UKGPL Season 27 (2014) Amateurs Trophy (65) - Adelaide - Aug 5

[Rainier]

Time penalty is fair - but should both Dave C & I get penalty points for an incorrect Stop & Go?
We're getting the team a bad name!

Eh? 2x penalty points for that?!   I thought this was acceptable behaviour seeing as it was the last lap?
I even submitted a report for that myself;  maybe I should have remained a bit quieter...

Cheers anyway,  good job.

Cheers,
Dave.

I made a mistake about penalties, I have corrected it.

[maddog]

Last Season simply by chance, I came across a Moderator, who was using a reset mid-lap during practice.  This Season at least 2 Moderators have been caught using their stop & go to reset/refuel.  It may be time for the staff here to go study the rulebook more carefully,

[dave curtis]

Ok, thanks!

Maybe I can sleep at night now, without the additional worrying...

Cheers,
Dave.

[Robert Fleurke]

Last Season simply by chance, I came across a Moderator, who was using a reset mid-lap during practice.  This Season at least 2 Moderators have been caught using their stop & go to reset/refuel.  It may be time for the staff here to go study the rulebook more carefully,

If you make such statements, you'd better come up with some evidence to back it up. You could have reported it as well. No need to play the agitator.

[Ronniepeterson]

Last Season simply by chance, I came across a Moderator, who was using a reset mid-lap during practice.  This Season at least 2 Moderators have been caught using their stop & go to reset/refuel.  It may be time for the staff here to go study the rulebook more carefully,

Nice to know someone else tries to follow the rules Martin

On a related topic, I asked what I thought was a simple question after the F2 race at Jarama

"from the comments above, some had fuel issues. Can someone clarify the rule on using a shift-r to refuel. I have always been under the impression that where a single shift-r is permissible it was not to be used for this purpose. If this is not the case, then when and where can fuel stops be made? I routinely overfill to avoid this but on occasion would welcome the opportunity to use a lighter car in two stints if this is available?"

and was met with a stony silence from the moderation team. But it would be nice to have an answer 

[maddog]

If you make such statements, you'd better come up with some evidence to back it up. You could have reported it as well. No need to play the agitator. 

It's important for those making the rules, to understand and abide by the rules.  Rules can then be explained when requested.  I made no suggestion of dishonesty, Robert.

[Robert Fleurke]

Martin, Ray,

my own opinion is that we need to read between the lines and make a distinction between intentional refueling (like halfway) and accidently having not enough fuel onboard, and using a reset late race for this.

It might have been lost in translation, thought you meant intentional refueling Martin.

However will discuss this on the mod forum to have a final consensus and wil try to clear this up.

Stay tuned.

[maddog]

Thanks RF - the possibility of incorrect resets being used to refuel, is cne for Moderators to consider.  I am only a casual observer.  What other stuff has been going on, and not noticed?

Has the matter of practice resets been discussed for Nurburgring?  Will this helpful information be made available before the race?  

[Ronniepeterson]

Thanks for the feedback Robert.

In all my years here it has certainly been my understanding that if you run out of fuel whether at halfway or with 1 lap to go then your race is over and you should be honest enough not to use a reset, if available, to refuel. Tough if not impossible to police but we all just have to trust each other to play fair. I'm certainly not accusing anyone of anything other than me not knowing that the rules might have changed. I hasten to add I am not proposing any rule change myself.

[Robert Fleurke]

Martin, Ray, and all for that matter,

UKGPL has never tried to police fuel stops because there isn't any evidence drivers are using them to gain an advantage.

So when you run out of fuel having miscalculated the amount, and you still have a Shift-r left in races that don't run under Pro damage, you can do that. But you have to reset out on the track and still do a S&G (or 30s penalty when in last lap or no S&G performed).

Intentional refuelling halfway would cost you time also overall, you have to reset out on the track and do a S&G. You simply lose too much time to make it work overall. Only in very long races (like 100%) it might be profitable. There is no evidence ppl attempt to do this; and it would be hard to detect.

As far as practise resets at Nurburgring the rules state:

For divisions that don't run under PRO rules (where Shift-Rs are not possible), a Shift-R is allowed only in a race, not in practice.

This rule may be relaxed at certain tracks by the moderator (usually only the Nurburgring).

I hope this will answer all your questions and things are cleared up.

[maddog]

Hooray, some helpful and sensible thinking.  Rules with added if's, and's or but's, do not simplify things for the Enforcers.  The more complex the rulebook gets, the more Moderators have to learn, to avoid embarrassment out on the track!

Midlap Nurby resets show kindness to Novices, IF we have any?  Not many beginners showing up these days?  Announcement please to confirm, as the rulebook suggests, or it would seem unfair to those less learned, than like what some is.

[Ronniepeterson]

UKGPL has never tried to police fuel stops because there isn't any evidence drivers are using them to gain an advantage.

So when you run out of fuel having miscalculated the amount, and you still have a Shift-r left in races that don't run under Pro damage, you can do that. But you have to reset out on the track and still do a S&G (or 30s penalty when in last lap or no S&G performed).

Intentional refuelling halfway would cost you time also overall, you have to reset out on the track and do a S&G. You simply lose too much time to make it work overall. Only in very long races (like 100%) it might be profitable. There is no evidence ppl attempt to do this; and it would be hard to detect.

I hope this will answer all your questions and things are cleared up.

Like I said, I never knew resets, where allowed, could be used to refuel at anytime during a race. Now I do and can consider this tactic if I feel it offers me an advantage. Unlikely I agree but at least I know its allowed. Thanks for the answer, appreciated.

[dave curtis]

Regardless as to whether a 'refuel reset' is technically permitted/possible or not,  to turn up at the start grid with (say) 60% fuel you really need to be quite sure that there will be no incidents very early on,  or indeeed - not so early on either!

And as resets are (typically) where the 'not professional' types are,  anything could happen...!

I usually overfill to try to avoid *that* embarrassment at least (although gpl did lie in the 2nd round on Friday & I ran dry 2laps from the end...)