel and could do consistent 1:34's. Even so, I still felt that it was unstable over that jump towards T1 and the final touch was to raise the ride height to 3" all round. Now I lost a couple of tenths on lap times but it would absorb the landing without sending the rear end on its own adventure so should prove more reliable in the race.
One very noticeable difference was that the original setup would be quick in the first lap with tyre temps getting up very quickly, the new version took 2-3laps to get warm and required the use of different gears to ensure stability until then.

I think my race pace was good and the development of the setup worked well. especially pleasing was the fact that at about 50% race distance all my tyre temps were green ( even the fronts!! and they NEVER get warm usually). Sure I had to be careful to minimise wheelspin and sliding to protect that right rear but I was lapping comfortably for most of the race.

So I think the info on that topic stands up and should work for most people. One thing I would suggest is that sometimes you need to apply one adjustment but back off another to get a good result. So if parameter "A" does not yield results try altering "B" and maybe ease off "A" if things go too much the other way.

I almost threw it all away on the last few laps when a moments loss of concentration resulted in a half spin squandering my comfy lead and giving Sam a sniff of a chance.
Hard Luck to Bob and Colin who were presenting a major problem in the early laps. I knew I could go faster, but just could not engineer a passing chance without them making mistakes. Bob chose to half spin  Wink and Colin decided to loosen his wheel.....very generous Grin. Sam was even gentlemanly enough to spin his car rather than challenge me for the top step of the podium Wink

Grats to all finishers on an unforgiving track..it takes no prisoners, only retirements!!




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Ronniepeterson
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« Reply #7 on: November 11, 2013, 03:44:40 PM +0000 »

Not one of my favourite tracks in the 67 cars it has to be said hence my choice of the BRM. The start went better than I expected over the hill and down to turn 1 but I did sense some contact on the run down to turn 2, not seen a replay so not sure who it was but sorry if I squeezed your space. A blown engine eventually put me out of my misery in the BRM. I guess that came as a relief to anyone who was stuck behind me as it is not easy to pass on this track.  

Grats to Clive, Sam,Tristan and everyone else who managed to finish.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2013, 07:37:35 PM +0000 by Ronniepeterson » Logged
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« Reply #8 on: November 12, 2013, 07:20:06 PM +0000 »

Not one of my favourite tracks in the 67 cars it has to be said hence my choice of the BRM. The start went better than I expected over the hill and down to turn 1 but I did I sense some contact on the run down to turn 2, not seen a replay so not sure who it was but sorry if I squeezed your space. A blown engine eventually put me out of my misery in the BRM. I guess that came as a relief to anyone who was stuck behind me as it is not easy to pass on this track. 

Grats to Clive, Sam,Tristan and everyone else who managed to finish.


Think I was behind you several times and despite the monumental grip of the Lotus in the quick bit I could not hook up the pass on you and the defensive line into T1 put paid to any real overtaking.

Phil: apologies if I tapped you on the run down the hill during our follow-the-leader trail, I think the contact may have been warp-aggravated as it did not look like it impacted on my end.

As for my race, I ummed and hissed at the choice of car for this event, between the Lotus and the Eagle. Neither car I could hook up, however I tuned the Lotus into something sensible in terms of easily being able to drive it, but I could not get the lap time down to anything resembling what it should have been.

Clive must have had that Honda hooked up like a railway, as he clearly had the legs on most and the sense to stay out of the walls. Congrats on a great win sir!
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« Reply #9 on: November 12, 2013, 10:46:20 PM +0000 »

Resisting the sexy allure of those armco barriers was tough, but I managed it! 

Well, when I say "managed", I mean I merely flirted with them on numerous occasions but did not allow them to get a firm grip on my extremities Roll Eyes.
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« Reply #10 on: November 12, 2013, 11:35:59 PM +0000 »

very difficult track for me , many lags and loosing FPS in some sections, setup far from perfection ...... so a podium is not so bad.... Grin

....rendez-vous at Laguna
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« Reply #11 on: November 13, 2013, 06:15:41 PM +0000 »

The start went better than I expected over the hill and down to turn 1 but I did sense some contact on the run down to turn 2, not seen a replay so not sure who it was but sorry if I squeezed your space.

Just watched the replay Dean. The contact was not intended on my part but I should have left you a lot more room and stayed over to the left, my fault. Sorry again.
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« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2013, 08:32:09 PM +0000 »

Nice one Clive, an awesome performance in a somewhat less than awesome car!  Pleased to hear you were able to hone your setup using the guide.  I freely admit to being appalling at setting up the car and generally use other people's setups and make sure the tyre temps are reasonably even, gearing appropriate, etc.  So your comment gives me hope!  Watching the replay I seemed to be sliding the car more than I realized, so little wonder my right rear was a tad hot.  I changed the ramps and added another clutch or two to try and manage the rear tyres, which worked to a certain extent.

The race itself was a disappointment.  I was surprised to find Arf lacking pace after his praccy times, but that's how it turned out.  The first few laps were tentative but after 2 or 3 I was stuck behind Arf with Clive breathing down my neck.  I had a brief lapse under braking at the end of the back straight as Arf's entry speed caught me out.  Luckily I didn't hit anything, but did let the Evil one by.  A lap or two later Clive managed to sneak past Arf onto the back straight and started to clear off.  A few laps after that I again misjudged Arf's pace and I spun into the barriers as a result of panic braking, resulting in a three wheeler.  I still find it difficult to battle safely at close quarters.

See you for the finale,

Bob.
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« Reply #13 on: November 17, 2013, 09:45:13 PM +0000 »

Mod report published. 
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