UKAC Season 2 Porsche Cup - VIR - Feb 22

[Samwell952]

I know it's a big ask but can someone deal with the incidents before next weeks round? As I am named in one I will stay out of it.

Will say we shouldn't get too hung up on this. It was a very tricky track and was especially hard following closely in some sectors. The racing was fantastic once again for the most part  

missing the point here a bit imo..
yes the racing was again very nice and i enjoyed it, but the fact that (i have to point my finger now) nfsw keeps messing up in plenty of ways, and nobody seem to care, is just annoying.

in every race me, Luca or Sam participated, he had made some at least questionable moves, and even worse, he keeps on driving not giving a darn about the other guy. This is a prime example from last night that i witnessed:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2OkAbQCkEc

a little public shaming wouldnt hurt.

Delete that if you want, but imo the stewarding is too limp and spoils the brilliant racing experience with these cars in this community

I'm going to add my opinion here too, this video of the accident between Alexey and nswf was similar to the dive bombs I complained about at Speilberg.
Hockenheim he knew his ping was too high to race safely, yet continued to do so anyway causing a pile up. (Which I reported properly btw)
This race again he causes a crash through braking too late and ruining somebody else's race, and doesn't have the decency or respect to accept responsibility and give the place back.
This isn't a one off, it's a reoccurring theme throughout this series and yet there have been no penalties and no recognition from the moderators that this behaviour isn't allowed, except for the odd passive "people are being over aggressive" comments.
So your actions are suggesting that we can bump and spin people out of the way with no consequences? Because if you don't enforce some kind of penalty, then people won't change, as their approach is working.

[Linus27]

With regards to the reporting, I don't usually but two things made my mind up this time. Firstly, Simon did push for all incidents to be reported. Secondly, and more importantly, I was disappointed that after being spun out, the other driver didn't wait to let me rejoin and take my place back. This has been an unwritten gentleman's rule in online racing for as long as I can remember and used to happen in all the UKGPL, GTR2, GTL RF races I have attended. Even though this unwritten rule is not official or enforced, it is the gentlemanly and good sportsman thing to do and something I have done in this championship or the previous. For me, it was very clear cut that I was not at fault and so I was unhappy the other driver did not give the place back. If they had, then I certainly would of not submitted an incident report.

This is just my opinion but I like to play fair and have in the past put myself forward to be penalized when I made a mistake and took another driver out, for example on the main straight in the GT3 Nurburg race.

[phspok]

Guys, Read the rules that Simon posted a link to.
I am a moderator for GTL, I don't do AC enough to want to moderate this.
But, when moderating, if someone waits for the victim to get going, the moderator would likely take
that into account. If someone shoves another off, and  then just carries on, the penalty is likely to be more harsh
In our other series here, people tend not to put in reports if people wait, or take a self imposed drive through for example.

Moderator reports are a pain in the bum becasue someone has to trawl though replays and then do the admin
But if anyone has a grievence that is the proper way to do it.
I don't think we have actually had any incident reports finished with penalties yet? It's not that the moderators
(whoever they may be) are being wimpy, just none seem to have been through the system fully yet?
Mod reports can take weeks to do, it depends on how many mods there are, and that they move it on quickly.

As I posted earlier we have had examples of repeat offenders receiving penalties, and quiting a series
in righteous indignation. It's not what we want, but it can happen.

This is not the 1st series we have ever run at SROUK, we have been doing this stuff for many years successfully
we have systems that work, even if slow at times, if people use them.

[Mark J]

I gave my reason for not waiting last night. In my opionion in the heat of the moment I believed you had tried to close the door on me and it was one of those 50/50 race incidents, especially as it meant I went off and lost a place too. If It was a clear cut punt up the rear or stupid late braking move I would have waited. The fact I sat on your bumper for 4 or 5 laps previously, continually having to get out the throttle or take avoiding action showed I am 99% a clean racer and could have taken you out anytime if I was dumb 

[phspok]

 

[Linus27]

I gave my reason for not waiting last night. In my opionion in the heat of the moment I believed you had tried to close the door on me and it was one of those 50/50 race incidents, especially as it meant I went off and lost a place too. If It was a clear cut punt up the rear or stupid late braking move I would have waited. The fact I sat on your bumper for 4 or 5 laps previously, continually having to get out the throttle or take avoiding action showed I am 99% a clean racer and could have taken you out anytime if I was dumb 

I'm not going to comment any further as the rules state we should not discuss this in the forum. However, my opinion on the incident differs very different to yours. I would like to make it very clear that I have found you to be a clean racer and we have had and will have in the future some amazing close racing. I'm not accusing you of taking me out intentionally either or calling you a reckless driver. We all make mistakes as I have admitted doing in the past.

[Jeffrey]

Also, if we want races to be moderated, we need official full race replays and not be dependant on drivers providing those.

[Maikel K.]

While I wouldn't mind helping out playing judge and sifting through the replay looking for incidents, I'd be a terribble excecutioner 

I'm guessing MJ doesn't like handing out penalties since it can scare away some racers though its mostly newcomers who quit.

Maybe as a new rule we can have any drivers involved in an incident be allowed ONE post as a defence/explanation. That way the moderators can hear both sides and decide the penalty, while keeping the chat from becoming an "your an idiot" battle 

On a last note, as nfsw defence, while he is sometimes abit aggressive, he is also capable of clean battling. I saw he had a nice fight with Simon this race and I had a very long battle with him over at Silverstone. Though a penalty might be warranted for this race, even the pro's at F1 make mistakes and receive penalties 

Ps: I wouldn't mind uploading replays and sending someone the times for any incidents, but since my free 50 gb of dropbox expired anyone know a good upload site ( with atleast some decent download speed, file size is around 400 mb, but thats including practise and quali )

[picnic]

Also, if we want races to be moderated, we need official full race replays and not be dependant on drivers providing those.

The AC server doesn't generate a replay file, we're reliant on the players to do that. This is one reason I'd recommend everyone to save a client replay, if warp is involved it allows both parties to submit a fragment of replay. One showing contact the other probably not.

While I wouldn't mind helping out playing judge and sifting through the replay looking for incidents, I'd be a terribble excecutioner 

Generally no one would be required to do that. The incident system requires the reporter to state when the incident happened so any reviewer knows where to go look. I believe that anyone mentioned in a report will get an automatic email where they get the chance to respond. No need to do this publicly.

[Brocookie]

Stewarding must happen publicly, at least the decisions, not the decision making.

People need to know own the stewards judge the incidents so they can get an idea of the guidelines you guys have.

[picnic]

Once an event has been published the details of penalties and why they were felt just appear below the results in the race topic (where the submit link is now)

I think everything is pretty transparent.

[Brocookie]

So not a single incident has been punished, not even a warning??
Because I've never seen anything like that.

If so I might start nudging people out of my way and drive away with it

[phspok]

Results pages have included moderators reports in the past.
Like I said earlier, I don't think any incident reports in this (relatively new, to us) series
has actually gone through the full procedure yet. THis may be because
there may not be an official moderator appointed for this series.

[LucaBabetto]

Just wanted to step in and say a few things on the whole "not reporting incidents in public" thing. Far from me to tell you how to do your job so don't take it the wrong way, I'm just giving a piece of advice.

I'm guessing MJ doesn't like handing out penalties since it can scare away some racers though its mostly newcomers who quit.

That's a debatable way of approaching the issue. I've been a mod/admin at both RRL, which was a small community like yours, with 20-ish people showing up at the races, and ACRL, which has a huge user base (last Sunday we had over 90 people racing in GT3 split in 3 different servers in EU, and 50 more in NA). If I've learnt anything from my experience, it's that smaller communities like this better focus on the quality of the drivers rather than the quantity. If penalising a driver for having done something wrong will make him quit the community, trust me, you don't need him and you'll be better off without him.

I've joined the Porsche GT3 Cup you're running just because I know you have clean drivers who always respect each other. That's the only reason why I showed up to these (not all, due to my bad schedule!) races. If you start accepting wreckers and allowing them to ruin your races because you don't want to lose drivers, you'll end up doing the opposite and scaring away drivers who'd rather drive with less people but in a clean race.

While keeping polite tones and not offending each other (i.e. "I really think the move you made was unsportsmanlike" instead of "you very naughty person") it's only beneficial to discuss incidents in public. You'll reinforce the focus on driving cleanly, those drivers who made genuine mistakes will be reprimanded and they'll learn from their mistakes, while those drivers who obviously won't fit with your racing principles will be more easily spotted so everyone will know which guys to avoid on track (I knew nsfw is a very aggressive driver, so I just let him pass and waited for him to crash into someone, which did happen).

This community strikes me as mature and intelligent, I'm sure you'll be able to discuss incidents without throwing insults at each other. You should see the cancer in the comments section at ACRL.

[Post edited to remove offensive language]

[Jeffrey]

I will do the incident moderating for the Porsche Cup from now on, and trust me, I will give penalties if you deserve one   .