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RACE SERIES KEY A19=Assetto Corsa, E10=Raceroom Experience, L23=UKGTL GT Legends, LN2=Legacy NoGrip GT Legends, LNE1=Legacy NoGrip GT Legends Endurance races
 
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  • P9KOSCC Imola: May 22, 2014
May 22, 2014, 08:49:09 PM +0100 - Imola (2007+) - UKPnG Season 9 Knock Out Sports Car Cup
Driver
 Team
Nat. Make Model Class Qualifying Race
Tyres Pos Time/Gap Pos Time/Gap Laps Stops Best Retirement
reason
Ballast
Geoffers
 Kerb Crawlers
Porsche 906/8 (#66224) P&G Group 6 O2L 1 2:03.877
88.851mph
1 45:03.859
85.485mph
21 2:05.083
87.994mph
Dunlop  
FullMetalGasket
 Black Night Racing
Porsche 906/8 (#66224) P&G Group 6 O2L 2 +0.024
88.834mph
2 +15.459
84.999mph
21 2:05.342
87.812mph
Dunlop  
frex
 Kerb Crawlers
Porsche 911 RSR 2.8 (#7311) P&G 70s Gr4 O2L 4 +1.364
87.883mph
3 +34.365
84.412mph
21 2:05.706
87.558mph
Dunlop  
Mogget
 WSL Racing Team
Shelby Daytona Coupe (#65009) P&G Group 3 O2L 5 +2.919
86.805mph
4 +1:26.389
82.838mph
21 2:07.247
86.498mph
Goodyear  
Jarda Zacek
 
DeTomaso Pantera (#72030) P&G 70s Gr4 O2L 7 +5.790
84.883mph
5 +1:51.022
82.113mph
21 2:09.780
84.809mph
Dunlop  
Clive Loynes
 Soggy Bottom Racers Club
Porsche 914/6 GT (#71019) P&G 70s Gr4 U2L 9 +6.280
84.564mph
6 +1:51.495
82.099mph
21 2:10.192
84.541mph
Firestone  
Mark J
 Legends Racing
Porsche 911 RSR 2.8 (#73059) P&G 70s Gr4 O2L 6 +3.535
86.386mph
7 +1:52.240
82.077mph
21 2:08.858
85.416mph
Goodyear  
Animal Ed
 Team Oldie Racing
Porsche 906/8 (#6605) P&G Group 6 O2L 3 +0.504
88.491mph
8 +2:01.769
81.801mph
21 2:04.744
88.233mph
Dunlop  
phspok
 Team Pseudo Racing
Ford GT40 Mk.1 (#66060) P&G Group 4 O2L 8 +5.812
84.869mph
9 +1L
81.134mph
20 2:08.566
85.610mph
Firestone  
Stefan aka Postal
 Legends Racing
Porsche 911 RSR 2.8 (#73063) P&G 70s Gr4 O2L 10 +6.480
84.434mph
10 +0.671
81.114mph
20 2:11.316
83.817mph
Goodyear  
Walter Conn
 WSL Racing Team
Porsche 914/6 GT (#71059) P&G 70s Gr4 U2L 12 +11.723
81.169mph
11 +40.605
79.938mph
20 2:13.178
82.646mph
Firestone  
Alex vV
 Gentlemen Drivers Club
Lotus Elan 26R (#64054) P&G Group 3 U2L 13 +15.826
78.786mph
12 +2L
76.494mph
19 2:19.725
78.773mph
Dunlop  
Legzy
 Team Oldie Racing
Porsche 914/6 GT (#71005) P&G 70s Gr4 U2L 11 +6.592
84.362mph
13 +16L 5 2:11.100
83.956mph
unknown
Dunlop  
SimRacing.org.uk Lap Records
GTR2
P&G Group 3 U2L
2:19.703
78.786mph
Alex vV
Qualifying
Lotus Elan 26RMay 22, 2014, 08:49:09 PM +0100
P9KOSCC
GTR2
P&G Group 3 U2L
2:19.725
78.773mph
Alex vV
Race
Lotus Elan 26RMay 22, 2014, 08:49:09 PM +0100
P9KOSCC
GTR2
P&G Group 3 O2L
2:06.796
86.805mph
Mogget
Qualifying
Shelby Daytona CoupeMay 22, 2014, 08:49:09 PM +0100
P9KOSCC
GTR2
P&G Group 3 O2L
2:07.247
86.498mph
Mogget
Race
Shelby Daytona CoupeMay 22, 2014, 08:49:09 PM +0100
P9KOSCC
GTR2
P&G Group 4 O2L
2:09.689
84.869mph
phspok
Qualifying
Ford GT40 Mk.1May 22, 2014, 08:49:09 PM +0100
P9KOSCC
GTR2
P&G Group 4 O2L
2:08.566
85.610mph
phspok
Race
Ford GT40 Mk.1May 22, 2014, 08:49:09 PM +0100
P9KOSCC
GTR2
P&G Group 6 O2L
2:03.877
88.851mph
Geoffers
Qualifying
Porsche 906/8May 22, 2014, 08:49:09 PM +0100
P9KOSCC
GTR2
P&G Group 6 O2L
2:04.744
88.233mph
Animal Ed
Race
Porsche 906/8May 22, 2014, 08:49:09 PM +0100
P9KOSCC
GTR2
P&G 70s Gr4 U2L
2:10.157
84.564mph
Clive Loynes
Qualifying
Porsche 914/6 GTMay 22, 2014, 08:49:09 PM +0100
P9KOSCC
GTR2
P&G 70s Gr4 U2L
2:10.192
84.541mph
Clive Loynes
Race
Porsche 914/6 GTMay 22, 2014, 08:49:09 PM +0100
P9KOSCC
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Author Topic: UKPnG Season 9 Knock Out Sports Car Cup - Imola - May 22  (Read 11195 times)
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Animal Ed
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« Reply #45 on: May 24, 2014, 07:12:11 PM +0100 »

...
I think the reason Clive was a bit more successful at staying on the track was

a) he was in a car which was a bit easier to drive, &
b) he is a better driver than the rest of us.

c) he was in much slower car so he had all the time in the world to target the line, check is it targeted correctly, recheck previous step ...

Sorry Clive, just couldn`t resist.  Grin
I`m still puzzled about your car choice ...  only car that you can keep on track?? Huh
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phspok
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« Reply #46 on: May 24, 2014, 07:32:45 PM +0100 »

Anyway, it was a grand race  thumbup1
Next week is something quite different.
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Geoffers
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« Reply #47 on: May 24, 2014, 07:38:45 PM +0100 »

For the record, I don't think that anyone was deliberately trying to cut corners.

I just don't think that they were deliberately trying to stay on the track either!  And that's the difference.

I think people are trying to stay on track, just that sometimes the car decides otherwise.

None of us are professionals & at times we are quite inept, & I'm sure if we were let loose in a real car on a real track & drove like we do online, most of us would end up in the kitty litter pretty quick.

I'm sure IRL Matt would wipe the floor with all of us.
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Animal Ed
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« Reply #48 on: May 24, 2014, 08:17:51 PM +0100 »

Still don`t know is it something on my adress about cutting, anyway, I will explain my behavior.
I was attacking kerbs not to make turn flatter. Only to help car rotation so it was not in my interest to go over the kerb with all four wheels.
Most of the time I did it correctly but, as I said earlier - I was notty in few occasions and key word is "few" - not all the time.

@ Geoffers

Would Matt be willing to show some respect for senior residents allowing us to wipe the floor by ourselves and miss few spots?
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Clive Loynes
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« Reply #49 on: May 24, 2014, 08:38:38 PM +0100 »

...
I think the reason Clive was a bit more successful at staying on the track was

a) he was in a car which was a bit easier to drive, &
b) he is a better driver than the rest of us.

c) he was in much slower car so he had all the time in the world to target the line, check is it targeted correctly, recheck previous step ...

Sorry Clive, just couldn`t resist.  Grin
I`m still puzzled about your car choice ...  only car that you can keep on track?? Huh

LOL

Apparently my definition of keeping on the track is different to everyone else's.
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Animal Ed
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« Reply #50 on: May 24, 2014, 09:42:38 PM +0100 »

From the bright side, now you have all ours excuses available for next races ...

  nono  "Keep the car on the road!"

  angel  "I`m trying, I`m trying really hard! I was just avoiding some pedestrians in the middle of the road!"


Joke aside, I am also upset when I see someone moving boundaries to fit his agenda but I don`t think that it was the case here, in this race.
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Clive Loynes
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« Reply #51 on: May 25, 2014, 08:05:04 AM +0100 »

I suppose nothing will be done until I get nasty and start putting in incident reports!

Please consider my original request to scrub the race.

I have looked at the server replay and started to catalogue the off track excursions.  Starting with Geoffers.  Sorry Geoffers but you were at the front of the grid.

I have numbered the corners for my own reference and where possible added the corner names where they exist.

Geoffers
Lap 1
T3 Tamburello Off track on at apex.
T11 Acque Minerali Off track at apex.
T18 Rivazza 2 Off track on exit.
Lap 2
T6 Vill' Chicane Off track at apex.
T11 Acque Minerali Off track at apex.
T14 Variante Alta Off track at apex.
T17  Rivazza 1  Off track at exit.
T20 Final Chicane Off track at apex.

etc. etc. etc.

Do I really have to plod through everyone's opening laps?  It was not a great race, it was a farce, and should be scrubbed.

If a car is difficult to keep on the track, that does not make it "legal" to leave the track whenever keeping to it looks like it will slow you down.

We had the same issue with Hungaroring but after I kicked up a fuss the subsequent races have been much better behaved affairs.

Guess I have to do the same again but I would prefer that Geoffers isn't singled out this time.

Just scrub the race.   Grin

Let me know if I need to start posting incident reports please Matt.
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« Reply #52 on: May 25, 2014, 05:16:55 PM +0100 »

I don't think that we need to scrub the race, Clive. I have checked Geoffers' race line over the first two or three laps, and it was hardly what you could call "blatant cutting". On the other hand, the number of times that my Daytona was completely off the tarmac at Acque Minerale is less forgivable. I have raced at this track many times in the past, and most people have used the kerbs and chicanes to maximum advantage, but I was forgetting that you guys have a more strict rule with respect to keeping two wheels on the tarmac (not the kerbs or runoff areas) at all times. That is why I think that there is a case to penalise me, but I am not so sure that Geoffers can be criticised for his racing line. He was never consistently cutting at the same location time after time, which suggests to me that he simply misjudged the turn in for a particular corner now and again.

To be honest, this is not a good track to use for this league (and I am aware that Matt intended to use the 1994 version, although I don't know how different the kerbs and cut track warnings are on that one). For the record, I suggest steering clear of Zolder 2005 and Magny Cours aswell!
« Last Edit: May 25, 2014, 05:20:14 PM +0100 by Mogget » Logged
phspok
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« Reply #53 on: May 27, 2014, 10:16:03 AM +0100 »

Flippin 'eck Clive, "Dog with Bone" springs to mind. You are the only person, just you and only you
no one else,  who thinks there is a problem here.
Mogget is uncomfortable with his cutting, I have watched most of the replay and he drove fairly in my opinion.
No one else agrees with you including me. Though there were some liberties taken with kerbs at times
I don't believe there is even the slightest, tiniest, miniscule, reason to scrub the race, and I think you are out of order
for suggesting it.
There is nothing in our rules that support your argument at all. The SROUK rules talk about "may" not "will"

    Under normal circumstances the simulation's internal cut detection will be relied upon to police the cutting of chicanes and other corners.
    Drivers are strongly discouraged from the deliberate placing of one or more wheels on areas of grass, gravel and sand.
    Clear and deliberate cutting which evades detection by the simulation may still result in a penalty.
    A "1x Off Track" message in iRacing is a clear indication that you have deviated from the racing surface. A driver showing an abnormally high number of such incidents may attract a penalty for persistent deviation from the racing surface.
    A driver who gains an advantage through a cut must yield the advantage back to any affected car(s).
    An advantage may include taking a place directly, setting up a pass, or avoiding losing a place.
    Persistent or deliberate 'railriding' is strictly forbidden.
    These rules apply in all sessions, including qualifying, even when not on a flying lap.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

After a flood of posts about clarification I posted some pictures and words to make it known what I, as the series director...
consider to be a decent compromise between racing for fun and fairness for all. This is not Formula One, we are not
talking millions of pounds to run teams, we are here to have fun, if people blatantly, deliberately, and repeatadly gain advantage
by putting 4 wheels off the race track, then that's why we have incident reports.

My request or guidelines ask that people keep two wheels on the track in corners most of the time in a race, if anyone feels that
the guy in front gained places by severely cutting corners then put in an incident report.

If you put in incident reports for the people who finished in front of you on this occasion Clive, then I will see it
as an attempt to gain places by use of the rule book. The people in front were probably in faster cars however perfectly
they drove, it is extremely unlikely that the finishing order would have been any different.

Sorry for voicing my opinions so strongly, but I am thoroughly fed up with the negative impact of all these IMHO unneccesary posts
about who went off the track more than others or didn't, in a race that was great fun for most people.

If you want to make up the rules as you see fit then you can have my job with pleasure.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2014, 11:46:56 AM +0100 by phspok » Logged

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Clive Loynes
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« Reply #54 on: May 27, 2014, 01:41:45 PM +0100 »

LOL

I think that if we have a rule, oops sorry guideline, that is so detrimental to people "having fun" to such an extent that the race director himself refuses to see it enforced then perhaps it is the "guideline" that needs scrapping rather than the race?

I'm not making up rules, just trying to abide by them.   Roll Eyes


I shall ignore your guideline in future, just like everyone else, if that keeps you happy.


If the corner cutting and "easing" of the track boundaries as witnessed at Imola are anything to go by then I shouldn't think that anyone is ever likely to receive a penalty for such an offence from here on.  If you don't care if people use the curbs then why put the guideline in there in the first place?

I like things in black and white.  I suppose that these shades of grey are ok if you are only "having fun".



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Hotkeys
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« Reply #55 on: May 27, 2014, 02:16:28 PM +0100 »

This is not Formula One, we are not talking millions of pounds to run teams, we are here to have fun

 thumbup2

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Stig Ravnbøl / Alias Hotkeys
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« Reply #56 on: May 27, 2014, 04:00:41 PM +0100 »

Come on, Clive. Give it a rest. Organising leagues (particularly multiple ones with different parameters) is not an easy task. Having done all of the hard work to set everything up, the last thing that a race organiser wants to have to do is check out hours of race footage, and then decide if penalties need to be dished out. That takes it from "hard work" to "suicide watch" very quickly, and is no fun for anyone. I don't recall you being this fussy when you used to race in the WSL??
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phspok
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« Reply #57 on: May 27, 2014, 04:28:26 PM +0100 »

OK, My last word.

In a perfect world we could as the SROUK guidelines say, depend on the game's cut detection
but we can't. Some of the SROUK versions of tracks seem to have some cut detection mods
some are crazy and penalise for going near a corner post.  There is no black and white here
however desirable that may be. We depend to some extent on drivers driving fairly, and
I believe that all our current drivers do that. If you ignore my guidlelines you will likely
get some incident reports just like anyone would. Again I state that my request is that people
keep two wheels on the track surface most of the time, so, define "most of the time"
I would say "more than 50%" but I have neither the time nor the interest to count how many
times each and every driver went wide. We have had some obvious blatant disregard for
our way of doing things in the past, sometimes because the visiting drivers have a different set of rules
sometime on rare occasions because the driver just didn't give a carp, and reports have quite rightly
gone in on those occasions. The onyl way we could be black and white is to say something like
"Anyone who puts 4 wheels off the track more than twice on any lap is excluded from the points"
But I think that is too draconian, and as Mogget says, is way more of a headache to police
than I could, or would want to do.

I watched the 1st 3 places second half of the race, and they were all keeping two wheels
on the track more than they weren't, so I see no problem.

Now I would really like to move on, before we hack off any more people.
 surrender

p.s I am not entirely joking about taking over the Directorship, you would be very good at it
and after 3 years of it I could do with a break.
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Clive Loynes
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« Reply #58 on: May 28, 2014, 09:31:49 AM +0100 »



p.s I am not entirely joking about taking over the Directorship, you would be very good at it
and after 3 years of it I could do with a break.

LOL

Sorry Matt, I'm more likely to jack it all in.  I get my racing "fix" with the rc cars these days.

Besides, I would frighten away the few remaining drivers that we have.

I did my stint running the B.R.E.A.S.T.S. League for a few years and also moderating at UKGPL.   Never again!
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Legzy
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« Reply #59 on: May 28, 2014, 08:12:11 PM +0100 »

Quote
Never again!

That must be why you go so easy on Matt
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