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  • S29His Monza: October 06, 2015
October 06, 2015, 10:36:34 PM +0100 - Monza (GP 1955-71) - UKGPL Season 29 (2015-16) Historic Trophy (66)
Driver
 Team
Nat. Make Model Class Qualifying Race
Tyres Pos Time/Gap Pos Time/Gap Laps Stops Best Retirement
reason
Ballast
Mark75 Barresi
 
BRM P83 F1 1966 1 1:31.626
140.358mph
1 52:34.000
138.635mph
34 1:32.216
139.460mph
Goodyear  
DLogan
 
Ferrari 312 (1966) F1 1966 2 +0.760
139.203mph
2 +27.157
137.451mph
34 1:32.715
138.709mph
Firestone  
FullMetalGasket
 Black Night Racing
BRM P83 F1 1966 5 +1.772
137.695mph
3 +1:04.000
135.878mph
34 1:32.774
138.621mph
Goodyear  
Samb
 Black Night Racing
BRM P83 F1 1966 10 +2.876
136.086mph
4 +1:55.588
133.734mph
34 1:34.632
135.899mph
Goodyear  
Doni Yourth
 Blue Moose Racing
Eagle T1G (Weslake 1966) F1 1966 11 +3.130
135.721mph
5 +1:59.422
133.577mph
34 1:34.845
135.594mph
Goodyear  
philippe GIRARD
 Blue Moose Racing
Cooper T81 (Maserati) F1 1966 13 +3.356
135.398mph
6 +1L
132.747mph
33 1:35.222
135.057mph
Firestone  
Rainier
 Black Night Racing
BRM P83 F1 1966 12 +3.191
135.634mph
7 (+2) +12.654
132.224mph
33 1:34.824
135.624mph
Goodyear  
AnGex
 Black Night Racing
Lotus 43 (BRM) F1 1966 6 +1.801
137.652mph
8 +29L
134.276mph
5 1:33.857
137.021mph
engine
Firestone  
Cookie
 Antipasti Racing
Lotus 43 (BRM) F1 1966 3 +1.617
137.924mph
9 +33L
130.289mph
1 1:38.216
130.940mph
accident
Firestone  
EvilClive
 Blue Moose Racing
Lotus 43 (BRM) F1 1966 8 +2.733
136.292mph
10 +1.885
127.847mph
1 1:38.640
130.377mph
accident
Firestone  
Phil Thornton
 Antipasti Racing
Ferrari 312 (1966) F1 1966 4 +1.694
137.810mph
11 +2.892
126.580mph
1 1:40.813
127.567mph
accident
Firestone  
bagrupp
 
Ferrari 312 (1966) F1 1966 14 +3.512
135.176mph
12 +3.688
125.596mph
1 1:38.843
130.109mph
accident
Firestone  
francesco
 Antipasti Racing
Lotus 43 (BRM) F1 1966 9 +2.851
136.122mph
13 (+2) +9.013
119.387mph
1 1:45.340
122.085mph
accident
Firestone  
Ronniepeterson
 
Honda RA273 F1 1966 7 +2.216
137.043mph
14 +18.155
110.048mph
1 1:55.139
111.695mph
accident
Goodyear  
Iestyn Davies
 Blue Moose Racing
McLaren M2B (Ford) F1 1966 17 16 DNS ---
---
Firestone  
60fps UKGPL 8
 
Cooper T81 (Maserati) F1 1966 16 17 ---
---
Firestone  

Moderator's Report

SUMMARY
Mark wins an eventful race in convincing style leading from flag to flag. Dean put in a strong performance to claim second place followed by Tim Muttram in third.

The race was marred by a huge pile-up on lap 2. Please read the moderation report and heed the advice. With the 60fps patch, modern servers and good internet connections we should be able to enjoy good close racing without any major warp issues but we still need to drive carefully and considerately.


Server replay time: 0h00m53s

Lap 1 - Main Straight - Francesco Molteni and Ronnie Peterson
Ronnie gets a bit of wheel spin and is slightly slow off the line. Francesco gets a brilliant start and moves to the inside in order to overtake Ronnie. At the point where the track narrows and splits away from the old banked circuit, Francesco moves across and hits Ronnie's front wheel. Both cars hit the armco barrier and Ronnie spins but neither car appears to sustain significant damage. However both drivers, particularly Ronnie, loose a lot of time and more importantly any chance of a tow. At Monza with the 66 mod this is a serious disadvantage.

Ronnie did absolutely nothing wrong.

Francesco moved over far too early. He should have ensured he had cleared Ronnie which means he should have been able to see the Honda in his mirrors BEFORE he moved over.

Moving over at the start is particularly dangerous as it is difficult enough to keep a track of the position on one car you cannot see never mind several. Drivers should stay on their own side until they are sure it is safe to move over. For example P Thornton started on the left, stayed left through Curva Grande, left through Della Roggia then left through Lesmo 1 and only took the racing line into Lesmo 2 when he was sure no-one was alongside (Bastian Grupp).


Server replay time: 0h04m03s

Lap 2 - Parabolica - Axel Cookie, Evil Clive
Axel is fighting for position with Dean and holds a tight inside line through Parabolica but as he exits the turn he applies too much power (or maybe the limited slip differential had run out of slip) and he half spins. Tim Muttram is literally inches behind Axel but manages to avoid contact with some very skilful driving. Axel ends up going very slowly on the outside of the turn where he is collected by Evil Clive who moves out from the slipstream of Andreas just at the wrong time and contact is made starting off a chain reaction involving several other drivers.

Phil Thornton - no yellow flags - backed off but no chance to avoid Clive who bounced into his path.

Sam Blood - no yellow flags - backed off and successfully avoided the wreckage - excellent driving.

David Rainier - no yellow flags - backed off but couldn't negotiate a path through the wreckage - contact was made but because of slow speed there was not significant damage and the result was a simple spin - good driving.

Doni Yourth - no yellow flags - backed off and successfully avoided the wreckage - excellent driving showing superb car control.

Francesco Molteni - yellow flags waving - didn't back off for yellow flags. Started to back off when it was far too late and massive contact with Evil's car was made - poor driving.

Phillipe Girard - yellow flags waving - didn't immediately back off for yellow flags. Started to back off when he saw cars strewn across the track and was fortunate not to hit anything. The explosive contact between Evil and Francesco cleared his path - poor driving.

Bastian Grupp - yellow flags waving - didn't back off for yellow flags. Started to back off when it was far too late and massive contact with Evil's car was made - poor driving.

  • Racing incident


Server replay time: 0h04m03s

Lap 2 - Parabolica - David Rainier and Bastian Grupp
David Rainier is recovering from a spin having made contact with the wreckage strewn across the track on the exit of the Parabolica. David had hardly moved before he was hit by Bastian Grupp, so it cannot be said that he moved into Bastian's path, Bastian would have hit him anyway. Bastian's car is wrecked and he is out of the race, David can continue.

Bastian was unlucky but he didn't back off when the yellow flags were being waved. In effect he contributed to his own downfall. If he had slowed instead of accelerating at normal racing speeds he may have been able to take avoiding action.

David missed an opportunity to reverse out of danger. His first thought in a recovery situation should have been to get out of danger not how fast can he get back onto the track.


Server replay time: 0h04m09s

Lap 2 - Parabolica - David Rainier and Ronnie Peterson
David Rainier is recovering from a spin having made contact with the wreckage strewn across the track on the exit of the Parabolica. The sensible thing to do would have been to make a right turn away from the racing line. Instead David turns left onto the racing line and straight into the path of Ronnie Peterson. Despite the huge contact, David could continue but Ronnie's car was badly damaged and he was out of the race. The Yellow Flags were waving for Ronnie and he didn't slow but there was a clear path through the wreckage. Ronnie may have been able to avoid David if he had slowed considerably but there really was no need given the clear track. The responsibility for the incident must lie with David.

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Author Topic: UKGPL Season 29 (2015-16) Historic Trophy (66) - Monza - Oct 6  (Read 7173 times)
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AnGex
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« Reply #15 on: October 07, 2015, 01:43:53 PM +0100 »

Was lucky to avoid all the chaos in the beginning, settle on a fine fourth spot for the first laps. The temps of the motor began to get slighty high, so I shifted earlier. But then 1 piston gave up and the other 15 wouldn´t work anymore...
Congratulations to all who had more luck!
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Doni Yourth
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« Reply #16 on: October 07, 2015, 03:38:56 PM +0100 »

Congratulations to Mark on a stunning win!  And in the BRM no less!  BRM shares rising sharply on the LSE this morning.  Smiley

Great job by Deaner to score P2 aboard the Ferrari and Tim for a P3 also in the BRM.

Apologies to Mark for not making way when you were lapping me but due to the scoring error in GPL, I had no idea that this BRM that suddenly showed in my mirrors was the leader coming through.  I saw no blue flags and thought it might have been for position.  Thought it might have been Sam, in fact.  I didn't see you coming and was taken utterly by surprise.

Indeed, Sam, our race was epic but thanks only to the generous slipstream provided in the '66 mod.  Without a tow, you had me covered nicely, I'm sure.  Grats on that P4 finish and a super drive.  We were, in fact, lapped so our race did end on Lap33.  Checking in GPLRA, that lap ended with you passing me for position accelerating off the Parabolica and hitting the line 0.018 ahead of me.  Grrr...  I thought it was the final lap and was surprised to find no checker being waved.  On our final 'bogus' lap, I tried my best to make a pass stick on the outside of the Para but bungled it and skipped through the kitty litter to spoil my chances.  Great fun nonetheless!  Smiley

Edit: Gosh!  So sorry to see so many eliminated in that Lap02 business.  I stood on the brakes and went right down to 1st gear hoping to miss all the broken cars and flying wheels.  Lucked in.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2015, 03:41:15 PM +0100 by Doni Yourth » Logged
Ronniepeterson
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« Reply #17 on: October 07, 2015, 05:20:50 PM +0100 »

Sorry Ronnie, I think I destroyed your race (and your car) at the end of lap2.
There was a big crash at the exit of Parabolica, I spun  two times due to other cars before our incident.
Maybe, you and Bastian had too much speed and were not enough cautious when you were seeing this crash.
Just before, I had a look but could see no coming car...

No problem Dave and I'm certainly not blaming anyone for any incidents at the start or at the Parabolica as these things can and do happen. But two races into S29  I am finding it all very amusing  laugh

Grats to the podium when it gets sorted out.
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FullMetalGasket
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« Reply #18 on: October 07, 2015, 05:50:31 PM +0100 »

Tim wich position you had crossing the line?

Should be 3rd by my reckoning as I neither passed or got passed by anyone after the server stopped counting me  Smiley

I did an extra lap after receiving the flag just to be certain - hence the two times you have to choose from - I was taking no chances when it had all gone a bit weird  Grin
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Philippe Girard
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« Reply #19 on: October 07, 2015, 08:17:44 PM +0100 »


I'm pretty sure Phillipe and David were a lap down, so order should be Mark, myself, Tim, then Sam and Doni.


Yes, surely, I finish 6th !
thanks
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Phil Thornton
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« Reply #20 on: October 07, 2015, 08:53:22 PM +0100 »


I'm pretty sure Phillipe and David were a lap down, so order should be Mark, myself, Tim, then Sam and Doni.


Yes, surely, I finish 6th !
thanks
Thanks gents.  I'll download the replay and reconstruct the results from that.  I should be able to corroborate everyone's comments.
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Phil Thornton
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« Reply #21 on: October 08, 2015, 12:14:15 AM +0100 »

OK race result corrected.  See table above and workings below.

Race Started at replay time 0h0m41s

The replay time is when the driver crosses the finish line on the replay (estimated from observing replay - not exact but close enough)

Driver     Replay TimeReplay LapsNet Race TimeActual Race Laps
Mark Barresi0:53:15 200:52:3434
Dean Logan0:53:45340:53:0434
Tim Muttram0:54:19190:53:3834
Sam Blood0:55:14340:54:3334
Doni Yourth0:55:48340:55:0734
Philippe Girard0:53:58190:53:1733
David Rainier0:54:14330:53:3333
« Last Edit: October 08, 2015, 10:13:22 PM +0100 by Phil Thornton » Logged
Mark75 Barresi
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« Reply #22 on: October 08, 2015, 06:52:53 AM +0100 »


Apologies to Mark for not making way when you were lapping me but due to the scoring error in GPL, I had no idea that this BRM that suddenly showed in my mirrors was the leader coming through.  I saw no blue flags and thought it might have been for position.  Thought it might have been Sam, in fact.  I didn't see you coming and was taken utterly by surprise.





no need to apologize Dony, I understand that you do not see blue flags.

@Phil: I think Tim finished third ...
« Last Edit: October 08, 2015, 07:12:11 AM +0100 by Mark75 Barresi » Logged
Phil Thornton
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« Reply #23 on: October 08, 2015, 09:19:28 PM +0100 »

@Phil: I think Tim finished third ...
Thanks for pointing that out Mark (Cookie noticed it too).  It was getting a bit late and I was getting GPL Replay Fatigue  Roll Eyes.  Anyway fixed now.
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Phil Thornton
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« Reply #24 on: October 08, 2015, 09:54:15 PM +0100 »

Whilst reconstructing the results I've noticed a few incidents and reported them.  As Ronnie so eloquently put it I don't want to see this series degenerate into a banger race.  If you have been reported please pass on your version of events if you feel so inclined.
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Phil Thornton
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« Reply #25 on: October 10, 2015, 10:12:13 PM +0100 »

Moderation published.

Thank you for your replies to the incident reports, understanding the drivers point of view always helps to make the moderation easier.  We've published this report promptly as there are some issues that need to be raised before the next race.  Please read the moderation report, most of the carnage could have been avoided if everyone had driven a little more carefully. 

1.  When rejoining a race your first thought must be to do it safely.  How quick you can get back into the race must be secondary.

2.  Please slow for yellow flags (see rules at the bottom of this page for advice).  The flags will be flying for a reason and if you exercise caution you may be able to avoid contributing to an accident ahead.

3.  Please be aware of other drivers even if they are not in you mirrors.  Fran, I know you think Ronnie was responsible for the incident after the start but how can that be?  He was accelerating as hard as possible, how could he make his car jump ahead to hit yours?  Ronnie kept a perfectly straight line whereas you moved over.  Please have a look at these pages which try to explain how to determine when it is safe to move over.  You must be able to see the car behind BEFORE you move over.  I did a test race with Axel to check the connection to my server (UKGPL4) and we managed to do 6 laps in very close company without hitting each other once.  In fact we were side by side through many corners without being able to see each other, we did not make contact and we overtook each other plenty of times on the straights.  Please have a look at this replay and you will see what I mean (there are a lot more examples of overtaking in this replay than there would be in a normal race).
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bagrupp
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« Reply #26 on: October 13, 2015, 11:14:27 PM +0100 »

Lap 2 - Parabolica - David Rainier and Bastian Grupp
David Rainier is recovering from a spin having made contact with the wreckage strewn across the track on the exit of the Parabolica. David had hardly moved before he was hit by Bastian Grupp, so it cannot be said that he moved into Bastian's path, Bastian would have hit him anyway. Bastian's car is wrecked and he is out of the race, David can continue.

Bastian was unlucky but he didn't back off when the yellow flags were being waved. In effect he contributed to his own downfall. If he had slowed instead of accelerating at normal racing speeds he may have been able to take avoiding action.
--
Yes. I was concentrating too much on Axel and didn't think about anyone else, i was sure to pass him safely.

I dont know if I have to change my settings. in the rpy i see the cars earlier, in the live action they seem to appear quite late, is that possible ?
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Phil Thornton
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« Reply #27 on: October 14, 2015, 10:47:36 PM +0100 »

I dont know if I have to change my settings. in the rpy i see the cars earlier, in the live action they seem to appear quite late, is that possible ?
The server replay is different but as far as I know what you see in your client replay should be consistent with the live action you experienced.  The number of cars visible ahead and behind depends on your bandwidth settings.  The number of cars you can see in your client replay is determined by your bandwidth settings.  The server replay gives no indication of your bandwidth.

The live action may appear to be different to the replay but I suspect that is psychological, well I think that is true for me.  Without the pressure of the live action it is easy to notice something in the replay that was overlooked in the race.
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Cookie
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« Reply #28 on: October 14, 2015, 11:43:34 PM +0100 »

The server allways overwrites the clients BW settings, all drivers have the same Wink
So the number of cars visible ahead and behind depends on the servers bandwidth settings.

But in the replay you will see all cars, allways.
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Axel "Cookie"

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Iestyn Davies
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« Reply #29 on: October 16, 2015, 08:35:41 PM +0100 »

Also I think all the servers have all cars visible now. The only one I've seen recently without this is the LBGPL server.
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