EvilClive
UKGPL Senior Consultant
UKGPL Moderators
Hero Member
Posts: 7700
I always play by the rules.... they are MY rules!
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« Reply #15 on: May 04, 2017, 04:36:40 PM +0100 » |
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Can we have a race soon please to see how bad we all are?
As we have a full schedule of races already operational for UKGPL on Sundays and Tuesdays, could this be a good time to ressurrect the BREASTS races for the 1955 mod??? The Breasts forum is already here and available ( more importantly it is not in use for anything else!) , and we have a few servers between the members which might be available for other evenings. If 55 enthusiasts could post over at BREASTS to indicate the preferred evening for 55 races, we might be able to cobble a non championship series together?? Edit:- just noticed that Groundhog are running a race this evening
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« Last Edit: May 04, 2017, 04:38:32 PM +0100 by EvilClive »
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Evil Waza, now a completely reformed character! **NOW AVAILABLE ON TWITCH @ Evilclive67** Rank Only when I sweat
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EvilClive
UKGPL Senior Consultant
UKGPL Moderators
Hero Member
Posts: 7700
I always play by the rules.... they are MY rules!
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« Reply #16 on: May 04, 2017, 04:39:49 PM +0100 » |
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will the Groundhog race be on IGOR?
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Evil Waza, now a completely reformed character! **NOW AVAILABLE ON TWITCH @ Evilclive67** Rank Only when I sweat
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maddog
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« Reply #17 on: May 04, 2017, 04:48:02 PM +0100 » |
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Guys, Aintree is the home track for Ukgpl, but the toughest for cars using drum brakes. Spa 67 is made for these cars! Nurburgring once your setup and brakes are sorted, and many other tracks are waiting, old and new. We Online racers are all skilled enough to make realistic laptimes, after some practice. Spare parts are not a problem. EDIT : Breasts for 55's - seems a good idea. I'll be interested when I've a landline available again.
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« Last Edit: May 04, 2017, 04:51:22 PM +0100 by maddog »
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Cookie
UKGPL Divisional Moderator
UKGPL Moderators
Hero Member
Posts: 6188
Chris Amon fan
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« Reply #18 on: May 04, 2017, 05:16:17 PM +0100 » |
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Axel "Cookie"
poor, he who sees no stars without the punch in the face
an aphorism of Stanislaus Jercy Lec
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FullMetalGasket
Director, AC
SimRacing.org.uk Staff
Hero Member
Posts: 4238
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« Reply #19 on: May 04, 2017, 10:17:11 PM +0100 » |
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Installed it this evening and have spent the last 2 hours trying to beat Fangio around Monacane (Target 1:41.2) The Gordini is hilariously bad - If the brakes aren't on fire then the engine is That managed a 1:45.xx after 45 minutes of work (damn that clock!) but has so much underdog character I already love it The W196 was wonderful, thanks (I assume) to the independent rear suspension you can chuck it about loads which allows you to save the brakes for when you really need them - a must at Monaco - as a result I got it to nearly half a second off Fangios lap record with a 1:41.9 3rd effort was the Vanwall - the brakes are deffinatly better than the other 2, but I haven't got it behaving quite how I want it too yet. Which means I'm actually using the brakes far more than I was in the Merc. This has actually been killing my laptimes as I'm currently stuck with 1:44's due to fade (The Merc will lap consistently in the mid/high '42s with no issues, provided you go smoothly and only brake hard 2 or 3 times a lap). Oddly I'm also suffering big time on rear tire temps in the Vanwall. Might take it back to default and start again... I'll try to give them all a go over the weekend but also have to pick a GT3 for the next AC season pretty sharpish - 1st world problems eh?
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Turkey Machine
UKGPL Assistant Divisional Moderator
Sr. Member
Posts: 1724
Elitist psychopath with AS.
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« Reply #20 on: May 07, 2017, 03:22:47 PM +0100 » |
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Bit the bullet and gave in. Vanwall at Zandvoort's interesting... after 10 laps or so testing brake fade, lines and stopping distances on the default setup got it down to 1:43.5. Not tried anything else yet but the Gordini sounds like fun!
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Everyone knows that million-to-one chances happen 9 times out of 10. Why the hell do I keep crashing then?!
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FullMetalGasket
Director, AC
SimRacing.org.uk Staff
Hero Member
Posts: 4238
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« Reply #21 on: May 07, 2017, 05:32:03 PM +0100 » |
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So.. Testing at monacane has now been wrapped up with all cars tested to fiery destruction Aside from spotting a typo and discovering that my target was actually 1:41 dead I have never-the-less thrashed Fangio, Moss et al at their own game here. There are only 2 real surprises I think here. 1st being how slow the Vanwall was (I've had 3 goes at it and improved the setup each time, but it still just eats its brakes and cooks tyres here). 2nd was just how much faster the Merc was Vs the rest of the field! I expected it to be fast, but over a second faster!? Anyway, times in reverse order to help Mods etc out: Gordini T16 :1:44.62 Vanwall VW 55 : 1:43.55 Merc W196SL : 1:42.42 Connaught type B : 1:41.78 Maserati 250F : 1:41.77 Ferrari 625 : 1:41.44 Ferrari 555ss : 1:41.32 Lancia D50 : 1:41.06 Merc W196 : 1:39.97 All times are qualifying laps in the truest sense as they will literally have no brakes left after stopping for Gasworks (and I've developed a technique to help get around that particular problem ) and will have had a slow cool-down lap immediatly prior to the hot lap to give the best braking effort. For all of these times you can expect to add half a second to a second for actual race pace.. Only cars I've suffered engine failure on so far are the Gordini (at least 2 new engines), and the Ferrari 625 - although the later was as a result of missing a gear entering the tunnel.
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maddog
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« Reply #22 on: May 07, 2017, 10:24:25 PM +0100 » |
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Monacane is a bigger challenge than the actual track, as the chicane is slightly too tight, but a good test of drum brake mastery. Casual Online traffic may pick up, as more figure out best braking technique, as was necessary back in those days. A mistake everyone will make, is to assume the Vanwall is the version later driven by Moss. This earlier one was less successful. But the artist insisted it should have the darker green, of the more famous '56-7, to help it's camouflage.
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FullMetalGasket
Director, AC
SimRacing.org.uk Staff
Hero Member
Posts: 4238
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« Reply #23 on: May 08, 2017, 06:20:42 AM +0100 » |
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Casual Online traffic may pick up, as more figure out best braking technique, as was necessary back in those days.
You mean never use the brakes? Also what do you mean by Monacane is too tight? Did the track author over do it and make it too tight as opposed to papy's too open effort?
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maddog
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« Reply #24 on: May 08, 2017, 01:15:23 PM +0100 » |
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The Monaco chicane was a high speed challenge, but not flat out. There's been huge interest in getting a good GPL reproduction made, with conclusions as per my memories of live broadcasts : http://srmz.net/index.php?showtopic=7920 We've been waiting years, for an enhanced version of the track to be completed . . . . 'Monaco Rocks' 3. Brakes are a whole new factor in pre-60's racing. Laptimes were, and are greatly affected by their use and abuse.
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Billy Nobrakes
UKGPL Divisional Moderator
UKGPL Moderators
Sr. Member
Posts: 3315
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« Reply #25 on: May 08, 2017, 06:06:48 PM +0100 » |
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My utmost respect to those who can drive this mod. I really can't get to grips with the brake fade feature. If a patch becomes available that disables this function I might be tempted back but for now I'm putting these toys back in their box. Don't wish to take anything away from the development teams superb achievement but it doesn't work with my limited abilities.
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Leading from the back at Black Night Racing
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FullMetalGasket
Director, AC
SimRacing.org.uk Staff
Hero Member
Posts: 4238
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« Reply #26 on: May 08, 2017, 07:37:15 PM +0100 » |
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My utmost respect to those who can drive this mod. I really can't get to grips with the brake fade feature. If a patch becomes available that disables this function I might be tempted back but for now I'm putting these toys back in their box. Don't wish to take anything away from the development teams superb achievement but it doesn't work with my limited abilities.
Billy, the simple version is simply to brake less through working out where on the track functional brakes will have the biggest impact on your times. At Monaco this would be the hairpin at Mirabau, the hairpin at the station, and of course Gazometre. For all other sections you back off earlier and either coast into, or slide around corners to save brakes. This will actually improve your laptimes by several seconds over consecutive laps. Only on a qualifying lap will it benefit you to use the brakes more in order to extract time. You still need to learn brake points but just don't think of them as you would when driving a 'modern' car. Keep at it, but take it slower. Also avoid hard breaking as that will generate extra heat. *edit: As an after note - I'm careful not to heel & toe as much as I would normally as I actually want the rears to try and lock because it's free braking
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« Last Edit: May 08, 2017, 08:17:36 PM +0100 by FullMetalGasket »
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dave curtis
UKGPL Server Provider
UKGPL Moderators
Sr. Member
Posts: 1507
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« Reply #27 on: May 08, 2017, 08:21:44 PM +0100 » |
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Seeing as everyone is talking about it, I also installed for a quick turn.
To me, seemed kind of similar to driving the Lola T260 [although I guess the 55 cars may be easier to drive over grass, back to the track!].
But after a bunch of practice laps and a 15lap event against the AI at Monaco - it just left me frustrated. Needed a few resets to get around the resulting handling issues.
From where I'm sitting - anything under 1:50 round there is good going!
However, if there's sufficient novice runners, then I may be tempted - but I clearly need to perch on a few shoulders for some laps to get an idea of what is required to not bounce round any given track.
I'm aware the problem is me - not the mod. But good luck everyone; I'm sure you can tame it!
Cheers, Dave.
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EvilClive
UKGPL Senior Consultant
UKGPL Moderators
Hero Member
Posts: 7700
I always play by the rules.... they are MY rules!
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« Reply #28 on: May 08, 2017, 09:54:58 PM +0100 » |
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My utmost respect to those who can drive this mod. I really can't get to grips with the brake fade feature. If a patch becomes available that disables this function I might be tempted back but for now I'm putting these toys back in their box. Don't wish to take anything away from the development teams superb achievement but it doesn't work with my limited abilities.
Billy, the simple version is simply to brake less through working out where on the track functional brakes will have the biggest impact on your times. At Monaco this would be the hairpin at Mirabau, the hairpin at the station, and of course Gazometre. For all other sections you back off earlier and either coast into, or slide around corners to save brakes. This will actually improve your laptimes by several seconds over consecutive laps. Only on a qualifying lap will it benefit you to use the brakes more in order to extract time. You still need to learn brake points but just don't think of them as you would when driving a 'modern' car. Keep at it, but take it slower. Also avoid hard breaking as that will generate extra heat. *edit: As an after note - I'm careful not to heel & toe as much as I would normally as I actually want the rears to try and lock because it's free braking ; I can echo Tim's comments Bill. Although I would suggest tha Monaco would not be the ideal circuit to learn about these cars. Zandvoort might be better where you can practice only braking for the 2 hairpins and getting used to coaxing the cars through all of the other bends with downshifts and little 4 wheel drifting. As a rough guide I found that the darker tarmac approaching any corner is where you need to get OFF the gas and dab the brakes. Trail braking ( where you keep a little pressure on the acceleraor to prevent the rear wheels locking) does not work for these cars. You just have to accept that they are much, much slower into the corners and I find that I often have to persuade them into the apex with a late downshift that steps the rear wheels out. It seems to me that anyone who is a right foot braker should be at an advantage in these cars...just brake much earlier and much more gently, and in short dabs rather than a long period of pressure, which only seems to generate more heat, more quickly. Concentrate on getting out of the corner as smoothly as you can and maybe try a few laps WITHOUT using the brakes, forget laptimes, just get a feel for how downshifts can retard the car and don't be afraid to use 1st gear if you need to I would predict that many people are doing plenty of practice with these cars, but when we get into the heat of battle in real races there are going to be a host of rear end shunt incidents for the moderators. I am hoping to set up a race series under the old BREASTS banner, just for fun so that allcomers can have a crack at this new mod before we have a championship series next season. But I need someone to help with a server .
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Evil Waza, now a completely reformed character! **NOW AVAILABLE ON TWITCH @ Evilclive67** Rank Only when I sweat
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FullMetalGasket
Director, AC
SimRacing.org.uk Staff
Hero Member
Posts: 4238
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« Reply #29 on: May 08, 2017, 10:25:07 PM +0100 » |
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Just to be pedantic Clive - trail braking is merely continuing to use the brakes into a corner, using them to assist in the turn and carry/shed speed further/quicker. Throttle use in my books comes under the next level of difficulty (Left foot braking) and is something I struggle with terribly both in sims and in real life - unless I'm in a kart where it's totally natural Otherwise all good advice. I'll look into recording a lap or 2 of Monaco at race speeds at some point if it helps people. The combined problems at my end are a distinct lack of disk space for me at the moment, and the fact I'll have to record it live for the brake indicator to work. As odd as it may seem, I'm rubbish at driving hard when I'm being watched/recording and normally record replays for that reason. So it will likely take some time for me to put a good 3/4 laps in without a horrendous shunt!
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