UKGTL Season 17 European GTC Cup - Salzburgring - Mar 13

[Wiltshire Tony]

Ah, Erm no. 

ok, Sorry ignore me. We were just circulating in practice mode..

TTFN
John.

Ok. If you are online and you need to try race conditions go to the chat screen and click on advance session until Race comes around.

[misnoimis]

Sorry I can’t make this one. I was late home from Golf so I am going out for a curry with friends (less demanding that GTL online). It looks good for next week though so I hope to race then.

Have fun. 

[Geoffers]

Just to say, very sorry to Matt for bumping you into a spin at T1 on the first lap, & also to Bob for very nearly doing the same thing later in the race. Not one of my better nights driving. 

[Wiltshire Tony]

Results and replay now posted

[phspok]

One of my rare weeks to be able to race and it was wasted at T1.
Stuck at it anyway, and had some fun chasing Tony, had a tangle with Steve at one point
when we were both struggling with tyres, sorry if it was my fault.
Went to pit, as it was just masochism with the worn rears, I just hit return when the clipboard came up
but probably should have turned off damage or something, as it went on for several minutes.
came out 2 laps down. ah well, I can do another event in 3 weeks.

[Erling G-P]

Very hard race for me; probably the hardest yet this season.

Hardware changes and setup tweaking had shaved a massive amount off my pb, compared to my earlier best during a find-out-which-car-to-use-where run. Thus had high hopes for this race, but hadn't factored in the raw speed of the Cobras, and sobering too to be only 3rd fastest Ferrari, as once again the aliens got the better of me. Had never been below 1:34, so took a Herculean effort to get down to 1:33.47 in qual, landing me 4th on the grid.

Fairly bad start, bogging down somewhat and being outdragged by a Cobra down to the chicane. Gained two places when Matt & Geoffers tangled, only to lose 1 again when John roared past down the semi-straight.  Couldn't live with his straight line speed at all, so he quickly moved away.  Behind me, Steve and later Bob kept up a relentless pursuit.  Whatever they gained on the straight sections, I had to claw back through the corners, so couldn't afford to get any of them wrong.

Early in the 2nd half, I gained on John, and when he lost it under braking for the chicane, I slipped past into 3rd.  Behind me, Bob had been replaced by Geoffers.  Didn't make the pursuit any less relentless - the slightest weakness from me and the gap dropped.  Got unlucky when I repeatedly caught traffic just before the chicane.  No fault of those I lapped; just bad luck, but didn't help maintain the gap to the chasers.

Very late in the race, I caught Bambi Clive, seemingly driving on the rims. Still, once he got the squirreling rear under some semblance of control, you couldn't deny the straight line speed of that Cobra. His shenanigans into, through, and out of corners still cost me time though, so suddenly Geoffers was right on my tailpipes.  Desperately needed to get past Clive, who was helpful enough to have a moment at the chicane, letting me slip past.  Tried to keep a tight line to stay in front; hope it wasn't too tight..

Managed to hang onto 2nd to the finish of this very tough race.  Had to drive to the max of my abilities for the entire race, so quite drained at the end.

Grats to Ziu on the win and Geoffers on 3rd.

Cheers,
Erling

[Ziu Bacubacu]

Thanks to all for the nice evening, rather is better say for the nice night as it ran at 4.00 AM.
  Thanks to Tony for the organization
  Clive sorry, i can understand the difficulty to hold the AC Cobra when tires melt
  Grats to Erling and Geoffers for podium

[EvilClive]

Grats to Ziu Erling and Geoffers who took the podium despite my best efforts to keep Bambi upright on roller skates!!

The decision to try the Cobra was simply because it was mentioned on the forum as being quick on the straights. My twisted logic said that this track was just two straights with a couple of corners......maybe a rather simplistic view of this circuit as I discovered!!

I discovered just how clumsy the Cobra was in the tighter corners very quickly, but there was no doubting the sheer raw grunt on those straights. In fact I was astonished in pre race practice just how much faster it was than the Ferrari, but it all depended on getting a smooth clean exit out of the corners and holding on as the warp drive engaged. 
The downside was that the brakes appeared to be totally worn out before I left the pits!!

I had expected that the aliens would be sub 1:30 but it was fun to get the monster on pole. A quick plan was formed to get ahead, build a safety cushion and then manage the tyres....simple? what could possibly go wrong??? Well, just about everything lol.

Ziu got a better start and stuck his Ferrari down the inside for the chicane to take the lead. That meant that I had to get past him if I wanted to make my plan work and that took a couple of laps to line him up for the pass. Once ahead, I was able to slowly pull away and once the gap grew to around 5 secs  I was beginning to feel confident and began to ease off slightly to just to keep Ziu at a safe distance. Two laps would have been much more comfortable, but hey! I had to take what I could get.
I was too busy looking for Ziu in the mirror to check the gap as I approached the chicane and put a wheel onto the grass. If the brakes were poor with 4 wheels on the tarmac, they were non existent with 2 wheels on grass and I ended up spiralling into the kitty litter and watched Ziu sweep past, followed by John....disaster!!!
Chasing down John and his Cobra took a few laps more than I would have liked, and getting past was proving a problem when he allowed me through. I suspect that he was aware of the tyre wear? Then I chased after Ziu.
But it was those laps pushing hard that screwed up my tyre plan and at about the time that I caught Ziu and was looking for a chance to pass the tyres were past their best and I was struggling to stop or turn the Cobra.
The last 10 laps to the flag became more and more difficult, if not absolutely impossible! 

With no brakes and very little front end grip to turn the car, I was running along the edge of the cliff and fell off several times.
Ziu just pulled away, and although I tried to hold on to 2nd spot it all proved way beyond the polished rims of the rear wheels and the oozing gunge that pretended to be tyres wrapped around the front rims.

 I was a sitting duck for Erling and Geoffers to pick off in the last laps and was lucky to get 4th as there was zero rubber showing on the rear rims for the last lap..a puncture would have been the final straw!!

At least I have 2 drives left in the much more civilised 250 GTO, but I did enjoy wrestling that Cobra. 

[BillThomas]

Thanks Tony for organising this Series and congrats to Podium. Decided to race the Cobra, need to drive it sometime. This track showed up my inability to get around S bends at any appreciable speed, I like open tracks with fast curves and no very slow tight corners. As a result I take these corners at a pedestrian place which catches other drivers out with my heavy braking and smoking tyres as I accelerate away in 1st gear.

As a result I'm hard on brakes and tyres and tests showed up the need to change tyres at half distance so ran the race in 2 half's (started race with 17 laps worth of fuel).   With a poorly handling car in the later stages of each half and the brakes starting to snatch making the car extremely difficult to control into the S bends causing  a number of spins. Apologies to any driver I adversely affected, particularly Huggy who I know I inadvertently baulked a few times. The most difficult was try to unlap myself as I was much faster on new tyres on the faster section and had to back off to try and avoid passing him just before the slower sections of the track.

Notwithstanding, I enjoyed the event with a new PB in qualifying and almost another in the race. Took a while to adjust to the dark but after that had some fun fighting the Cobra on acceleration particularly in first gear.

[Huggy]

" Apologies to any driver I adversely affected, particularly Huggy who I know I inadvertently baulked a few times."

No worries Bill, I was miles behind the rest of the field in any case.... you wrestling with a Cobra provided me with a bit of entertainment in an otherwise tiresome race on my own, interspersed with going off a few too many times!   Not a great one for me.

[EvilClive]

Thanks Tony for organising this Series and congrats to Podium. Decided to race the Cobra, need to drive it sometime. This track showed up my inability to get around S bends at any appreciable speed, I like open tracks with fast curves and no very slow tight corners. As a result I take these corners at a pedestrian place which catches other drivers out with my heavy braking and smoking tyres as I accelerate away in 1st gear.

If I might humbly offer a little advice Bill on how I tried to harness the beast. I could post my setup online if you want to try it?

With something that has the monstrous torque like the Cobra, try using 2nd gear instead of 1st. I only used 1st gear to get the beast rolling off the start line and then short shifted into 2nd to keep wheelspin down. I would guess that my overall ratios were not that much different to yours, as I was not quite hitting max revs in 4th at the end of the uphill straight. I dropped to 3rd for the fast right hander at the top of the hill and used the power to keep the car hooked into the corner.

Using 2nd may feel unbelievably slow, but actually it makes the car far more controllable and a) less likely to lock the rear wheels under braking and downshift...and b) the power feeds in much more smoothly on the exits.

I was almost coasting through the "S" bends with featherlight touches on the gas, until I could begin to very carefully ease in the throttle progressively as I came onto the straight bits.
Even using 2nd gear that Cobra had enough pure grunt to catch me out, and I had to be very careful not too generate terminal oversteer and harpoon the barriers.

I would suggest running a few laps around Salzburg again and avoid using 1st gear anywhere and see how your lap times compare    You might be surprised 

[Erling G-P]

Thanks Tony for organising this Series and congrats to Podium. Decided to race the Cobra, need to drive it sometime. This track showed up my inability to get around S bends at any appreciable speed, I like open tracks with fast curves and no very slow tight corners. As a result I take these corners at a pedestrian place which catches other drivers out with my heavy braking and smoking tyres as I accelerate away in 1st gear.

If I might humbly offer a little advice Bill on how I tried to harness the beast. I could post my setup online if you want to try it?

With something that has the monstrous torque like the Cobra, try using 2nd gear instead of 1st. I only used 1st gear to get the beast rolling off the start line and then short shifted into 2nd to keep wheelspin down. I would guess that my overall ratios were not that much different to yours, as I was not quite hitting max revs in 4th at the end of the uphill straight. I dropped to 3rd for the fast right hander at the top of the hill and used the power to keep the car hooked into the corner.

Using 2nd may feel unbelievably slow, but actually it makes the car far more controllable and a) less likely to lock the rear wheels under braking and downshift...and b) the power feeds in much more smoothly on the exits.

I was almost coasting through the "S" bends with featherlight touches on the gas, until I could begin to very carefully ease in the throttle progressively as I came onto the straight bits.
Even using 2nd gear that Cobra had enough pure grunt to catch me out, and I had to be very careful not too generate terminal oversteer and harpoon the barriers.

I would suggest running a few laps around Salzburg again and avoid using 1st gear anywhere and see how your lap times compare    You might be surprised 

Interesting observations and advice Clive - given your undisputed pole time, you must definitely be on to something! 

One trait of the Cobra that's always irked me to no end, is the way it seemingly at random darts left and right, when you're going (trying to go) in a straight line. Makes it very tiresome to drive, that you have to keep correcting these, and woe if one of the 'dartings' coincide with you hitting the brakes - certain to spin off then.  Would you happen to have any advice on how to dial that out via setup, if it's at all possible ?

Cheers,
Erling

[BillThomas]

Thanks Tony for organising this Series and congrats to Podium. Decided to race the Cobra, need to drive it sometime. This track showed up my inability to get around S bends at any appreciable speed, I like open tracks with fast curves and no very slow tight corners. As a result I take these corners at a pedestrian place which catches other drivers out with my heavy braking and smoking tyres as I accelerate away in 1st gear.

If I might humbly offer a little advice Bill on how I tried to harness the beast. I could post my setup online if you want to try it?

With something that has the monstrous torque like the Cobra, try using 2nd gear instead of 1st. I only used 1st gear to get the beast rolling off the start line and then short shifted into 2nd to keep wheelspin down. I would guess that my overall ratios were not that much different to yours, as I was not quite hitting max revs in 4th at the end of the uphill straight. I dropped to 3rd for the fast right hander at the top of the hill and used the power to keep the car hooked into the corner.

Using 2nd may feel unbelievably slow, but actually it makes the car far more controllable and a) less likely to lock the rear wheels under braking and downshift...and b) the power feeds in much more smoothly on the exits.

I was almost coasting through the "S" bends with featherlight touches on the gas, until I could begin to very carefully ease in the throttle progressively as I came onto the straight bits.
Even using 2nd gear that Cobra had enough pure grunt to catch me out, and I had to be very careful not too generate terminal oversteer and harpoon the barriers.

I would suggest running a few laps around Salzburg again and avoid using 1st gear anywhere and see how your lap times compare    You might be surprised 

Thanks Clive for that observation, tried coasting into S bends in 2nd but the engine was so bogged down it took and age to start pulling again. My problem is that I just can't get around these S bends are a reasonable speed compared to most other drivers! 

[EvilClive]

If you wish to try it Bill, I have uploaded my setup to the Salzburgring folder online  "Cobra 320KW Q".  I would suggest that you adjust the steering ratio to suit your preference/wheel setup.

I agree about the instability of the Cobra under braking ( actually EVERYWHERE!!) and I found that I had to start using the brakes way earlier than I wanted to and very cautiously. As far as I can recall this is how and where I braked/accelerated etc. but always being aware of preventing the rear tyre from spinning up, and never dropping into 1st gear. Even with fresh tyres the car was very uncooperative and by the end of the race my nerves were shredded as I was constantly trying to predict where it would try and bite me next.

It was important to be completely off of the brake pedal at the point of turn in and just allow the car to settle into the corners. For the chicane I was braking just before the first marker post on the left, delaying the downshifts as late as I could and aiming to be slow ( but stable) through the first right hand element and then aim for a clean smooth line to (avoid the kerbs) on the left hand exit, feeding in the power, but not stomping on the gas and breaking the rear end away, as I got up to the red line in 3rd before the 180.

At the next 180 I would brake as I aimed for the inside white line, d/shift to 2nd and get off the pedals to allow the car to turn easily. From around the half way point of the bend I would begin to feed in the power and "feel the grip" as oversteer pulled the front around to the point where I could give it the full beans up the hill.

At the top of the hill I aimed to ( almost) straight line the couple of minor sweeping curves so that I arrived on the left side of the track before the long right hander. Dropping to 3rd gear and momentarily lifting off the gas just before hooking up with the white line on the inside and feeding in the power in 3rd to balance the oversteer.

Braking for the tight R/H started at the beginning of the darker tarmac and again off the brake pedal ( and the gas) completely allowing the car to settle into the corner aiming to keep it tight and exiting on the right side of the tarmac, before feeding in some go juice for a squirt towards the Esses.

The Esses were the hardest part and felt unbelievably slow, being sure to brake early again, here I took the first Left hander very close to the marker barrel, maybe even riding the red/white kerb. The aim was to keep to the left side, just the merest tickle on the gas to allow the car to sweep smoothly through the next R/Hander ( again it felt like driving in treacle!!). Then wait and wait as it cruised into the final left hander until I could ease some power in. The optimum here was to just clip the inside kerb ( but not get the tyres up onto it) and then aim for the far end of the red/white kerbing on the outside as I turned on the juice. It was a case of feeling the grip on the rear and not giving it 100% until the car was straight and settled.

Hope this does not sound patronising Bill, but I have always believed that in simracing, setups are designed for the way that an individual drives and trying to drive someone else's setup without knowing how they use it, is a waste of time.

[SpecialKS]

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