UKGPL Season 26 (2014) Formula Two Trophy - Hockenheim - Jan 19

[BadBlood]

Even 24 drivers racing gives us a problem as you all voted for full time.

If people feel strongly that they want to race a mix of drivers then we can look at rotating the grids as we did with the Porsche championship a few seasons back.

Victim of its own success perhaps.

[Cookie]

So why not do
- one Championship
with
- 2 grids rotating at every race
- combining the results into one table

At the end you can crown the best Heavy to Champ by its place on the table

[Ronniepeterson]

Sorry to sound like a whining kid but I'm with Dean on this one. The need to complete 50% distance to score points had already reduced my incentive to practice and now being informed I'm competing for half the F2 title puts into question whether its worth practicing at all?

Because Axl with the handicap system I simply don't see how combining results and/or rotating the grids can be done in a fair manner. There are just too many variables for it to be applied fairly over both grids every race. Even assuming the two mixed ability grids are equal, you would need the same number of drivers, finishers, penalties etc  every race to make it fair. Oh and no extra drivers joining mid season etc.

I'm amazed the heavy drivers are so resigned to this format. I need to get into their mind set and get on with it I suppose.

[maddog]

It is unfortunate that at Ukgpl, so many victims prefer to remain silent.  Last Season, there was a move to allow rule changes during the Season.  I thought this was recognized as a mistake.  You've all now been told the F2 championship points system, will be determined sometime later, and as the mood strikes.

There seems a lack of co-ordination, and concensus, amongst the Moderation team.  I don't think this F2 series has been properly thought out.  Please fix it, before you kill it. 

[DLogan]

Even 24 drivers racing gives us a problem as you all voted for full time...

When we get a full grid, it will be a problem. This silly rejigging immediately before the off (with a PROMISE of more arguing to come) has probably put paid to that. 

...If people feel strongly that they want to race a mix of drivers...

That is so not the issue.

I'm now proposing that all the "Light" drivers join one race (to be decided in chat beforehand), let the DQ's fall where they may for "joining wrong server" or whatever, go ahead and take away any points I may score towards a championship that I no longer care about. At least we can race against the people we signed up to race against, which is why I'm here in the first place.

[BadBlood]

It is unfortunate that at Ukgpl, so many victims prefer to remain silent.  Last Season, there was a move to allow rule changes during the Season.  I thought this was recognized as a mistake.  You've all now been told the F2 championship points system, will be determined sometime later, and as the mood strikes.

There seems a lack of co-ordination, and concensus, amongst the Moderation team.  I don't think this F2 series has been properly thought out.  Please fix it, before you kill it. 

As drivers register quite late we have to maintain the flexibility to run the series for the benefit of most people. This is not a 'rule change'. I have NOT said that the series regulations will be determined later. Bill has been very clear about how he intends to run it. What I have said is that we may need to look at the way the series is shaped dependent upon how many drivers turn up.

Our main concern, as always is to produce full grids that can be entertaining for as many drivers as possible.

If you have a 'fix' in mind please feel free to enunciate it.

[BadBlood]

...If people feel strongly that they want to race a mix of drivers...

That is so not the issue.

Noted your proposal Dean and I'll put it to Bill. I think that you misconstrued my point above - if all the lights want to drive against each other (which is what you signed for) it isn't possible on one grid.

[DLogan]

...if all the lights want to drive against each other (which is what you signed for) it isn't possible on one grid.

I only see 16 full time votes for Lights, and only 18 total Lights votes? Any latecomers can be signed up as reserves.

If you want to see more balanced grids (your stated justification for this whole exercise), re-assigning a couple is well within your rights as admin, obeys the rules as they were laid out, maintains the nature (and appeal) of this championship, and solves this whole thing now.

Any "But I don't wanna drive in Heavies..." can be "Talk to the hand"-ed. They agreed to that possibility when they voted/registered.

[maddog]

If you have a 'fix' in mind please feel free to enunciate it.

The fix would be to do what was expected, and what most drivers signed up for.  It has been enunciated hereabouts.  My concern beyond F2, is rules including points scoring, which are unclear to competitors before the off.  It currently sounds like they are also unclear to F2 staff!  This is not what we pay you for.  Flexible rules, according to conditions or whim, kill a competitive spirit.  Fix the F2 rules before race 1 please.

[BadBlood]

Exactly how much do you pay us? 

[maddog]

Not enough!  I'm sorry to get involved Paul, and make myself unpopular.  There is discontent at what some would call irregularities, in the way the racing is being presented.  Some will follow meekly - some will kick up a fuss.  It's a strange way of letting you know, Moderating matters, and your ideas and choices are important to us.

[BadBlood]

As it stands we are running two separate championships - this is Bill's show. If that proves unworkable we may have to re-adjust but that could not happen before race 2. Hence the reference to sorting things out later. Not ideal but nor is 27 drivers for a 20 driver grid.

As I said, let's see how many turn up tomorrow.

[Doni Yourth]

I like pie.

[Billy Nobrakes]

As a point of clarification - there are two separate grids. The scores are not being combined.

We can argue infinitum about different structures. There is no simple fix that will suit everyone.
I have allocated the grids according to what I believe is in the best interest of all the drivers that have registered.
If you do not want to compete on this basis then sorry - it is what it is.

[Turkey Machine]

As a point of clarification - there are two separate grids. The scores are not being combined.

We can argue infinitum about different structures. There is no simple fix that will suit everyone.
I have allocated the grids according to what I believe is in the best interest of all the drivers that have registered.
If you do not want to compete on this basis then sorry - it is what it is.

Just popping by to state my tuppence worth. I voted for the "Light" option because most consider me a fast driver (sometimes I am, granted! ). I've never driven these cars in anger, and look forward to it, but I don't mind which grid I'm on, as I know the driving standard is quick on both and that's the challenge I relish.

I hear no quarrel with running two 65s grids that are run as separate championships, nor with two grids for 67s races. If it so happens that the F2 races will be run in tandem, then so be it. As it stands, everybody will get to race, which is what UKGPL is about. Would you rather the grids were combined and you not be able to get onto one server? That'd be a bit embarrassing...

In my very honest opinion, the grids are evenly matched based on driver ability. So let's put up or shut up and prove it on the track. Last one to the line's a sissy!