UKGTL Season 16 Fifties Endurance Races - Porto - Aug 1

[Geoffers]

This track totally mystifies me, I just cannot figure out how to go fast on it. Maybe the Mercedes wasn't the best car for the track but when we have raced here before I have always been many seconds off the pace.

Having said that I was well pleased to finish 3rd without any major mistakes, just an odd brush with the wall.

Congrats to Erling & Clive, excellent pace from both of you. 

I may be going out next Monday so may also miss the F1s at Nords. If so I'll cya all in Austria!

[EvilClive]

Grats to Erling on a very clever tactical victory at Porto and some terrific performance from the D type.

Sorry to hear about Ziu's problem's, I know that my arms ache after a long race sometimes, so to drive as fast as you do my friend and cope with that discomfort, is impressive.  

 I will have to spend some time with that D type to see how Erling managed to run 2:16's right through to the end of the race without changing tyres!!  

Ziu set an awesome pole time and I was very pleased to get into the 2:12's with a PB, although not so pleased to see Kaifos only a few tenths behind!!

The start went well and I played VERY safe around the inside of T1 watching the mirror and praying that everyone behaved.
I was able to keep pace with Ziu, and in the more agile 250 I was happy to sit behind him and follow keeping Kaifos  behind, as we pulled away from the pack.
 It was a long race on a dangerous track and I was trying not to push too hard and save the tyres, but that almost went horribly wrong on lap 2 when I clipped the inside kerb on one of those fast right handers at the end of the lap. I survived without damage, but Kai was through.

I reasoned that, OK I had screwed up, but I easily closed up over the next lap and decided to play the waiting game and allow the 2 leaders to worry each other whilst I cruised along a safe distance back.
Only one lap later Ziu got it very wrong as he crossed the S/F line and I was just far enough behind to witness Ziu's cartwheel, and an unfortunate Kaifos get tangled in the crash. I was able to slow and pick a safe route through. Once I was onto the main straight I glanced at the gap and found that I had a 5 second lead over the next car.
That was a gift I could not ignore and I decided ( not knowing at that time, just how crafty Erling was going to be!) to drive a steady race and aim for 2:15-16 second laps which I knew was well within the pace that I could do with full tanks.
Gradually the gap grew and I soon had a 25 second gap back to 2nd place. All I had to do was keep it safe and careful and this race was mine.

I had planned to run to lap 15 before stopping for just fuel, but given the large time gap I opted to take tyres as well.........maybe a mistake!!

Pit stops are still not my strongest point and I wasted a few seconds missing the stop position and reversing, a further 10 seconds working out what I wanted to do and then a mistake of filling the tanks instead of just 100 litres to get me to the flag. Altogether, I probably lost 20+ seconds over a perfect pit stop.
When I emerged from the pits I was 4th, but that was OK because all of those cars ahead surely had to make their stops....didn't they??!! No need to push hard, just keep it steady and wait.
After a few laps Ziu pitted............a lap or two later and Geoffers pulled over to refuel..................That just left Erling in his D type to do his pit stop, no need to panic.
When we got to lap 20 and the gap was still 18 secs, it dawned on me that Sneaky Coyote had already done his pit stop!!! and he was not going to stop again!!
By this time it was too late to try and hunt him down, I was never going to close 18 secs over 6 laps. If I had run 2:13 sec laps after my long pitstop over the last 11 laps then I might have been able to challenge Erling. But he had pulled a master tactical stroke ......well done Erling great strategy  

Apologies to Bill2 who I lapped a couple of times, but each time he appeared to throw himself onto the Armco to get out of the way? Yes I was in a hurry, but not so much that I could not wait for a safe passing place Bill. I hope I am not that scary   when I am behind!!

Another race joined without server probs, so I am beginning to believe that I have sorted GTL at last.............maybe  

[Erling G-P]

Do have some mixed feelings about this track. I absolutely love driving here, but not sure what to think about racing here. Both last year and yesterday, I spent many laps stuck behind slower cars, because there just wasn't a way for me to pass.

Lots and lots and LOTS of practice offline finally saw me dip into the 2:13 laps again, eventually knocking ½ a sec off my offline pb from last year.  Well pleased with qual, as I shaved a couple of tenths more off, with a new pb. Potential for more though, as I was about 0.5 secs down on the first split on that lap, so if I could only hit that elusive perfect lap, a 2:12 might be possible in the D-Type.

4th on grid then, with a very difficult 1st lap. Grip is nonexistent on cold vintage tyres, so hearing the tyre squeal is essential. With the cacophony of all the surrounding Ferraris however, that was totally impossible. Thus had a rather hesitant 1st lap, which a couple of 250s behind me took advantage of and made it past.

Bad news for me, as I was now stuck behind a slower car. 250 ahead had plenty of moments; touching the walls, getting sideways etc. Couldn't exploit it, as it blocked my way each time, intentionally or not. Seemed like I lost more time than the 250, as I had to play Mr. Nice Guy each time and brake/hold back, to avoid collisions.  One very hairy moment, when the 250 hit the wall on the run up to the chicane before the start/finish, getting completely sideways. Surely I could get past now ?  Nope, driver recovered quickly and aimed for the chicane entry. Could argue that he had the right of way, as his nose was still ahead of me, but at this point I was by his side and committed for the same gap.  Only by practically stomping my brake pedal through the floor, did I avoid a collision that might very well have ended both our races right there and then 

Shortly after we caught a couple of 250s more, so now I had a whole trio of them in front of me. Behind me, Geoffer's Teutonic battering ram still did its best to intimidate me.  Things were not exactly getting better.  More 250 antics in front of me and eventually Ziu, who was among them spun in a corner, allowing me to get past.  He was soon back, breathing down my neck. Car ahead had another sideways moment, at the end of the straight, forcing me to hold back. On the short straight following the zigzag, Ziu then bumped me as he was about to pass me. Not just his fault as I was in the process of changing lanes, and I think he changed his mind about passing me left or right.  In the moment however, with the accumulated frustration, it was the final straw. Fed up with 250 drivers, I decided to change my pit strategy. Instead of a late splash'n'dash at the end of lap 22, I would pit right there, at the end of lap 6.  With a little luck, the track would be nice, clear and 250-free when I exited 

Took on 3-4 laps worth of fuel and exited to a wonderfully empty track - for two laps at least.  Then I caught Tony and once again found myself behind one of those pesky 250s. We raced for a couple of laps, but precious little I could do in the Jag. The 250 out-accelerated it, so couldn't just power past on the straights.  As the 250 also has by far the best brakes of this entire bunch of cars, and the Jag's positively stink, especially on vintage tyres, outbraking him was also out of the question.  Could only hope for a mistake from Tony.  Trying to pressure a driver into making one is a bit of a double edged sword here - if you're close enough to stress a driver in front, it's almost certain you'll get entangled in whatever mistake he might make. Thus when Tony had a moment, I dutifully followed him into the wall    As we recovered, I got the impression he let me past. Replay removed any doubt. A big thank you Tony - that was most gentlemanly of you! 

Tony's generous gesture meant I now had a clear run to the finish, and could press on as hard as I dared. Made up places, as cars ahead pitted.  Late in the race, I was in 3rd, biting out 4-sec chunks of the gap to the 2nd place car each lap. If I could keep it up, I would surely catch it before the finish, but would I be able to get past ?  Worries were unnecessary though, as it still had to pit and thus handed me 2nd.  I had around 20 secs to the 1st place car. As we were now past lap 20, and with all the time lost early on, I was convinced the car ahead had done its pitstop.  Absolutely elated then, when pitboard suddenly showed me in 1st!    Had 3-4 laps to go and an 18-sec gap down to the next car. If I could just maintain a decent pace and avoid mistakes, not even the fastest driver of our bunch would be able to catch me in time.  Thankfully that held to the end 

It was borne out of frustration, but glad I changed my pit strategy.  Had I remaind behind the 250s, yanking my hair, I very much doubt I would have had those 20 secs at the end.

Congrats to Clive & Geoffers for the other podiums, and commiserations to those who had premature exits.  Ziu, sorry to hear that your arm was troubling you yesterday; not an easy track to drive fast on then, so well done on the pole!

Cheers,
Erling

[phspok]

I think Erling is mostly referring to my 250 road blocks, none of which were intentional, as I was barely in control
most of the time. The incident in the fast chicane was just trying to stay off the walls with a car that seemed
to want to go anywhere except where I wanted, it would do lift off oversteer, and the rear was determined to
swap ends under braking for the first tight chicane at the end of the straight, ended my race there as the car
slewed sideways into the wall while braking, and then I found out that I had no reverse gear, so quit as I was
unable to back up  I made room for anyone that actually made a pass attempt, but didn't see why I should
simply pull over and let people past, though I sometimes do that if I am plainly just getting in their way.

[Erling G-P]

I think Erling is mostly referring to my 250 road blocks, none of which were intentional, as I was barely in control
most of the time. The incident in the fast chicane was just trying to stay off the walls with a car that seemed
to want to go anywhere except where I wanted, it would do lift off oversteer, and the rear was determined to
swap ends under braking for the first tight chicane at the end of the straight, ended my race there as the car
slewed sideways into the wall while braking, and then I found out that I had no reverse gear, so quit as I was
unable to back up   I made room for anyone that actually made a pass attempt, but didn't see why I should
simply pull over and let people past, though I sometimes do that if I am plainly just getting in their way.

We were racing for positions, so no, of course you shouldn't just pull over. Making an actual passing attempt for me wasn't exactly easy on the other hand - I couldn't out-accelerate you, I couldn't outbrake you, and whenever you had a moment losing time, I could pick between braking myself or collide with you.  I'm sure you appreciate I picked the former every time  

Puzzled why you had no reverse gear - was that due to damage on the car, or some control setup issue ?

Cheers,
Erling

[phspok]

Actually, yes well done for avoiding any contact,  I was mostly a passenger, and despite increasing rear grip
my setups was horrible after a few laps with rear tyres wear. No sure about reverse, I did something
a few weeks ago.. errrr. something to do with auto gears/pitstop? I will try to remember.. but I think it happened
at that time, I had forgotten about it. It works ok on  my other racing machine.

[Wiltshire Tony]

With three cars left to chose from and mindful of the need for my fastest available choice to be kept back for the season finale at Spa I tested both the Merc and the Fezza 250TR. The Ferrari had better gearing and handling for this circuit so it was no contest which to drive. I had to get the brake balance and front suspension just right as I found the TR could get very lary under braking often wanting to turn to the left or right of it's own accord.
I've always liked this circuit as there is great satisfaction to be had from a perfect error free lap. But with so many places to go wrong at, you need to concentrate or it will trash your car. So I was slow and steady with just being able to finish in mind. Sorry if I held anyone up and I will generally get out of the fast guys way if I feel I'm a hindrance. Not sure if I owe Bob a place. I was letting a lapping car by in the latter stages of the race when Bob passed me, in front of the car I was supposedly letting by. Just one of those things. But after the next turn Bob slowed and let me by. Very good of you Bob but I'll happily give the place up if you want?
Watching some bits from the replay it is amazing to see the fast guys drive the nuts of their cars. Especially good to see the turns being taken with the tail end drifting out but somehow under control. Great driving guys  
Schottenring next and I had better start practising in the Merc.

[Bob M.]

No Tony you don't owe me a place.  I thought I bumped you in the tail coming around that blind corner.  Doesn't matter one way or the other.  My car was so wounded I was just trying to make it to the end, you would have passed me anyway.

The race was like night and day for me.  The first half before the pitstop I had good focus and don't think I even brushed the wall.  Gained place's mostly due to drop outs.  After  the stop I snagged a rear wheel, misjudgement due to cold tires which caused a pull to the left.  Decide to just continue because if I stopped for a fix I would have lost another place or two.  Suspension got worse and had a few more encounters  with the walls and such. Glad that one is behind us.  Next week isn't looking too good either as I have enough trouble on a open track in the F1 cars, let alone NOS.

See you at the track
Bob
   

[EvilClive]

I can only speak for myself Tony, but I found that the drifting was the quickest way to hustle these cars around this track on most of the corners.

It did require several adjustments to the setup, especially the diff and F/R rollbars to give me a predictable car. What I wanted was car that would brake in a straight line, something the 250 did not want to do as you discovered. All braking had to be done before the corner, any attempt to turn in with any pressure on the brake pedal would encourage the rear wheels to overtake the front!! I normally prefer to brake deep into corners wherever I can, right up to the apex, but the 250 absolutely refused to accept that as a possibility no matter how aggressive I made the setup. So I had to adapt my driving style instead, as that was something that I could alter. Incidentally I found that running the gear ratios quite high, reduced wheelspin and even though I barely made it into 5th on the straight...it seemed fast enough.

Then with a low coast side diff ( to allow the car to rotate smoothly into the corner) I could get on the gas early with a high power side diff that locked the rear wheels and allowed me to steer the car through the exit with minimal steering and delicate use of the gas pedal. I may have left a few paint samples from the rear end on the concrete walls in a few places  . but generally it worked.
The secret was to feel the grip available and avoid breaking the traction on the rear tyres, plus having the confidence to use the gas just enough to generate the power on oversteer, and pull the nose around when impact with the wall looked a certainty.

On this track I found that there were maybe 3 corners where aggressive drifting and late braking, in the 250, was decidedly risky. The entry to T1 was one spot, although the exit could be attacked and the same for the double left onto the straight. Then there was the one corner that I never got right during practice, qually or the race, that horrible off camber right hander going up the hill.

I think Ziu's qualifying lap is getting very close to the max in these cars. For myself, there is maybe 2-3 tenths available at that off camber right if I could hook up all the other corners perfectly, so I might just dip into the 2:11's with a good tail wind.

I still am in awe of Erlings time in the jag D type, a car that I have yet to tame and find the sweet spot. Until now I doubted that it had a sweet spot, but Erling has proved otherwise!!!

[Wiltshire Tony]

Very interesting read Clive, thanks for that.

Maybe if you asked Erling really, really nicely, he might sneek you a peek at his Jag setup?

[EvilClive]

Always interested in how others set up their cars.....but.....this might get quite philosophical   lol

I have long held the belief that in Simracing ( GPL, GTL, iRacing, whatever) setups are very personal. Each of us has an idea about how we want the car to behave and what we want it to do, when we jump on the brakes or stomp on the gas. In the real world I think these differences are still there but the laws of engineering and physics dictate a very narrow window of perfection. Having said that, Nico Rosberg and Lewis Hamilton do prefer slightly different cars.

The issue as I see it, is that we all "drive" differently and therefore any setups we create are fashioned around individual driving styles. So, when an alien offers you his world record breaking setup, the chances are that you will not be able to drive the damned thing because the way that you make your inputs and what you expect to happen is entirely different.

In GPL I looked at and tried, setups used by the legendary Gregor Huttu ( now a dominant force in iRacing) who produced lap times that were just insane. But even after hours of trying to get my poor brain cells to make his setups work for me, I was still slower than my own setups.
Other people have tried setups of mine and come back to me with comments like " How the hell can you drive a car as twitchy as that??!!" when I felt that they were just about as solid and predictable as I could make them.

I still struggle in GTL to get what I want from the setups with some of the classes and have to make adjustments to my natural driving habits. That works OK if I am not driving in a close battle where instinctive reflexes kick in and I stop concentrating on what I have to do differently, like braking early or not using the gearbox too aggressively.
I am happy to share my setups if anyone feels they want to try them, but they come without any guarantees  lol

[BillThomas]

[quote author=EvilClive link=topic=13545.msg251329#msg251329 dat

Apologies to Bill2 who I lapped a couple of times, but each time he appeared to throw himself onto the Armco to get out of the way? Yes I was in a hurry, but not so much that I could not wait for a safe passing place Bill. I hope I am not that scary   when I am behind!!

[/quote]

After the first few laps had a big impact which did the car no good at all! As a result at times I was bouncing between the track walls and even had a somersault at one point. Decided to soldier on to my Pitstop, I think I was 3 laps down by this time.

Had everything fixed and then found my rhythm and the optimum braking points for me and had a clear run to the finish!

[Erling G-P]

Other people have tried setups of mine and come back to me with comments like " How the hell can you drive a car as twitchy as that??!!" when I felt that they were just about as solid and predictable as I could make them.

Lol, I'm one of those people 

No big secrets to my Jag setup. It's basically one of Matt's, which I changed something (minor) in - can't remember what anymore. I use vintage tyres, partly because they're harder wearing, partly because I'm substantially faster on them - can't explain why; they clearly feel less grippy than the modern ones, but I suspect they may help tame some of the car's vices - it's less predictable on the moderns. 

With that said, Porto is really the only place where the Jag has worked well for me; I truly love driving it here     

Cheers,
Erling

[SpecialKS]

Results

 

Nothing worth to talk about.   For me it's like a miracle that so many racers survived.
Always hated this track (and city tracks in general) and - frankly spoken - I cannot understand why this one was part of the WTCC for many years.

Congratulation to team mate Erling for a great win.

CU next week.

[Wiltshire Tony]

Thanks for the results Kurt.