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  • S26His Le Mans: January 28, 2014
January 28, 2014, 10:56:15 PM +0000 - Le Mans (Sarthe (1932-67)) - UKGPL Season 26 (2014) Historic Trophy (66)
Driver
 Team
Nat. Make Model Class Qualifying Race
Tyres Pos Time/Gap Pos Time/Gap Laps Stops Best Retirement
reason
Ballast
Tom van Ostade
 Antipasti Racing
Ferrari 312 (1966) F1 1966 1 3:28.756
144.262mph
1 52:55.949
142.236mph
15 3:29.777
143.560mph
Firestone  
MagicArsouille
 
Ferrari 312 (1966) F1 1966 2 +0.139
144.166mph
2 +57.888
139.690mph
15 3:29.882
143.488mph
Firestone  
EvilClive
 Blue Moose Racing
Honda RA273 F1 1966 12 +6.650
139.808mph
3 +59.614
139.615mph
15 3:33.212
141.247mph
Goodyear  
maddog
 Antipasti Racing
Ferrari 312 (1966) F1 1966 8 +5.143
140.793mph
4 +1:17.319
138.855mph
15 3:32.479
141.734mph
Firestone  
AnGex
 Black Night Racing
Cooper T81 (Maserati) F1 1966 11 +6.294
140.040mph
5 +1:47.316
137.587mph
15 3:35.263
139.901mph
Firestone  
Turkey Machine
 HikiWazaRacing
BRM P83 F1 1966 9 +5.404
140.622mph
6 +3L
141.227mph
12 3:29.887
143.485mph
accident
Goodyear  
francesco
 Antipasti Racing
Ferrari 312 (1966) F1 1966 10 +6.186
140.110mph
7 (+3) +11L
132.584mph
4 3:38.835
137.618mph
Disco
Firestone  
Cookie
 Antipasti Racing
Ferrari 312 (1966) F1 1966 3 +0.963
143.600mph
8 +15L
---
0 ---
---
accident
Firestone  
Flow
 Black Night Racing
Ferrari 312 (1966) F1 1966 4 +1.878
142.976mph
9 (+3)
---
0 ---
---
Disco
Firestone  
DLogan
 
Ferrari 312 (1966) F1 1966 6 +2.714
142.411mph
10
---
0 ---
---
Disco
Firestone  
Ronniepeterson
 
Brabham BT19 (Repco) F1 1966 7 +4.865
140.977mph
11
---
0 ---
---
Disco
Goodyear  
Rainier
 Black Night Racing
Ferrari 312 (1966) F1 1966 5 +2.407
142.618mph
12
---
0 ---
---
Disco
Firestone  
BadBlood
 Blue Moose Racing
Eagle T1G (Weslake 1966) F1 1966 14 13
---
0 ---
---
accident
Goodyear  
2 UKGPL_T7
 
Ferrari 312 (1966) F1 1966 13 14 DNS ---
---
Firestone  

Moderator's Report

Two accidents on the 1st lap and the 1st turn...
The race could have been very funny on such a track, unfortunately almost 50% of the drivers could not finish the 1st lap :(

In both cases, the driver responsible of the accident changed his line and went into another driver.

From my PoV, you should use Pribluda : if you see no gap (0.0) it means you are side by side with another driver.

If you don't want to or cannot use Pribluda, you have to use F10 view !
If you don't want to or cannot drive with F10 view, you must not change your line during the red zone !


Server replay time: 0h00m59s

Jethro took a very quick start but too dangerous in this situation. He was almost chopping Martin's nose, and makes a very bold move in T1 on Ronnie.

But in the end he doesn't touch anyone, holds his line and keeps his nose clean...so no penalty, just a caution.


Server replay time: 0h01m00s

Violent side by side contact between Axel Cookie and Florian Gebhardt during lap one red zone.

Axel did no error but Florian could not see any car in his mirrors but he changed his line and had a great responsibility in the carnage that followed this accident.


Server replay time: 0h01m03s

David Rainier had a very slow start and, thanks to the gap with leaders, he could see the accident in front of his car, and he could brake and slow his car.
That was quite the same for Andreas Gebhardt but even if he could see what happened he did not slow his car at the right time, he also did not try to avoid the accident by changing his line and so he rear ended Rainier...


Server replay time: 0h01m05s

A second accident occured between Fran Molteni and Evil Clive, it was quite the same as Axel vs Florian :
Clive did no mistake but Fran changed his line and had a side by side contact with Clive.

Paul Whitfield was an innocent victim of this 2nd accident.

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Author Topic: UKGPL Season 26 (2014) Historic Trophy (66) - Le Mans - Jan 28  (Read 12044 times)
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Turkey Machine
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« Reply #60 on: February 10, 2014, 08:16:35 PM +0000 »

@Flow: I say this from experience... if you don't take heed of any penalties that you may receive, or any incidents you may be involved in, you will accumulate penalties, and will be forced to take a back seat for a while. (see my 65 series in S18, only time from memory that a UKGPL driver's been penalised this much, and I have learnt from it and try and keep my nose clean: https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?action=LM2R&group=222&theme=6)
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Everyone knows that million-to-one chances happen 9 times out of 10. Why the hell do I keep crashing then?!
Rainier
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« Reply #61 on: February 10, 2014, 08:52:17 PM +0000 »

I have a question. Who is the moderator that posted the report and who decided to do the punishments and why is the penalty 3 places and not 2, 4, 1 or 10 places?

Florian
Now, you are asking questions that you should knew BEFORE the race.
You should have read this page (indicating you the specific rules about Historics season and who is the moderator)
  https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?action=LM2R&group=429&theme=6
And moreover the penalties guidelines :
https://www.ukgpl.com/index.php/rules/penalties 


Quote from: Flow
And btw, if you think punishment achieves anything good, you are wrong. The one who is without sin may throw the first stone. Punishment for "wrong" behavior is like the mom that slaps her 5 year old for smacking his brother.
Thats your point of view, and like another PoV it could be respectable BUT there are written rules and nobody should ignore it.
Somebody wrote this “Entre le fort et le faible, entre le riche et le pauvre, entre le maître et le serviteur, c'est la liberté qui opprime et la loi qui affranchit »
which could be translated in
« Between the strong and the weak, between the rich and the poor man, between master and servant, it is the freedom which oppresses and the law which frees “
Personally, I would have (slightly, of course) slap my 5 years old boy in the situation you described.

What I feel very disappointing is at any time, you started any apologies to other drivers you ruined their race. 
By the way, a penalty of 3 places will change nothing to the championship as you already had 0 point for this race. In such a case, I think the rules should be updated (remove some points, force the driver to start  at the end of the next race grid …but in this case he will be a danger for slow drivers ! not easy)

There you have it. Crashing into someone is of course "wrong". Why? Because right and false do not exist. Therefore wrong doesn´t exist.

It seems you are really very young  Shocked  Shocked  Shocked  Cheesy

Edit: And thanks Arturo for making me realize this.

Which Arturo ?   Merzario ?
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Artiglietti
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« Reply #62 on: February 10, 2014, 08:53:13 PM +0000 »

I have a question. Who is the moderator that posted the report and who decided to do the punishments and why is the penalty 3 places and not 2, 4, 1 or 10 places? And btw, if you think punishment achieves anything good, you are wrong. The one who is without sin may throw the first stone. Punishment for "wrong" behavior is like the mom that slaps her 5 year old for smacking his brother.

It is called having rules and setting in place a system that encourages people to respect them. How would you go about that business Florian?

The number of places you have lost is determined by the above mentioned rules, which are easily accessible to everyone on this site.

Actually, if it were for me, I think it would be useful to have a statistic of the accidents created by each single driver within the season. I think it is easy to lose sight of the bigger picture, convincing yourself that clashes with others are just an inevitable part of the game. Crashing into someone else is not 'wrong', it is just wrong.

Cool that you ask me. I would rip apart every single rule and would have no rule at all. A system can´t "encourage" people to respect them. Either they do respect themselves or they do not. A system does not change anything. Why do you think punishment encourages people to respect each other? There is really no link between the one and the other. It just doesn´t work this way. As you can see in RL. It does NOT work. You are trying to convince yourself that clashes with others are no inevitable part of the game. You want a proof? The system exists, clashes still happen. So it didn´t change anything. There you have it. Crashing into someone is of course "wrong". Why? Because right and false do not exist. Therefore wrong doesn´t exist.

Edit: And thanks Arturo for making me realize this.

Ah, ok. Well, never mind then...It is Attilio though.
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Flow
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« Reply #63 on: February 11, 2014, 03:31:26 AM +0000 »

@TurkeyMachine Do you really think you became a better driver because of the penalties in S18 and not by getting more experienced because of driving in more races? What you said there seems like a rationalization to me.

I have a question. Who is the moderator that posted the report and who decided to do the punishments and why is the penalty 3 places and not 2, 4, 1 or 10 places?

Florian
Now, you are asking questions that you should knew BEFORE the race.
You should have read this page (indicating you the specific rules about Historics season and who is the moderator)
  https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?action=LM2R&group=429&theme=6
And moreover the penalties guidelines :
https://www.ukgpl.com/index.php/rules/penalties 


Quote from: Flow
And btw, if you think punishment achieves anything good, you are wrong. The one who is without sin may throw the first stone. Punishment for "wrong" behavior is like the mom that slaps her 5 year old for smacking his brother.
Thats your point of view, and like another PoV it could be respectable BUT there are written rules and nobody should ignore it.
Somebody wrote this “Entre le fort et le faible, entre le riche et le pauvre, entre le maître et le serviteur, c'est la liberté qui opprime et la loi qui affranchit »
which could be translated in
« Between the strong and the weak, between the rich and the poor man, between master and servant, it is the freedom which oppresses and the law which frees “
Personally, I would have (slightly, of course) slap my 5 years old boy in the situation you described.

What I feel very disappointing is at any time, you started any apologies to other drivers you ruined their race. 
By the way, a penalty of 3 places will change nothing to the championship as you already had 0 point for this race. In such a case, I think the rules should be updated (remove some points, force the driver to start  at the end of the next race grid …but in this case he will be a danger for slow drivers ! not easy)

There you have it. Crashing into someone is of course "wrong". Why? Because right and false do not exist. Therefore wrong doesn´t exist.

It seems you are really very young  Shocked  Shocked  Shocked  Cheesy

Edit: And thanks Arturo for making me realize this.

Which Arturo ?   Merzario ?


Well, my PoV is the opposite. Everybody should ignore the written rules. You dont follow a rule only because I wrote it down do you? But I can´t find the source in the guidelines. Who wrote them all? I can´t find any names. I want to ask him about them, especially about my case.

Quote
"Side by Side Contact

The limited lateral view in GPL makes incidents of this type very likely. However they can be avoided if drivers are cognizant of the position, or expected position, of other cars. This requires the development of a sixth sense to be sure where all the other cars are, especially on the first lap. However, if in doubt drivers should always leave room.

The key features to consider here are:

    Was the shunter in control?
    Was the victim in control?
    How much overlap had been achieved?

Typical Scenarios:

Blatant Side by Side contact: Penalty 2 Places

    On a straight, the overtaking car moves out to overtake but cuts back in too early. The victim made no mistakes and was driving their normal line at normal speed. The shunter made no allowance for the victim whatsoever and was in full control when the incident took place. There was no loss of control. Penalty for overtaking driver.
    On a straight, the overtaking car moves out to overtake, maintains his line and has achieved 100% overlap but the overtaken driver moves across into him. There was no loss of control. Penalty for overtaken driver.

Simple Side by Side contact: Penalty 1 Place

    On a straight, the overtaking car moves out to overtake but cuts back in too early. There was some loss of control. Penalty for overtaking driver.
    On a straight, the overtaking car moves out to overtake, maintains his line and has NOT achieved 100% overlap but the overtaken driver moves across into him. Penalty for overtaken driver.
    On a straight, the overtaking car moves out to overtake and both drivers drift off line. Penalty for both drivers.
    In a corner, after a legitimate overtaking attempt the cars end up side by side. One driver moves over instead of staying on their own side of the track. Contact is made. Penalty for driver that moves over.

Marginal Side by Side contact: Warning

    In a corner, after a legitimate overtaking attempt the cars end up side by side. One driver looses control and strays from their side of the track. Contact is made. Warning for driver that moves over.

Contested Side by Side contact: Racing Incident

    In a corner, after a legitimate overtaking attempt the cars end up side by side. Both drivers move over instead of staying on their own side of the track. Contact is made. Racing Incident."

Blatant side by side contact, why 2 Places? Why not 1, 3 or 4?

Simple Side by Side contact, why 1 place. Why not 2, 3 or 4?

What the person who wrote that says is that the game itself has limited lateral view. He says that one has to develop a sixth sense in order to be aware of the position of every other car. Is that sixth sense developed by penalties or by driving more?

Another problem is what is if I don´t understand this text at all, because English is not my native language? For example I would bet that Tristan has a huge problem to understand all that rules, but he drives anyway and is a very quick driver.

The sentence that Henri Lacordaire wrote there is horrible! It reminds me of 1984, where people say things like war is peace and peace is war. The thing is he might not have had the same opinion in his life after writing this. I read in short about his life on wiki and it said that he revoked all the things he had said in the "avenir". So if the sentence is from that time he later said the opposite. Problem is we can´t ask him now about that. But the thing is only because a person says something it doesn´t mean it´s true. You wouldn´t be my opinion only because I said Tarso Marques is the greatest driver of all time, would you?

Don´t you see the bittersweet irony in that situation with the mom and her 5 year old? The mom thinks the behavior of her son is wrong towards his brothers. She thinks it is not ok that he hurts his brother physically. And so what she does? She hurts her son physically because he hurts someoneelse physically. How can you make clear to someone that stealing is wrong by stealing him? In fact what the mom did there is she basically showed him that it is in fact ok that he does that to his brother. The next time his brothers takes his candys he thinks even more, yes now i have to smack him. And then mom does the same to him. It´s a vicious circle, can´t you see?

Why do you feel disappointed that I didn´t apologize? I explained myself and I do not feel any guilt, so I have no reason to apologize. Only because you think I am guilty I don´t have to think the same, do I?

I don´t care that a penalty of 3 places changes nothing. I don´t talk about this because I feel the need to achieve something better for myself. I talk about this because I feel all this penalty stuff doesn´t make sense. So who can in fact update this text? I wanna talk to him and ask him if it is possible to delete the whole text.

So how young do you have to be to make that statement that right and wrong doesn´t exist? And if it exists, who knows what is right and wrong? You? The parents teaching their children? Children should not become grownups, grownups should become children.

I know that I know nothing - Sokrates
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maddog
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« Reply #64 on: February 11, 2014, 12:39:03 PM +0000 »

There are 2 types of racing in the Sims world - there is Offline, and there is Online.  Offline you make the rules.  Online, someone else makes the rules. Undecided

In the real world, if you break the rules, you go to jail.  In our world, you get penalty points.  If we were all perfect, there would be no need for rules.
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Rainier
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« Reply #65 on: February 11, 2014, 03:25:41 PM +0000 »

"Freedom without rules" means "the strongest are making the law"  2guns


I cannot see any link with Orwell's 1984 : war is peace, peace is war ...this is exactly the opposite.
 

  If we were all perfect, there would be no need for rules.

No more to say !
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BadBlood
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« Reply #66 on: February 11, 2014, 04:14:40 PM +0000 »

I don´t care that a penalty of 3 places changes nothing. I don´t talk about this because I feel the need to achieve something better for myself. I talk about this because I feel all this penalty stuff doesn´t make sense. So who can in fact update this text? I wanna talk to him and ask him if it is possible to delete the whole text.
You can talk to me - PM is probably easiest although there is nothing to hide. Drivers forum maybe? - this is a race thread and we are now way off talking about the race.

So how young do you have to be to make that statement that right and wrong doesn´t exist? And if it exists, who knows what is right and wrong? You? The parents teaching their children? Children should not become grownups, grownups should become children.
The existential stream of consciousness is interesting but ultimately futile. The rules exist and if you drive with us you implicitly agree to be bound by them. That is the deal. In that context right and wrong emphatically DO exist.
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Turkey Machine
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« Reply #67 on: February 11, 2014, 07:37:59 PM +0000 »

@Flow: both. Smiley
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Tom van Ostade
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« Reply #68 on: February 11, 2014, 11:23:08 PM +0000 »

The rules are made in order to make sure that everybody has as much chance of finishing as possible. If you'd have complied, you could've continued the race, and possibly won. Do you not want to win?
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