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  • S2869X Montjuich Park: April 19, 2015
April 19, 2015, 10:36:22 PM +0100 - Montjuïc Park - UKGPL Season 28 (2015) 69 Extra Trophy
Driver
 Team
Nat. Make Model Class Qualifying Race
Tyres Pos Time/Gap Pos Time/Gap Laps Stops Best Retirement
reason
Ballast
Baab
 Team Baarf
Brabham BT26a (DFV) F1 1969 1 1:25.624
103.727mph
1 45:41.865
100.416mph
31 1:25.604
103.751mph
Dunlop  
maddog
 Antipasti Racing
Lotus 49b (DFV) F1 1969 11 +3.357
99.814mph
2 +1:12.047
97.845mph
31 1:28.694
100.137mph
Firestone  
FullMetalGasket
 Black Night Racing
McLaren M7 (DFV) F1 1969 4 +0.928
102.615mph
3 +1L
99.781mph
30 1:26.543
102.626mph
Goodyear  
Ronniepeterson
 
Brabham BT26a (DFV) F1 1969 2 +0.668
102.924mph
4 +12.245
99.326mph
30 1:26.665
102.481mph
Dunlop  
Piero Mercaldo
 Squadra Padova Corse
Lotus 49b (DFV) F1 1969 3 +0.787
102.782mph
5 (+2) +33.154
98.558mph
30 1:27.586
101.404mph
Firestone  
Cookie
 Antipasti Racing
Matra MS80 (DFV) F1 1969 10 +3.271
99.910mph
6 +1:16.138
97.015mph
30 1:28.034
100.888mph
Dunlop  
AnGex
 Black Night Racing
BRM P126/139 F1 1969 12 +4.197
98.880mph
7 +1:55.943
95.629mph
30 1:30.035
98.645mph
Dunlop  
Rainier
 Black Night Racing
Brabham BT26a (DFV) F1 1969 14 +5.798
97.149mph
8 +2:12.230
95.074mph
30 1:29.769
98.938mph
Dunlop  
Marco Mercaldo
 Squadra Padova Corse
Brabham BT26a (DFV) F1 1969 8 +2.623
100.644mph
9 +2L
93.358mph
29 1:29.917
98.775mph
Dunlop  
dave curtis
 Black Night Racing
Matra MS80 (DFV) F1 1969 16 +9.473
93.394mph
10 +3L
93.237mph
28 1:31.251
97.331mph
Dunlop  
Arf Arf Arf
 Team Baarf
Brabham BT26a (DFV) F1 1969 6 +2.377
100.925mph
11 +9L
98.850mph
22 1:27.814
101.140mph
Disco
Dunlop  
DLogan
 
Matra MS84 F1 1969 13 +4.354
98.708mph
12 +14L
94.060mph
17 1:29.821
98.880mph
Disco
Dunlop  
JonnyO
 Team Coyote
Ferrari 312 (1969) F1 1969 7 +2.541
100.738mph
13 +21L
97.752mph
10 1:28.263
100.626mph
Disco
Dunlop  
Doni Yourth
 Blue Moose Racing
Lotus 49b (DFV) F1 1969 9 +3.047
100.163mph
14 +48.030
92.844mph
10 1:27.720
101.249mph
Disco
Firestone  
Phil Thornton
 Antipasti Racing
McLaren M7 (DFV) F1 1969 15 +6.531
96.376mph
15 +30L
67.778mph
1 2:05.215
70.930mph
Disco
Goodyear  
bernie
 Soggy Bottom Racers Club
McLaren M7 (DFV) F1 1969 18 16 +18.927
59.224mph
1 2:20.692
63.127mph
Disco
Goodyear  
EvilClive
 Blue Moose Racing
McLaren M7 (DFV) F1 1969 5 +0.940
102.601mph
17 +31L
---
0 ---
---
Disco
Goodyear  
EvilClive
 Blue Moose Racing
McLaren M7 (DFV) F1 1969 18 DNS ---
---
Dunlop  
Baab
 Team Baarf
Brabham BT26a (DFV) F1 1969 19 ---
---
Dunlop  
60fps UKGPL 8
 
BRM P126/139 F1 1969 17 20 ---
---
Dunlop  

Moderator's Report

Summary

Bob starts from the pole and takes an early lead. Ronnie’s car slots in behind him, and Piero is third. The first two corners are very hazardous. Nine drivers do a Shift-R and one driver retires. Only Bob, Ronnie, Arf and JonnyO are able to make it through without losing time. Bob leads the first three laps, but then flips the car after having a misunderstanding with a lapped car. Bob’s quick shift-R and S/G puts him back to 4th place. Ronnie takes the lead, and leads the most laps. Then with ten to go, Bob finally has caught back up to Ronnie. Bob hounds Ronnie for five laps until Ronnie misses the apex of turn 1 on lap 26. Bob does not need an engraved invitation. He dives to the inside of Ronnie. The gap closes at the exit of the corner resulting in contact between Bob and Ronnie. Ronnie has a half spin, but is able to recover rather quickly. Bob is a little further back after the contact, but he closes the gap over the next few laps. Then with 2 laps left to go, while leading the race, Ronnie’s engine blows up! Bob takes the lead. Tim moves up to 2nd place, and Ronnie falls back to third. Then tragically, bad luck strikes again. Tim, Ronnie and Piero are disconnected from the server on the last lap, on the home stretch just before taking the checkered flag. Bob is the winner of the race, and he has the fastest lap honors. Martin was the last car on the lead lap, and thus, he moves up to 2nd position. Tim only loses one position, and finishes third.


Server replay time: 0h00m57s

Lap 1 – Rasente – Martin has side by side contact with Marco. Martin is going much quicker than Marco as they go over the jump on the curve named Rasente. Marco stays to the outside lane which probably compromised his speed. Martin is not able to stay to the inside lane. Martin's four wheels leave the ground as he goes over the bump. He brakes, but his right rear makes contact with Marco's car. The contact was caused from their collision boxes plus some lag, but it is enough to send Marco into guard rail. Marco is able to recover quickly. Martin is able to regain control as if nothing had happened.

It is not possible to race as close as in real life. We all have to take into account collision boxes and some lag.


Server replay time: 0h00m58s

Lap 1 – Turn 1 - Piero Mercaldo’s car slides under braking into Ronnie Peterson. It is a tough first corner that can catch the best out. Ronnie enters the braking zone for turn 1 in the middle of the track. Ronnie moves to inside line (normal line) behind Bob while in the braking zone. Piero keeps to the inside line. Piero's car dances left and then right under braking. Piero is close enough that his collision box bumps Ronnie into a half spin. Luckily for Ronnie, Piero’s car bumps him a second time, and the contact straightens him back in correct direction.


Server replay time: 0h01m06s

Lap 1 – Straight between turn 1 & 2 - Piero Mercaldo has side by side contact with Arf after they exit turn one. Arf was on the right hand side of the track, and is glued to the armco. Piero keeps a tight line exiting turn one, which is sensible, but then gives it too much gas and has a wobble. Arf was almost past Piero when the contact was made, and he reported that he did not even know that he was part of the incident until he watched the replay.


Server replay time: 0h01m09s

Lap 1 – Turn 2 – Piero Mercaldo has side by side contact with EvilClive. Clive keeps to the right hand side of the track. Piero turns into the apex not knowing that Clive is there. The two cars become tangled resulting in a blocked racetrack.

This incident can serve as a reminder to everyone that you should stick to your side of the track unless you are sure that you are clear for a lane change.

  • Piero Mercaldopenalty — Simple Side by Side Contact (extra place for a red zone incident) — 2 places lost


Server replay time: 0h01m39s

Lap 1 – turn 2 – Marco Mercaldo performs shift-R and spawns on top of Bernie. Bernie had not been involved in the crash until that moment. In theory GPL would normally not have allowed Marco to re set with cars following. However, in this scenario, a lot of cars respawned at the same time, and the likelihood for this to happen is very high. Unfortunate Bad Shift R

  • Racing incident


Server replay time: 0h05m08s

Lap 3 – Start/Finish stretch – Bernie was being lapped by Bob on the front stretch, and they had side by side contact. The track bends to the left and then to the right. Bernie sees Bob in his LH mirror as they are going through a left hand curve. The limited visibility in GPL makes it difficult for Bernie to know which side of the track to move towards to facilitate being lapped. Bernie moves to the right, which is also the racing line. Bob had also moved to the right. Bernie's right rear tire makes contact with Bob's left front tire. Bob was going about 30-40kmh faster at that point. Bob tried to lift, but he could not avoid. Bernie retires because he has already used his shift-r on the first lap. Bob is able to perform a shift-r + S/G so that he can continue in the race.

Advice: It is preferable for the lapped driver to make a positive effort to get out of the way. However it is not against the rules for Bernie to stay on the racing line while being lapped. In fact, the etiquette page actually says for Bernie to hold his line to prevent any confusion if he can't make an unambiguous move off the racing line. Whether Bernie had the time to move aside is debatable. The advice for the lapping driver on the etiquette page says, if you cannot see any guaranteed clean route to pass the driver then be patient and follow them. Do not make a risky move even if it means following them for a long period. In this scenario, Bernie is a little off pace at the moment, and he would like to let Bob past as quick and easy as possible. However, this section of track is a higher risk place to make an overtake. The racing line moves from the left side of the track to the right side. The result is that Bob does not achieve much overlap before the turn in point for the corner. Having said all of that, I think that most people watching this race would have sympathy for Bob. Both drivers should read the section on lapping on the [url=https://www.ukgpl.com/index.php/rules/etiquette]etiquette page[/url].

  • Racing incident

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Author Topic: UKGPL Season 28 (2015) 69 Extra Trophy - Montjuich Park - Apr 19  (Read 9732 times)
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DLogan
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« Reply #45 on: April 26, 2015, 06:54:58 PM +0100 »

...I'm still not sure what is expected of a driver and everyone else on his side of the grid when the car directly ahead moves away far too slowly or worse still is stationary...

You had to bring up Silverstone?  Cheesy

Could be used to bolster my argument against pro mode, as many drivers would have been done even before the start line, in a situation where no one did anything really wrong...

But one thing Martin said in this thread has me curious. He mentioned that he was not able to see the start flag at Montjuich, where I (2 places behind him) could see it, got a much better start, and had to check up large to avoid punting him. Riding onboard his car for the replay, I could see the flag drop. Is it a resolution thing (1920x1080 here)?
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Ronniepeterson
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« Reply #46 on: April 26, 2015, 07:05:30 PM +0100 »

...I'm still not sure what is expected of a driver and everyone else on his side of the grid when the car directly ahead moves away far too slowly or worse still is stationary...

You had to bring up Silverstone?  Cheesy


 laugh Yeah I know, sorry everyone  laugh But does anyone know what the etiquette is for the side of the grid left behind a stricken car, just in case it happens again  laugh
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maddog
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« Reply #47 on: April 26, 2015, 09:38:52 PM +0100 »

But one thing Martin said in this thread has me curious. He mentioned that he was not able to see the start flag at Montjuich, where I (2 places behind him) could see it . . . .  

Screen resolution made it harder to see the flag.  I was also further back than hoped, when practice races had been fine.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2015, 12:52:00 AM +0100 by maddog » Logged
bernie
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« Reply #48 on: April 26, 2015, 10:39:15 PM +0100 »

But one thing Martin said in this thread has me curious. He mentioned that he was not able to see the start flag at Montjuich, where I (2 places behind him) could see it . . . . 

Screen resolution made it harder to see the flag.  I was also further back than hoped, wen practice races were fine.

should have gone to specsavers  Roll Eyes
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EvilClive
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« Reply #49 on: April 26, 2015, 11:00:19 PM +0100 »

...I'm still not sure what is expected of a driver and everyone else on his side of the grid when the car directly ahead moves away far too slowly or worse still is stationary...

You had to bring up Silverstone?  Cheesy


 laugh Yeah I know, sorry everyone  laugh But does anyone know what the etiquette is for the side of the grid left behind a stricken car, just in case it happens again  laugh

D'you know what Ronnie, I do not think anyone has ever asked that question before. Phil might remember something, but I cannot.  

The nearest thing in the guidelines/penalties would come under the bits about overtaking and weaving, but that hardly seems to be applicable here. In fact it could be argued that, as it is the obligation of the OVERTAKING car to avoid any contact, those in the clear lane off the grid should give way to those cars in front of them who wish to move out and around the stricken car because technically they are attempting to make a pass. Conversely the cars in front could be accused of weaving and blocking if they swing out in front of those cars that are about to pass. None of this seems quite right or fair , and applying these rules will cause more grief than it will solve I think.

Like 90% of all lap1/T1/startline incidents it comes down to a combination of driver awareness and the limited views afforded by GPL.

a) The driver behind the stricken car has only a fraction of a second to realise that it is not moving and having dropped the clutch and floored the gas when the flag drops, probably is destined to lunch on gearbox components.

b) cars further back, but in the same file, will all pick up speed and arrive at the scene of the carnage with maximum effect. ( I think Eistein predicted this in his Special Theory of Relativity about bodies in motion!)

c) cars in the same file that have time to realise what is happening and try to take avoiding action, by moving across into the other line of cars leaving the grid, risk starting a whole new accident blackspot.

d) Any car foolish enough to leave the file of cars on the clear side in an attempt to gain places ( on every grid there is one  Roll Eyes ) is likely to multiply the problem by 200%!

If members think that there is a need for guidelines/rules/penalties to cover such incidents, I guess we will have to think something up and put it before you. If anyone has thought of a fair and unambiguous etiquette to cover stalled cars on the grid, please post and we can all share Wink

For my part I think that frustrating though it is.. All drivers are responsible for not running into the car in front, so taken as it stands that includes the grid. and the moves necessary to get out and around a stricken car. In an ideal sim world ( and in Real Life motor racing ) unless you are on the front row, you do not start to move when the flag drops. You start to move only when the car in front starts to move!!

My gut feeling for this is that it comes under the same rule as "rear ending" another car.  If you run into the back of a car on the run down to T1, then YOU are responsible. If we introduce a separate rule for "the grid and the start" where does one rule stop and the other begin?? 5 mtrs over the start line? 20 mtrs after the start line??  Whatever rule we use must surely be consistent throughout the race?

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bernie
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« Reply #50 on: April 27, 2015, 10:36:51 AM +0100 »

Always expect the unexpected !  Shocked Shocked Shocked
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Walter Conn
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« Reply #51 on: May 13, 2015, 10:36:38 PM +0100 »

Moderation Published.

I owe many thanks to the eleven drivers that gave me their insight into the incidents. Four of whom took the time to reply to more than one incident report. It really does help me to see things from a different perspective.

Also, Thank you to the four moderators that gave me feedback for this round. Special thanks to Phil and Robert for taking the time to reply each time that I revised the report. This report was far better because of their input. Smiley  
« Last Edit: May 13, 2015, 10:46:53 PM +0100 by Walter Conn » Logged

Sunday Driver
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« Reply #52 on: May 14, 2015, 03:07:46 PM +0100 »

What a gigantic job, well done!!!

Maybe I should make the red zone way shorter for the next races Roll Eyes
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bernie
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« Reply #53 on: May 14, 2015, 05:30:06 PM +0100 »

Gracias  Walter & the Mods team for this very comprehensive and fair report   Smiley
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Walter Conn
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« Reply #54 on: May 14, 2015, 06:11:45 PM +0100 »

What a gigantic job, well done!!!

Maybe I should make the red zone way shorter for the next races Roll Eyes

 laugh Thank you Axel, I suppose that a shorter red zone would give me more time to spend with the family.  Smiley

And lest we not forget, thank you Axel for organizing and hosting races!!!  No small feat...    

(I read somewhere that "lest we forget" means for fear that we might forget)

 
« Last Edit: May 15, 2015, 01:41:19 PM +0100 by Walter Conn » Logged

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