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RACE SERIES KEY A19=Assetto Corsa, E10=Raceroom Experience, L23=UKGTL GT Legends, LN2=Legacy NoGrip GT Legends, LNE1=Legacy NoGrip GT Legends Endurance races
 
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  • L15 Donington Park: December 30, 2015
December 30, 2015, 08:44:15 PM +0000 - Donington Park (GP) - UKGTL Season 15
Driver
 Team
Nat. Make Model Class Qualifying Race
Tyres Pos Time/Gap Pos Time/Gap Laps Stops Best Retirement
reason
Ballast
Ati7
  OLD SCHOOL RACING TEAM
McLaren M5A (BRM) (#6719) F1 1967 1 1:26.283
103.391mph
1 41:20.543
100.698mph
28 1:26.803
102.772mph
Goodyear  
phspok
 Team Pseudo Racing
McLaren M5A (BRM) (#6719) F1 1967 3 +1.438
101.696mph
2 +33.206
99.367mph
28 1:27.661
101.766mph
Goodyear  
Ziu Bacubacu
  OLD SCHOOL RACING TEAM
Ferrari 312 (1967) (#6716) F1 1967 2 +0.783
102.461mph
3 +44.596
98.919mph
28 1:27.769
101.641mph
Firestone  
Erling G-P
 TEAM-GTLDK
Ferrari 312 (1966) (#6704) F1 1966 6 +3.087
99.820mph
4 +1:21.463
97.496mph
28 1:29.826
99.313mph
Firestone  
roguk
 Clark-Hill Racing
Eagle T1G (Weslake 1967) (#6736) F1 1967 9 +5.209
97.505mph
5 +2L
93.274mph
26 1:32.722
96.211mph
Goodyear  
Wiltshire Tony
 Toyland Racing
Brabham BT11 (Climax) (#6715) F1 1967 10 +8.813
93.809mph
6 +4L
84.262mph
24 1:34.032
94.871mph
Firestone  
SpecialKS
 TEAM-GTLDK
McLaren M5A (BRM) (#6719) F1 1967 8 +5.022
97.704mph
7 +5L
82.570mph
23 1:30.307
98.784mph
Goodyear  
Geoffers
 Kerb Crawlers
Brabham BT24 (Repco) (#6712) F1 1967 4 +1.668
101.430mph
8 +25L 3 1:29.190
100.021mph
suspension
Goodyear  
misnoimis
 
McLaren M5A (BRM) (#6719) F1 1967 7 +4.293
98.491mph
9 +27L 1 1:46.597
83.688mph
suspension
Goodyear  
EvilClive
 Blue Moose Racing
Brabham BT24 (Repco) (#6712) F1 1967 5 +2.496
100.484mph
10 +3L 25 1:28.813
100.446mph
DQ
Goodyear  
SimRacing.org.uk Lap Records
GT Legends
F1 1967
1:26.283
103.391mph
Ati7
Qualifying
McLaren M5A (BRM)December 30, 2015, 08:44:15 PM +0000
L15
GT Legends
F1 1967
1:26.803
102.772mph
Ati7
Race
McLaren M5A (BRM)December 30, 2015, 08:44:15 PM +0000
L15
GT Legends
F1 1966
1:29.370
99.820mph
Erling G-P
Qualifying
Ferrari 312 (1966)December 30, 2015, 08:44:15 PM +0000
L15
GT Legends
F1 1966
1:29.826
99.313mph
Erling G-P
Race
Ferrari 312 (1966)December 30, 2015, 08:44:15 PM +0000
L15
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Author Topic: UKGTL Season 15 - Donington Park - Dec 30  (Read 12184 times)
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Wiltshire Tony
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« Reply #30 on: December 14, 2015, 01:27:44 PM +0000 »

Tyre pressure fix now available. Download is item 6 here. https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=13388.msg241534#msg241534
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BillThomas
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« Reply #31 on: December 19, 2015, 04:33:54 PM +0000 »

Thanks Tony for organising GTL over the year, looking forward to Season 16.

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!  rockon
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« Reply #32 on: December 27, 2015, 08:36:20 PM +0000 »

Can anybody recommend a car for a less experienced driver ?  Roll Eyes Huh
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Wiltshire Tony
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« Reply #33 on: December 27, 2015, 11:07:14 PM +0000 »

Thanks Tony for organising GTL over the year, looking forward to Season 16.

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!  rockon
Your most welcome Bill and back at ya mate
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« Reply #34 on: December 27, 2015, 11:08:26 PM +0000 »

Can anybody recommend a car for a less experienced driver ?  Roll Eyes Huh
I think we are all in the same boat Kurt. Should be fun  Undecided
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« Reply #35 on: December 29, 2015, 01:04:49 AM +0000 »

PRACTICE SERVER NOW RUNNING
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EvilClive
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« Reply #36 on: December 29, 2015, 11:40:31 AM +0000 »

For Kurt and others if it helps..

I notice that this group of cars was developed from the GPL version , but I am not sure how much GPL DNA is included.

If the characteristics of the cars are broadly as GPL ( and real life in 1967) then we should expect to see something like the descriptions below. GPL models reliability, which we are not using in the GTL version, so you can ignore any mention of fragility in the following info, but it might come into play if that element is introduced later.

All of these cars are basically bathtubs with a 3 litre engine strapped on the back, they have a great tendency to become pendulums if not treated with respect..some more than others!

Lotus....Just about the fastest car in the group. Very nimble and quick with that Cosworth engine in the back. The down side is that it takes a LOT of driving to extract the max laptimes AND the engine is very delicate. It breaks easily if over revved.

Eagle....About the only car that can beat the Lotus for outright speed, its longer wheelbase makes it stable on fast flowing circuits but it lacks the agility of the Lotus. Engine is suspect if abused.

Brabham...About the best all round car in the group, solid, dependable and although not as fast a some other cars it handles well and has tremendous grunt out of corners. Strong engine

Ferarri........Another car like the Eagle, which works really well on some tracks. If you can get the setup right this car should be a challenger

Cooper.......In GPL the Cooper was modelled to reflect the fact that Cooper had a reputation for producing brilliant chassis and handling. This car has great handling but is compromised by having a monster v12 Maserati engine strapped on the back. In the right hands this car is a giant killer

BRM......6 speeed gearbox, and an engine with a very narrow torque band which takes some mastering. Getting the ratios right so that you don't bog down out of corners is key to maximising this performance.

Honda....Just about the most powerful engine, but it makes for a heavy car and getting the balance right is key.

Mclaren.......not available in GPL, so I am guessing that the developers extrapolated the info from the other cars to make this one.

All of the above is offered from my experience in GPL, if GP and GTL are being as true as they can be to reproducing the "feel" of these cars there should be some similarities.
I know that many of you are lapsed GPL drivers and so may already have a latent understanding of these cars, I am not trying to teach you to suck eggs, this is hopefully helpful to those new to 1967 F1 Grand Prix cars.
In the end there is no substitute for on track practice with a car, just like any other group in GTL. These cars do seem fast, as they should, so things go wrong much more quickly... and dramatically.

For those of you not used to open wheel racing, remember you cannot lean on another car in this mod...it does not end well for either of you!! Wink
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Wiltshire Tony
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« Reply #37 on: December 29, 2015, 12:29:10 PM +0000 »

Another great post Clive which I'm sure many newbies to the open wheel formula will find valuable, me included.

If I can finish this race it will be a result.
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« Reply #38 on: December 29, 2015, 01:41:42 PM +0000 »

Thanks Clive - that can help. I'm down to 1:37.8   Roll Eyes in the Eagle T1F (but I doubt this car had a V12 Climax engine  Grin ),
and I think 'll try the Brabham before tomorrow's race.
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« Reply #39 on: December 29, 2015, 02:12:36 PM +0000 »

Firstly, Hi to everyone here who are about to embark on this journey back through time to drive and race the incredible Grand Prix machines of 1967......once more except this time in GTL and not GPL as I get the impression a lot of you are ex GPL'ers, like myself.

I had the pleasure and honour to convert this mod to GTL and GTR2 from the rFactor F1Classic mod which used the GPLEA updated models from GPL as a basis for that mod. Apparently a lot of things were added and changed in the final rFactor mod so it wasn't just a straight conversion. Neither were the conversions to GTL and GTR2. Many things were changed from the rFactor source mod including completely new physics files. Even though rFactor and GTL / GTR2 have similar DNA (they both use the gmotor engine and hence have similar-ish graphics and file structure), things work a bit differently and a straight conversion of the physics was disastrous so the physics were necessarily re-done from scratch.

We tried to be as faithful as we could to the original cars by using real world data but exact information was really hard to come by so we tried to match them (somewhat but not exactly) to the speeds of their GPL counterparts. Having done this it was noticed that some cars just weren't competitive so we did some minor leveling trying to create a more competitive mod for all cars.

Ok that was version 1.0 but I decided that a version 1.1 was necessary to fix a lot of bugs and implement improvements that I had since learned how to achieve. Incidently, this is my first mod conversion and an early physics job for deep-strike (he who did all the physics for this mod). So version 1.1 set about, among other things, to resolve some mismatches between drivers and cars and introduced the slowest bunch of cars yet to the mod, specifically the Brabham BT11, Cooper T79 and Honda RA273, although the Honda isn't too bad.
We chose to retain the accuracy of these late additions as it was too much of a stretch to boost them up to the rest of the field and if we were to do that, we may as well have not bothered creating physics for them and going through the whole exercise.

Handling was just down to me (and a friend GeeDee) giving deep-strike feedback telling him how I thought the cars should handle, drawing on my experience from driving the GPL cars. He would make some adjustments, I'd drive the cars, give feedback, so on and so forth so apart from them being the same cars and the models being the original basis for the cars in the rFactor mod and subsequently this mod, that's where the similarities end. In no way are the physics / handling directly related to the cars of GPL except in as much as our attempts to somehow 'emulate' their handling.

As to fragility of the cars, we created 3 sets of damage files for the mod - none, normal and hardcore but the damage is more about crashing into things as opposed to engine fragility but I believe you will be using the 'none' damage file ?
Probably just as well as a slight knock would see you out of the race and if your crash was hard enough your wheels would be flying off in all directions !  Wink

Having said all that, I am pleased with the results and am absolutely stoked that the mod is getting run as a muliplayer season and wish you all an awesome and enjoyable time with it !
Unfortunately I am in Australia and times are a bit out of wack with you poms otherwise I'd join in the season and race with you all.

As an addition to what Clive said about things going wrong much more quickly because the cars are fast.....the brakes are pretty bad too !!

@SpecialKS
No way !
It was a Coventry-Climax FPF 2.7 L4 in the T1F Wink


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Wiltshire Tony
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« Reply #40 on: December 29, 2015, 02:46:37 PM +0000 »

Thanks Terry  thumbup1
real shame that you won't be able to join in the "mayhem"  Wink

Just to clarify. The damage model we are using is the default setting which is "normal". So the cars will take moderate knocks but you can still damage suspension/steering if you hit something too hard. The engines will blow but you need to seriously miss handle them for that to happen. Just sit in the pits in neutral and apply full revs to see that happen. Roll Eyes
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« Reply #41 on: December 29, 2015, 03:05:16 PM +0000 »

Hi Tony,

Yes a shame to be sure but can't be helped. I'm sure there will be mayhem a plenty for all Wink
Normal damage will definitely up the challenge factor and keep people on their toes. Jolly good.

I'll admit it has been quite a while since I scrutinised the mod closely but yes, I do recall that the engines will over-heat quite quickly if you don't get some airflow happening...by sitting still and revving the guts out of them for example !
I think with normal damage, a hard enough smash will also see the wheels fly off Cheesy

Anyway, even though I can't join in the fun I'll still keep an ocassional eye on proceedings Wink

Good luck and best wishes for an enjoyable, exciting and hopefully competitive season for all.
Cheesy

 
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« Reply #42 on: December 29, 2015, 03:13:13 PM +0000 »

Sorry to say I won't make the F1 trial race at Donnington.  Have a commitment to race the No-Grip race so had better honor it.  Will watch the replay for sure...Have fun.

Bob M.
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EvilClive
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« Reply #43 on: December 29, 2015, 03:23:53 PM +0000 »

Many thanks for that background info Terry, it helps to understand where things are coming from.

So actually I was wrong to directly compare them to GPL cars. Terry and his group have created a new set of cars utilising  R factor and the updated GPL models as a basis.

If I read Terry's post correctly they have then tried to replicate the physics of the cars based on whatever knowledge they could find about that era. The creators of GPL and Rfactor made similar "educated guesses"
about car performance and created their own versions of '67.  I have no idea who has got the closest to reality, and I never will know. But, what I can say is that, from my point of view,  Terry and his friends have produced a very credible historic Grand Prix sim.  Well done guys, although it will take me a while to get "into" the various cars.

From a personal point of view I would not want the cars to be equalled in performance ( unless the difference was so big that it effectively ruled the car out of contention). It makes life more interesting if one car is faster in a straight line but is lacking in handling, against another car that is quick on acceleration but lacking on top end or one car is better on the brakes but lacks grunt.

The cars that are a hangover from the 66 season ( Eagle TIF, Brab BT11, Lotus 43, plus one or two others) would naturally be slower as they have less raw horespower, but hopefully they would prove easier to drive being lighter, especially on a twisty circuit where power and top speed is not such a great advantage ( thinking Monaco here).

Having a selection of cars also allows a season to be handicapped and offers the organisers a chance to reign in the aliens, by excluding them from the fastest machinery.

Thanks to Terry again, I am still getting my head around the handling of these projectiles, but initial impressions are that it works well.. just different enough from GPL to deny me any advantage! and now that you have mentioned Rfactor, I can see the influence of that sim in these cars too.

Looking forward to trying out most of these beasts in the forthcoming series, especially the "B" options like the Eagle TIF which has an awesome engine sound................and actually is very sweet to drive as there is not a huge lump of torque trying to throw you at the scenery.
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Erling G-P
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« Reply #44 on: December 29, 2015, 06:20:44 PM +0000 »

Many thanks to Clive & Terry for their insights.

Am struggling with getting this to run.

Have done the following:

- Made a copy of my GTL folder with a new name
- Deleted all the stuff I figured wasn't needed - all non-standard tracks and all standard + downloaded cars
- Installed the F1 cars
- Downloaded all the updates and installed as instructed
- Set GTL.exe to run as administrator
- Started GTL and bought one of each F1 car

When I try to start a practice session, I can select track and car, but when I try to start, I get a flash of the track loading screen and GTL then crashes to desktop.

Anyone have any suggestions - do I perhaps need the standard cars too or at least the folder structure ?

Edit: Copied all the other cars back; standard + downloaded.  It didn't help.

Cheers,
Erling
« Last Edit: December 29, 2015, 06:34:21 PM +0000 by Erling G-P » Logged
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