UKGPL Season 29 (2015-16) Works Trophy (67) - Watkins Glen - Oct 4

[Cookie]

Bob I confirm, it were the crashboxes that collided, np,
but it was also my upshift into 4th gear at that point that let me loose some momentum.
The report speaks of minor problems but Ferrari was still good driveable.

So I cruised home for the next 44,8 laps without any fight exept with my concentration
Mission accomplished, first finish in works  

[Pelle_B]

Big Grats RF & PA  ...& A great start to the season 29, TEAM-GTLDK 2-3 

Unfortunately, not a good start for more (T1 & S), especially Istyn had ISP problems 

Practice/Qual:
Thanks to Cookie for a little practice (think we were alone on the server) & I could feel the changes in the setup began to have an effect (WG, the track where I have always had problems with high temp of the left wheel).
In the qual I continued with setup & drove almost the entire qual with race setup...at the last second before the race, the setup was perfect & Confidence on the start line was 100%, regardless of cold tires 

Race:
My McHonda was full of gunpowder (switched from V-Power) & a slightly 'naughty' start...I was just behind PA. Unfortunately I had no chance (I tried) but to follow Peter in Eagle with my McHonda...impossible. RF & PA disappeared & ran their own race. Of course I am happy to get on the podium in this car.

Too bad with the big accident in T1 ...but I must admit, I laughed a little when I saw the replay...ID comes in his heavy BRM (my felling) ID sees nothing & kill the last surviving Down.

Also good job Pelle in the black Honda

Maybe someone wondering...why black Honda & McHonda ?...here is the answer   

[Gismo]

Grats to Robert with a very quick and consistent performance for the win, I had a near perfect run within my ability to 2nd place, these kind of races just remind me what great fun GPL is even when you're only racing on laptimes, no other racing game really does that for me :-) Actually not that often I get to lap people, but traffic was very good, very predictable, so thx to you guys for that!

A well done to my teammate Pelle also for a great 3rd finish in his Honda! though nice looking you would think that paintjob would make it even slower and more unreliable :-P

After watching the replay I just can't help making a comment..
I generally think we should try to accept the gridpositions we have and not try to make up positions at the start, this is for fun and everybody here wants to have a full race, so let the field get off and into a rythm at least through the first couple of corners before trying a pass.. In my experience it very often ends up bad if I try to overtake in T-early of L1 in general.. It's seemingly a combination of things going wrong here, but Pelle in my view you're too aggressive, though it was a really good start!, which seem to scare cookie to correct his line, loosing speed, causing Bob, who also seems a bit aggressive coming into the esses, to collide with cookie which is the catalyst for the entire thing.. Iestyn, well, that just looked hilarous if I'm honest :-D I am quite sure that it was pure lag/internet as his car doesn't seem to take any hits at all (from his pov)

One final rant, Ronnie P. ! Your engine died on the back straight and yet you rolled all the way to a stop - on the racing line! - in the esses !?! - nothing happened but having to correct the line in the esses is not pleasant and costs all the way to the loop.. When your engine dies, your race dies, get off the track...!

Sorry 'bout this negativity, but if at any time I do something you don't approve of, I expect you to tell me and I'll be the first to apologize.. I think we need to adress these things and learn from them..

Looking forward to the next race, all the best guys!

[Ronniepeterson]

One final rant, Ronnie P. ! Your engine died on the back straight and yet you rolled all the way to a stop - on the racing line! - in the esses !?! - nothing happened but having to correct the line in the esses is not pleasant and costs all the way to the loop.. When your engine dies, your race dies, get off the track...!

I understand your point of view but I disagree totally. Completing that lap could have been vital for me (both position and the UKGPL 50% race completion rule). Once the lap was completed I ended my race.

I stuck to a line and did not make it difficult for anyone to pass me. It is the responsibility of the driver passing to take as much care so slowing down when you see someone in trouble ahead should not present a problem to anyone.

For the record I had engine problems from about lap 5 onwards but had no intention of ending my race any sooner than necessary. But I do apologise if this caused you a problem.

[Robert Fleurke]

I had decided to run the BRM this season, simply because I have never really tamed that beast in all my years racing GPL.

I have learned that the BRM is not immune to crashfests, but I know nothing about how to make it go faster!!  

I hate the bourne beast , its biggest fault for me is low end torque , a pig to get off the line and by the time you get up to speed the rest of the field are off into the distance , love to know how to get it going well . Think you are a very brave man,  good luck , hope you get the L plates off sooner than later .

Good luck to you Clive. Bernie is right.

For me there is no real trick for the BRM. Because it's heavy it you will suffer earlier from hot tires, since the loads are higher. Also you need to keep it in the right revs, setting up the gearings right is key. You can run it rather hot, I try to keep it below 110C/230F, but have been getting away with even higher temps (at Pro).

Since the powerband is rather small, it's mostly effective in the lower gears at 8,000/9,000-11,000rpm and in the taller gears about 10,000-11,000rpm...judging from my best BRM lap at Spa67...

If the track allows for it, and most do, setup the 1st gear for the start, and 2nd for the slow turns. Also being smooth with the BRM helps, again it's easy to overheat the tires. Suspension wise I have to run slightly stiffer than most cars, mostly due to the weight.

Despite my GPLRank it seems one of my better chassis' relatively, mostly judging on add-on tracks. It's real fun doing well in the Beast of Bourne, and for me it's very reliable, strong suspension, and mechanically hardly have problems despite my rough driving style  

[Gismo]

I understand your point of view but I disagree totally. Completing that lap could have been vital for me (both position and the UKGPL 50% race completion rule). Once the lap was completed I ended my race.

I'm pretty sure you can do the math of division by 2 to conclude that you were more than safe in the 50% regard - and with regards to position I would say the chances of that 1 lap bringing any difference at that point is borderline lottery'ish.. With that said I can to some part understand your view of wanting to complete the lap, but then at the very least go off-racing-line to the left, you can't reasonably suggest that parking your car on the racing line in a high-speed turn is the right and best solution for all involved ?!?

As said, nothing happened and it's not like I had any chance of catching Robert anyway, me adressing it is about principle of gentlemansship needed in order to minimize situations of unfortunate incidents..
Can't we just agree that next time any of us goes through that scenario of wanting to stretch our distance with a broken car, we can do better by not being doing 10 mph on the racing line when we have the choice not to be doing so..

[bernie]

I had decided to run the BRM this season, simply because I have never really tamed that beast in all my years racing GPL.

I have learned that the BRM is not immune to crashfests, but I know nothing about how to make it go faster!!  

I hate the bourne beast , its biggest fault for me is low end torque , a pig to get off the line and by the time you get up to speed the rest of the field are off into the distance , love to know how to get it going well . Think you are a very brave man,  good luck , hope you get the L plates off sooner than later .

Good luck to you Clive. Bernie is right.

For me there is no real trick for the BRM. Because it's heavy it you will suffer earlier from hot tires, since the loads are higher. Also you need to keep it in the right revs, setting up the gearings right is key. You can run it rather hot, I try to keep it below 110C/230F, but have been getting away with even higher temps (at Pro).

Since the powerband is rather small, it's mostly effective in the lower gears at 8,000/9,000-11,000rpm and in the taller gears about 10,000-11,000rpm...judging from my best BRM lap at Spa67...

If the track allows for it, and most do, setup the 1st gear for the start, and 2nd for the slow turns. Also being smooth with the BRM helps, again it's easy to overheat the tires. Suspension wise I have to run slightly stiffer than most cars, mostly due to the weight.

Despite my GPLRank it seems one of my better chassis' relatively, mostly judging on add-on tracks. It's real fun doing well in the Beast of Bourne, and for me it's very reliable, strong suspension, and mechanically hardly have problems despite my rough driving style  

Ye gods Robert , you've almost persuaded me to try the thing again sometime 

[Samb]

I've always enjoyed driving the BRM for some sadistic reason  . Maybe racing for REED Racing in my early UKGPL career had something to do with that. For a good start, I find hovering at 8000rpm, before giving it the beans and dumping the clutch works well to get it off the line.

Somehow I managed a mid 1:05 around here at in Season 18 (only to be 7 tenths off that this race), so I've clearly forgotten how to drive the thing  .

[Ronniepeterson]

I understand your point of view but I disagree totally. Completing that lap could have been vital for me (both position and the UKGPL 50% race completion rule). Once the lap was completed I ended my race.

I'm pretty sure you can do the math of division by 2 to conclude that you were more than safe in the 50% regard - and with regards to position I would say the chances of that 1 lap bringing any difference at that point is borderline lottery'ish.. With that said I can to some part understand your view of wanting to complete the lap, but then at the very least go off-racing-line to the left, you can't reasonably suggest that parking your car on the racing line in a high-speed turn is the right and best solution for all involved ?!?

As said, nothing happened and it's not like I had any chance of catching Robert anyway, me adressing it is about principle of gentlemansship needed in order to minimize situations of unfortunate incidents..
Can't we just agree that next time any of us goes through that scenario of wanting to stretch our distance with a broken car, we can do better by not being doing 10 mph on the racing line when we have the choice not to be doing so..

As I said, it could, have been important to my race and I certainly was never going to simply fall off the track to let a faster driver past.

 I had the misfortune to be lapped by several drivers including yourself more than once and my behaviour was nothing less than sporting on all occasions. Yes you would have preferred the racing line on this part of the track but I was already on it when you arrived and you had to be patient. Frustrating I know but patience is not a bad attribute for the sporting driver.

Apologies again if you feel I held you up and/or acted in an unsporting fashion but I assure you I did not. Good luck next time out.

[Gismo]

Ronnie, I was not attacking your general behaviour, I'm adressing this particular incident.. If I have passed you earlier in the race I haven't even noticed, your traffic behaviour in this regard was That good..

But you Did act in unsporting fashion ("violating accepted standards or rules")

http://wiki.grandprixlegends.info/index.php?title=GPL_Recommended_Driver_Behaviour#Get_off_the_track_and_out_of_the_way_ASAP_if_your_car_is_non_functional.
(section 3.1: Get_off_the_track_and_out_of_the_way_ASAP_if_your_car_is_non_functional)

As mentioned in the referenced article, circumstances can warrent staying on track as long as possible which you clearly feel your zero-effect extra lap could have had, justifies.. but as it states "At the very least get away from the racing line, and do it with all haste".. which you did not.. why can't you accept that it would have been a better solution for you to be either on the grass on the inside as soon as you crossed the line or, as mentioned, staying to the far left...!?

[Pelle_B]

After watching the replay I just can't help making a comment..
I generally think we should try to accept the gridpositions we have and not try to make up positions at the start, this is for fun and everybody here wants to have a full race, so let the field get off and into a rythm at least through the first couple of corners before trying a pass.. In my experience it very often ends up bad if I try to overtake in T-early of L1 in general.. It's seemingly a combination of things going wrong here, but Pelle in my view you're too aggressive, though it was a really good start!, which seem to scare cookie to correct his line, loosing speed, causing Bob, who also seems a bit aggressive coming into the esses, to collide with cookie which is the catalyst for the entire thing.. Iestyn, well, that just looked hilarous if I'm honest :-D I am quite sure that it was pure lag/internet as his car doesn't seem to take any hits at all (from his pov)

One final rant, Ronnie P. ! Your engine died on the back straight and yet you rolled all the way to a stop - on the racing line! - in the esses !?! - nothing happened but having to correct the line in the esses is not pleasant and costs all the way to the loop.. When your engine dies, your race dies, get off the track...!

Yes PA, I give you 'a little' true...but a race starts at the Green
Of course we should all be careful the first turns...the problem was: I got a gun start (surprised yes) & note: I keep my line all the way around. A Brabham has problems with a Lotus (seems a little heavy) & would like to change, but the hole is not there, the track is mine. My felling in the race...I had to finish what was started, because I could not get behind Alex (2 wide would be insane)...it would require I changed track & I would hit a Lotus.

@Ronnie: 50% of 45??? You explode your engine on lap 37...maybe hard to figure out in the middle of a race  (Remember: A small calculator was not invented in 1967)
I met you in the T6 & thought WTF...parking in ideal track 
The worst...you continue after the finish line on lap 38 - still in ideal track - & let the car die ...why drove you do not enter the grass 

Cheers

[Gismo]

Nah I have to agree Pelle, only change could have been backing off way earlier if any change to your approach, but as you say you held your line and your influence was miniscule, can't argue with that, I have never tried having a start like that ;-) so I just always try to stay where I am and get through the first couple of corners before attempting anything, too many open races T1-crashes in my experience so I always focus more on getting alot of laps/fun than what position I end up in after L1.. All I wanted to point at is, as you say, we should all be careful at the first turns..

[Iestyn Davies]

I had to chuckle as well seeing that, I'm quite amazed that my car pretty much drives through everything on the racing line apart from two small laggy bumps !

I gave a few seconds to the field ahead at flag drop; once I moved, all cars disappeared and the Q bar started rising. 'There goes my start tokens' I thought , as I thought this meant my car was instantly lost; I heard the last time I tried to drive before the race that my car 'disappeared as soon as it moved' (which is when my Q bar started rising).

Got to the start line, and then almost pulled up - but thought 'what the heck, I might as well drive until it kicks me, and see how far I can get'. Also didn't think I'd be coming across any cars at all, even if the server still was picking me up! I got kicked at the loop, but on the server replay it shows me disappearing mid-straight after the esses.

Not sure what to say Bob, that's a very unlucky way to go out, to an 'invisible' tank! Only think I can think of is if you kept further left when recovering exiting the esses, but I can absolutely understand that you didn't expect a 'blind' car to totally run you over .

[GregT]

I agree with Peter. I thought Pelle and Bob were a bit more aggressive than they should be. However, there wasn't much choice of where to go for Pelle. I thought it was ironic that Bob was going to make it through the mess but he failed to stay on the left side of the track when Iestyn was coming. Until I watched the replay from Iestyn's cockpit I couldn't figure out why he was so fast through the carnage. From his view he's almost at the first wrecked cars before he can really see what had happened. I bet Clive and Sam wish their tanks had been so well armored.

I knew things didn't look good as crowded as it was in front of me. I lifted when I saw smoke coming off Axel's rear tires. I had an instant to make a decision whether to go left or right. Dean was moving faster than Bob at that moment so I went right. I started to brake lightly, worried heavy braking would cause a pile up behind me. When Dean hits Jethro he loses speed so quickly there's nothing I can do. Same with Sam and Andreas behind me. When I hit Dean, I lose speed so rapidly there's no way they're going to avoid me. I'm glad Dean could continue.

I'll always have the opinion that we should spread the starting grid out more. Our hearing and peripheral vision don't work as well in GPL as they would in real life, so it's always going to be difficult to locate all the cars around us on the start. I should try to learn to drive with the F10 view. It might be very useful on the starts. The only way I could imagine F10 might have helped here however, would have been if I could see Jethro better and noticed how much he had slowed.

[Cookie]

Maybe we could have a short "no passing zone" instead of the red zone like we did with GeLi GP at Spa67