UKGPL Season 29 (2015-16) UKGPL 69 Extra Trophy - Rouen - Oct 25

[JonnyO]

  Full server!!!!!!!!!! Congrats all!!!!!!!!!!!!

[EvilClive]

It might have been a full server...maybe even a full grid........it could have been a cracking race .................but it did not stay that way for long 

[Tom van Ostade]

Having now seen the replay, the driving standard of almost the entire field is simply appalling to be completely honest... Everybody is so eager in these cars it seems. It looked like everybody was in such a hurry. The R1 connection troubles and R2 short quali didn't help to calm things down... But R1 had a huge pile-up too. Me, I listened to some London Grammar between R1 and R2, drove one 4 lap stint in quali, put the thing in P4 avoiding all spinning cars, did the same in the race, ended up P2 . Although Tim doing the same kept me honest.

It might be an idea to do a pace lap for the next event, or stretch the starting grid out to the extreme, otherwise there will be more penalties than in contemporary F1.

[bernie]

I doubt stretching the field more would help , IMO this would promote "faster starting " cars arriving "faster" into T1 potentially piling into the rear of "slower starting " or late brakers into the rear of early braking cars ,which is what we have already.

A pace lap could work with a No overtaking rule for a lap or two 

[maddog]

How about a no overtaking rule until the last lap?  Much safer racing that way. We could call it Motor Touring instead.

I've not yet registered, and with no handicap this Season, a lap 1 roadblock adds to the lack of appeal.  I suggest a penalty of an hour of Online practice, for each offender, in the 24hrs before the next race.  With a friendly dancing partner required to help sort out, what can and can't be done safely.

[Cookie]

Even in a pace lap the "hairpin chaos" would have happened, if one blocks the exit with 16 close following F1 cars...

Having looked at the rpy I must say:  People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. 

My vote goes to a limited "no passing zone", wich is practiced by some other high class leagues too.

[Rainier]

I am against a non overtaking zone (during 1 or 2 laps ...in Nurburgring for example ?   ).

Penalties should be harder : a driver, responsible of a big crash, could be banned for one or two races.

And remember : the first thing to do for other drivers is to report an incident.


  

[Cookie]

To specify my idea of a "no passing zone"

It should be as short as possible, not even a full lap!

For the Nürburgring e.g. the exit of the Südkehre...

[maddog]

Many small children learn to ride a bicycle, by having little 'training' wheels attached to hold the bike up, until they learn to ride without.  Cookie has a similar idea for Ukgpl races.  What is obvious to this non-racer ATM, is the 50% rule is not working.  It is causing guys to loose points, and for some, this will mean loosing interest in the championship.

[Doni Yourth]

I'm in my 10th season with the ADC and until recently, the league had a 'no passing til after T1' rule.  It's been suspended of late as entries are down.  There were times when a 2nd server needed to be employed to handle the GPL overflow.  I had no problem with holding station til after T1 but frankly, I think that I'd just a soon go once the green flag drops.  We're big boys here.  We just need to look after one another a little better, no?

[Cookie]

IMO the "no passing zone" should not be obligatory and only be used for tracks that have a well known L1 "hot spot"!

We're big boys here.

 
Sometimes I doubt...

[Robert Fleurke]

Surely the drivers need to take care after the start on cold tires, and rather be safe than sorry. But one cock up at a "hotspot" can trigger a multicar wreck...

But something that might have been overlooked is also the 69X mod itself. These cars have a very different performance, in topspeed, in acceleration and also braking distance. Especially the non-winged cars need to brake a lot earlier. This can exaggerate the problems this division has on Lap 1.

Put in the different driver skills, and overdriving on Lap 1, and you have an explosive mix...

[Iestyn Davies]

Jonny - how spaced are your grids? More than 17m? They're the longest I've seen and usually the safest of all.

Grid was indeed full, with Ray and Tris that's 20 entries for race 1, plus my 69x isn't working and Martin hasn't registered. If there's also a mass disco potential (69x is the biggest carset?), what about 2 servers for tracks likely to be a problem (L1 bottleneck or too small)?

Looking at the calendar, the remaining races should be fine; they're all big tracks apart from East London. But might it be worth considering for next year? Good to have the problem of the series being 'too popular' for 1 grid of course , although maybe a bit more space for each car will help with the crashes . There could still be fun races for 1 full grid madness !

[EvilClive]

From my experience in these major crashfests it takes only 1 or 2 bad judgements to involve a multitude of cars.

In this case it seems that car 1 missed a gear ( innocent enough, except that there were 18 other cars right on his tail pipes all about to nail the gas!)
so a couple of cars collide with Car1 and cause a road block. cars 5,6 and 7 might have braked and avoided the wreck, but cars further back did not see the problem and one of them is still at racing speed.
This car knocks the few cars in front into the stranded cars, causing more wreckage.
The whole problem cascades back through the field, with maybe 1 car in 5 actually getting it wrong, but the result is that just about every car gets pushed or hit and ends up "involved".

Too many cars in a tight pack with no room for error by any single driver.....what do you expect will happen???


Unless we all keep a safe distance around lap 1, or until the grid spreads out far enough that everyone has space to drive at 100%, accidents like this are inevitable.

But that means ALL cars have to not race for the first laps, which is going to be kind of difficult to police. It would have to be like the Virtual Safety Car that they currently use in F!, but without the technology to monitor it.??!!
The only way I think we will avoid these huge wrecks is as more and more drivers decide to rely on self preservation, and even deliberatly qualify at the rear of the grid and hope to be fast enough to get through the field during the race.

[Phil Thornton]

There are lots of ways we can try to reduce the occurrence of mass crashes.  These generally fall into two categories:

• Deterring drivers by harsh penalties or restrictions (PRO rules, red zone, extra penalty for lap 1 incident)
• Removing a contributory factor (use loose grids, have rolling starts, enforce no overtaking zone)

I can't say that any of the techniques used to deter drivers have much effect.  Once the red mist descends all reason and rationale seems to evaporate.

Removing a contributory factor does seem to help but I'm not a fan of "rolling starts" or "no overtaking zones" as they are not authentic. So that just leaves loose grids IMO.

I like PRO rules because it is authentic and gives a slower driver a chance to score good points. There are any number of drivers in the 67 Works division who could crash, do a shiftR and a S&G several times and still beat me because they will easily make up any time lost.  But PRO rules are a pain if you are the innocent victim of a Lap 1 crash fest.

As Robert said above, I think the 69x mod itself has a lot to do with lap 1 mass crashes in this Division.  The cars are so fast there is less time to react.  So perhaps a different approach is needed for this division.  We just need to reduce the impact of a mass pile-up ruining an innocent drivers race.

Keep the loose grids but how about the re-introduction of a no-fault shift-R.  If a driver thinks they are innocent, then take a shift-R but don't do a S&G.  That way an innocent driver isn't punished twice.  If a driver who thinks they are innocent and doesn't do a S&G after a shift-R but is subsequently found to have been at fault, has a minute added to their race time.

That should be enough of a disincentive without introducing a measure that will ruin an innocent driver's race.