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  • L17EGTC Golden Valley: January 23, 2017
January 23, 2017, 08:41:55 PM +0000 - Golden Valley - UKGTL Season 17 European GTC Cup
Driver
 Team
Nat. Make Model Class Qualifying Race
Tyres Pos Time/Gap Pos Time/Gap Laps Stops Best Retirement
reason
Ballast
Geoffers
 Kerb Crawlers
Renault Alpine A110 (#2) GTC-65 2 +0.392
94.824mph
1 49:46.060
91.589mph
36 1:21.308
93.434mph
Avon  
Erling G-P
 TEAM-GTLDK
Renault Alpine A110 (#34) GTC-65 3 +1.733
93.263mph
2 +21.356
90.938mph
36 1:21.899
92.760mph
Avon  
Jeep
 TEAM-GTLDK
Renault Alpine A110 (#2) GTC-65 6 +3.034
91.797mph
3 +1:01.679
89.735mph
36 1:22.847
91.698mph
Avon  
EvilClive
 Blue Moose Racing
Renault Alpine A110 (#34) GTC-65 4 +1.882
93.093mph
4 +1L
88.247mph
35 1:21.581
93.121mph
Avon  
Bob M.
  OLD SCHOOL RACING TEAM
Renault Alpine A110 (#48) GTC-65 5 +2.556
92.330mph
5 +4.880
88.104mph
35 1:22.859
91.685mph
Avon  
roguk
 Clark-Hill Racing
AC Cobra 427 (#887) GTC-65 9 +5.430
89.214mph
6 +2L
85.522mph
34 1:24.904
89.477mph
Dunlop  
Wiltshire Tony
 Toyland Racing
Porsche 904/6 GTS (#425) GTC-65 11 +6.142
88.474mph
7 +22.220
84.897mph
34 1:25.238
89.126mph
Dunlop  
Huggy
 
Renault Alpine A110 (#24) GTC-65 10 +5.659
88.975mph
8 +12L 24 1:26.288
88.041mph
unknown
Avon  
SpecialKS
 TEAM-GTLDK
AC Cobra 427 (#3) GTC-65 7 +4.504
90.195mph
9 +20L 16 1:24.494
89.911mph
suspension
Dunlop  
BillThomas
 Kerb Crawlers
Renault Alpine A110 (#2) GTC-65 8 +4.947
89.723mph
10 +30L 6 1:25.710
88.635mph
engine
Avon  
Ziu Bacubacu
  OLD SCHOOL RACING TEAM
Renault Alpine A110 (#2) GTC-65 1 1:19.724
95.290mph
+36L 0 ---
---
unknown
Avon  
SimRacing.org.uk Lap Records
GT Legends
GTC-65
1:19.724
95.290mph
Ziu Bacubacu
Qualifying
Renault Alpine A110January 23, 2017, 08:41:55 PM +0000
L17EGTC
GT Legends
GTC-65
1:21.308
93.434mph
Geoffers
Race
Renault Alpine A110January 23, 2017, 08:41:55 PM +0000
L17EGTC
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Author Topic: UKGTL Season 17 European GTC Cup - Golden Valley - Jan 23  (Read 10568 times)
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Wiltshire Tony
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« Reply #30 on: January 23, 2017, 10:16:41 PM +0000 »

Replay and (almost finished) results now posted.
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« Reply #31 on: January 24, 2017, 12:27:06 AM +0000 »

First of all commiserations to Ziu; what rotten luck mate  Sad

If your wheel suddenly stopped working, it could perhaps be a broken wire inside the USB cable. It will probably have contact some of the time, only to lose it at other times. Happened to me with my first Razer Boomslang 2000 mouse. It would suddenly stop working, but could sometimes be brought back to life by wriggling the cable.  Never found the break inside and eventually had to replace it.

My own preparation for this race didn't start too well, when I spent a couple of hours testing all cars on Green Valley instead of Golden Valley Roll Eyes  Quickly forgotten however, once I set wheels on the right track.  Absolutely love it, and likewise, the Alpine was an instant love affair.  Love the noise and the way it handles.

Qual was initially frustrating, as I couldn't match my offline pb of 1:21.4.  Finally succeded, snatching 3rd on the grid from Clive, in the nick of time  Smiley

Start went ok; with Ziu gone, I was suddenly in 2nd. Clive made advances, but I hung onto it going into the 'big hairpin'.  Then disaster struck, when I lost the rear and spun in the final, tight left-hander. From hero to zero in a few secs!  Entire field had passed when I rejoined.  Nothing to do but try to catch as many as possible; it was a long race after all.

Gained places when first Huggy and then Tony went off.  Next had a battle with Bill, who was fast in the Alpine!  We were both screaming towards the chicane, when I had a look down the inside, contemplating a move.  Bill was late on the brakes however, so I obviously wasn't going to make it and thus backed off in time.  Bill still went wide, slid across the grass & track, possibly touching John, as he went off too.  I slipped between them, but surely hope it wasn't all caused by Bill making room for a possible kamikaze stunt from me  Sad

Next up ahead was Roger in a Cobra.  He's never easy to pass, so with all that straight line grunt, he could be a real problem.  I had to find a way past in a corner, where the Alpine had the edge. After a couple of half-assed attempts, where the door was firmly shut, I slipped past on the inside of the 'little hairpin'.  Surprisingly survived the following straight and could slip further away when we reached the curvy sections.

Bob was the next up the road.  Pulled on him what I couldn't do with Bill, when he braked a little earlier before the chicane, and I slipped past at the entry.  Following lap, I got past Kurt's Cobra, when going into the 'big hairpin'.

With all this, I was now 3rd, chasing after Clive, some 6 secs ahead. Soon had a frown on my forehead however.  I was improving my 'fastest lap', but still the gap grew. Not quite the plan..   After a few laps, when going through the 'big hairpin', I suddenly spot a thick plume of dust.  Could it possibly be... ?  Yup, at the bottom of it was Clive's car, and he thus generously handed me 2nd.  He was soon chasing me, some 3 secs behind.  I was under the illusion his car was getting smaller in my mirrors. However, the pit board showed that it was most certainly getting bigger! blink   When the gap had dropped to 1.2 secs, he suddenly vanished.  Mixed emotions - relieved my 2nd place seemed a little safer, but disappointed over missing what shaped up to be a great fight.  Clive is one of those drivers I will happily enter a battle with, as I'm supremely confident he won't run me off track, if I'm ahead  yes

Gap continued to grow from this point, so 2nd half of the race was quite lonely.  Geoffers was 18-20 secs ahead, probably just cruising, maintaining the gap. On a couple of laps, the gap would tantalizingly drop 4-5 secs, but no matter how much I strained to follow up with a fast lap, it would always stabilize or grow a lap later.  Clearly Mr. Geoffers was just trying (succesfully) to bait me.. Wink

Grats to Geoffers on the win, and John for the final podium.  Thanks to all I lapped for making it very easy.

Question for the (brave) Cobra guys:  Did you stop for tyres, or could you make on 1 set ?

Cheers,
Erling
« Last Edit: January 24, 2017, 08:05:20 AM +0000 by Erling G-P » Logged
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« Reply #32 on: January 24, 2017, 08:59:39 AM +0000 »

Wasn't surprised by the widespread choice of the Alpine on this switchback track; the others were handful enough on any surface!  Enjoyed running on Golden Valley though, hope it pops up again one day - then I might master that damned left/right fast "chicane" where I went off so many times in practice. And qualifying. Sadly, a resolution to keep it on a sensible speed through there for the race (better not to go off and run more slowly, to avoid getting as many laps down as I did in the end!) went awry, and a total of three big "offs", one of which forced a pit stop for damage, meant I parked it after the last one and called it a night. Had fun for a while though, the Alpine definitely had the measure of the Cobras on the twisty bits, but  no contest on the long straights. Well done top three, commiserations to Ziu;  on this occasion, things at my end ran perfectly, no stuttering, no inability to enter, boom, just like that.  Cheesy
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« Reply #33 on: January 24, 2017, 11:27:32 AM +0000 »

That was really tough Ziu, and so very frustrating  Angry

My usual detailed planning and practice for GTL races, and the long hours spent discussing the car choice with Arnold and Mabel around the kitchen table, brought the expected informed decisions.

Ok, so I spent 20 minutes checking the track/server over the weekend and in that time tried all 4 cars. Of the only laps I actually completed the best was around 1:26 in the Porsche, which felt the easiest to drive. Logging on for the race on Monday evening I decided at the last minute that I was not confident about the track ( and the cobbles!!) and maybe this was a chance to use that 'orrible Alpine and its front wheel drive.
Imagine my surprise when I joined 4 other cars already in practice and all Alpines??!! Either a lot of other drivers wanted to use up a drive in this car, or they knew something that I did not?? An impression that was confirmed as more and more ALpines joined the server. Better get my racing socks on and look into this!!

Ziu had already posted a 1:20 lap, so there was a way of making this French tractor with no exhaust pipe move quickly??!
Practice and qually were spent applying various adjustments to the setup with Arnolds scaffold pole and stillson wrenches and trying to understand how to drive the bl**dy thing.
Slowly I chipped away at the lap times and almost pipped Erling for 3rd place on the grid.  A stationary Ziu caused a moments hesitation and I almost got past Erling before T1, but survival was more important the heroics that early in the race and I fell in behind him.
I could see Geoffers pushing hard and felt confident that I might be able to go a little faster than Erling was prepared to risk, but could not see a place to make a safe pass. Until he did the decent thing and lost the rear end into the tight left hander at the beginning of the lap.
Woohoo! second place for free!!....I should have kept my mouth shut and my concentration on the driving of this crazy French car!!
I was still learning the finer points of Alpine driving as the race progressed and found that I was only losing a little time to Geoffers each lap. Then after several more laps and gaining more confidence I got T1 wrong, and the extra grip of those cobbles pulled the nose in and I hit the Armco. TBH I found that the directional control of the Alpine was more like trying to blow a feather in a straight line than steering a high performance race car. Even on new tyres, fully warmed up, it wandered from side to side on the straights, further compounded by the strips of cobble that would pull the car one way and then release it to spring back in the opposite direction. Just how is a guy meant to take a sip of drink on the straights??
Braking became a lottery, maybe as a result of that contact with the Armco, maybe as the tyres wore down, maybe a combination of both?? As long as I could keep the car on the tarmac at the crucial braking point into T1 it was OK and I could provoke extra oversteer to get the nose in if I needed to. But far too often the car would drift to the right and hook a wheel onto the rumble strip resulting in a total loss off steering response, and the car would just plough straight on into the kitty litter with no braking or steering  Undecided
I lost count of how many times I passed Rog and then watched him pass me as I scrabbled out of the gravel to chase and pass him again.
 I lost places to Erling and John, that I had hoped I might keep. I was never going to challenge Geoffers in this car and I'm sure had Ziu started he would have been at the front too.

After yet another "off" I had Bob for company as the end of the race approached. Just when I thought I had fought him off ( twice!! ) I managed to lose control and let him through again. We were into the last lap and I was chasing Bob in the folorn hope that I might just get a chance of snatching back some dignity, when he had a moment into the fast Esses on the back straight and ploughed straight on. You might have thought that I would have been very cautious for the last half a lap and made sure of holding the position. Well I thought that I was being careful, but even on the exit of that final hairpin the car tried to rob me of my points and almost put me into the scenery yet again.

Grats to Geoffers, Erling and John who were far more consistent than I was and deserved the podium.
Commiserations to Ziu and his problems and to Bob who lost an almost certain 4th spot at the last moment.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2017, 11:29:45 AM +0000 by EvilClive » Logged

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« Reply #34 on: January 24, 2017, 12:35:27 PM +0000 »

Err Clive, the Alpine is rear engined rwd..  Wink

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpine_A110

Cheers,
Erling
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« Reply #35 on: January 24, 2017, 02:55:04 PM +0000 »

LMAO!!!  well that explains why a front wheel drive setup did not work all that well!!! wacko death death stupid

That moron Arnold has some explaining to do!!!
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« Reply #36 on: January 24, 2017, 02:57:05 PM +0000 »

Err Clive, the Alpine is rear engined rwd..  Wink

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpine_A110

Cheers,
Erling

Just so but that questions why my front end knock, braking too late at left hander, resulted in severely damaging an engine sitting behind me. Huh Roll Eyes

After avoiding you and others on the first lap I drove too hard to try and maintain my place and ended up in "qualifying mode" - hence my speed. Having noticed you were catching me through that high speed chicane I over cooked it and made my fastest drive though kitty litter and over grass gaining the track just in time to brake for the sharp left hander.

Note to self speed is no good if you can't complete the race! Wink
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« Reply #37 on: January 24, 2017, 07:43:33 PM +0000 »

Results

Cool

Decided to drive the Cobra here because I neither like the car nor the track.

Surprisingly I suddenly found myself in 2nd place for two or three laps before I started to drop in more familiar regions.  Roll Eyes
I needed the whole width of the tarmac to keep the snake on the road - sorry Bob if I caused some difficulties  Tongue
Unavoidable mistakes and a considerable fading of the tyres led to some offs and a damaged suspension and eventually
to my early retirement.

However - great fun as long as it lasted.

Thanks for organizing to all involved. See you next week
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« Reply #38 on: January 24, 2017, 07:55:26 PM +0000 »

First off grats to the podium and big sorry to Ziu for his continueing  bad luck.  Don't buy any lottery tickets team mate, totally waste of money I'm sure.  When I first tried this track I took the Cobra and fought the wheel with all the patches and different surfaces and thought to myself, first Blue Mountain with all it's humps and bumps and now this!!!  Were your ears burning Tony?  (sarcasm)   Any way next up the Porky, wow it's not my kind of car, all cornering and top speed and no acceleration for me.  Next up the Alpine, hey this isn't bad once you learn to avoid the rear snapping around on braking hard and turning at the same time.  Didn't even open the door of the GTO
The race was combination of giggles, smoke coming from my ears from too many off track's and being satisfied at the end.  The first few laps I was behind Kurt in his Cobra and we had one he** of a battle for what seemed like many laps.  I would catch him in the corners and he would blow my doors off on the straights.  I couldn't pass him in the corners because he was so far sideways that their was no room on the track.  We did quite a lot of tapping and scrapeing of paint during this time, great driving my friend in what looked like a  very ill handling car.  Hope you enjoyed it as much as I did.....After that I had several good laps and then had a off with about 10 or so to go and hurt the suspension.  Seems under braking it would just take off left or right at random and into the weeds or sand I would go.  Also had several exchange of positions with Clive toward the end, we just played leapfrog as we were both continually going off track.  Finished a lot better than I had hope for at the start so all is well with me.  All in all "Good Fun"
Edit::::look at the position info on Kurt's results info and you will see what I mean about Clive's and mine last laps.  That is just unreal!!!
Bob M.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2017, 08:05:48 PM +0000 by Bob M. » Logged
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« Reply #39 on: January 24, 2017, 10:07:30 PM +0000 »

First, very bad luck once again Ziu, not been too good a start to 2017!

Well, good result for me but not a particular fan of the track, don't really like these bumpy circuits. Also not over keen on the Alpine, seems to have slightly odd handling, encourages you to go faster & then suddenly bites you. However it was the quickest car here.

After Ziu's exit & Erling's early spin I soon had a big lead which continued to grow until I lost the rear at T3, losing 7-8s. Got back in a good rhythm, took it easy lapping one or two cars & apart from getting the back straight Esses wrong a couple of times late in the race, brought the car home carefully!

Congrats to Erling & John.  clap clap Cya all next week for the Turbo Capris!
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« Reply #40 on: January 24, 2017, 11:45:42 PM +0000 »

A race of 2 halves for me., Found the Alpine the most tricky to drive but there was no denying I was nearly a second faster in it than the other cars so decided to spend my time developing a set up which would tame the snap oversteer I was finding when pushing hard. Just about sorted it come race day but had to sacrifice a bit of corner speed to get it into a position where I felt I could resonably expect to complete the race with the minimum of dramas.

Qualified in 6th but even matching my PB would only have gained me 1 place on the grid.

So on to race start and the 1st weird event of the night. For some reason I got no 3-2-1-GO. The timer ticked down as normal but I never got any actual start signal. So I was a bit slow off the mark and lost at least 2 places on the run down to T1. 2nd was a screen freeze just as I reached the braking area, only for a fraction of a second but by the time it all came back to me I was sliding with my nose pointing at the barrier. Tried to correct and felt a tap I think from Tony as he squeezed through the diminishing gap. %*^£& I can usually get round at least half of the 1st lap before chucking it at the scenery. So quietly muttering to myself I rejoined in last place. A few corners later though found Erling exploring the rallying capabilities of his Alpine and I was back up to 10th and we set off in pursuit of the rest of the field. By half way around Lap 2 we were with the pack and gained a place when Huggy lost it in the Esses at the end of the back straight so up to 9th. Lap 3 and I was right with Bill as we entered the back straight and he then ran wide on the exit of the esses and I was through to 8th. Onto lap 4 and I was on the tail of the Clive, Roguk, Tony battle until Tony ran wide at the end of the combination of lefts and I was right behind Roguk as we entered the back straight but any hope of actually mounting an attack disappeared when he simply drove away from me. Hopefully I could get a better exit onto the SF straight. Unfortunately a very optimistic line through the Esses by Bill clipped me from behind and punted me into the armco putting me back to 9th behind Tony. Next lap and Bill spun at the end of the back straight so I was back up to 8th. Got a better exit than Tony down the SF straight so was up to 7th. Caught Roguk by the end of the combination of lefts after T1 and was right with him onto the back straight. Same story again as he slowly pulled out a short gap down the back straight but I was back on his tail into the tight left and got a better exit onto the SF straight and had the position by T1 so up to 6th. Next up was Bob and Kurt and they gifted me 4th place when they had their own coming together. I'm still not sure how I missed Bob's car as he spun but somehow I squeezed through and was up to 4th but a long way adrift of Clive, Erling and Geoffers. Slowly the race settled down, I seemed to be able to extend the gap back to Roguk but likewise the gap to the front 3 was also slowly increasing. Then on Lap 14 I saw a car in the gravel, no it couldn't be, yes it was Clive and I was up to 3rd. I knew he was faster than me and waited in trepidation for him to begin to make his presence felt but then saw the gap increasing quite quickly and realised he had taken another excursion into the kitty litter.

The remainder of the race was largely uneventful until tyre wear began to rear it's head. I began to lose a lot of time at the Esses, handling was predictable everywhere else but I was losing around a second a lap at the end just navigating those. I also had my 2nd freeze of the night at the end of the back straight putting me way off line and in the wrong gear for the sharp left but held it together to bring it home in the final podium spot.

Well pleased with my final position. Especially considering I had been off twice and was last but 1 at the end of Lap 4. Ziu would obviously have put me off the Podium and Clive was also definitely faster than me had he been able to keep it on the black stuff but I'll take it any way I can.

Really bad luck Ziu, I don't really know what the problem can be. I had a similar season in GPL with oAo last year. Seven races in before I even finished a race. Screen Freezes, Disco's plus exactly what happened to you yesterday. I was sitting on the grid at Brands waiting for the flag. A quick wiggle of the wheel (As you do).. Nothing, Throttle, nothing.. Buttons all still worked but no response from any axis. I still have no idea what happened, it's never done it before or since but all the practice time for virtually no return come race day did make me very frustrated and I did consider walking away several times during the early part of the season.

Congrats to Geoffers and Erling on the 2 top spots. and everyone who took part.

I may not make next week. It's our wedding anniversary and we are going away for a long weekend and may not be back until late Monday evening.

TTFN
John.
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« Reply #41 on: January 25, 2017, 06:04:08 AM +0000 »

Sorry John I didn't realise I'd clipped you at the Esses. As I wrote in my post I was driving too fast in the race tying to keep my race position and was driving beyond my capabilities!  hammer hammer nono
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« Reply #42 on: January 25, 2017, 09:04:00 AM +0000 »

Great write up guys, and thanks for the results Kurt  thumbup1
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« Reply #43 on: January 25, 2017, 09:52:39 AM +0000 »

I notice from some of the posts how drivers were having problems with the Alpine under braking & also snap oversteer, which I am taking to mean losing the rear when turning into a corner, not oversteer on the power, which didn't appear to me to be much of a problem. Now I may be saying something that you guys have already deduced, but lowering the braking pressure (I think I used 86%), & moving the brake bias more to the rear (I used 48.5/52.5 in qually & 50/50 in the race) should help both situations.

I used to think that a car wandering under braking was caused by the rears locking, but usually it is the fronts locking causing the steering to be ineffective. However be careful not to go too far towards the rear as this will obviously also cause loss of control if the rears lock up.

Maybe less obviously moving the brakes more to the rear can also reduce the tendency to snap oversteer on turn in, which may sound odd. If you have the brakes too far to the front, causing the fronts to start to lock, the car will start to understeer, you then put on more steering lock to get the car to turn. Then when you let the brakes off, the front regains grip & the car turns in more sharply as you have too much steering lock on which causes the rear to come around. Again be careful not to put the brakes too far to the rear as this will give snap oversteer when you put the brakes on.

Hope this helps any of you who were having problems.
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« Reply #44 on: January 25, 2017, 11:58:13 AM +0000 »

Thanks Geoff appreciated.
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