Quarterly cost: �0
 
nonchalant-unilinear
March 29, 2024, 06:10:21 AM +0000 *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
Series
S4455GPP
S4455GPW
S4466CA
S4467F1P
S4467F1W
S4467F2A
S4467F2P
S44JSMT
Recent
S4455GPW Indianapolis …
S4455GPP Indianapolis …
S4466CA Road America (…
S4467F1W Imola (1953-7…
S4467F1P Imola (1953-7…
S4467F2A Ingliston
S4467F2P Ingliston
Forthcoming
S44JSMT Goodwood (Circ…
S44JSMT Boreham Airfie…
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register     LM2 Replays Rules Links Circuits Teams  
Pages: 1 [2] 3
  Print  
Author Topic: Fun Race for 65's at Silverstone March 18  (Read 1335 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
DLogan
Full Member
***
Posts: 712


View Profile
« Reply #15 on: March 19, 2018, 01:50:09 AM +0000 »

I had a hoot trying to get past Andreas several times (successful) and then shake him (not successful) to catch Cookie (kept setting race PBs but couldn't eat into his lead at all). Should have opened a window beforehand, was hard work and I was overheating near the end.

Like Rob, I felt the assigned stops weren't enough and so I tossed a few lack-of-attention spins into my race plan, to keep things interesting.  angel

<crowd mumbles "liar!">

Oh, and Bastian should be credited with my third place. From what I can see, he jumped the start due to a blip of lag, did a stop to try to atone but failed so got DQ'ed (and not credited past the 4th lap). He worked his way from last place to 5th on the road despite that S&G. At the finish, he trailed Andreas and I by much less than the 10ish seconds a stop costs here, so crediting those back puts him on the podium today. Well deserved, very good drive. thumbup1
« Last Edit: March 19, 2018, 01:55:05 AM +0000 by DLogan » Logged
Billy Nobrakes
UKGPL Divisional Moderator
UKGPL Moderators
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 3315



View Profile
« Reply #16 on: March 19, 2018, 07:26:50 AM +0000 »

Interesting format, although it seemed the pros were driving  faster than ever. I lost track of where Clive was & tripped up. My error & the reset + stop & go left me stranded. Robert seemed to be taking SnG laps as fast as O was driving. Welcome return to the 65 cars.
Logged

Leading from the back at Black Night Racing
bagrupp
Full Member
***
Posts: 798


View Profile
« Reply #17 on: March 19, 2018, 08:21:38 AM +0000 »

Thanks Dean.

After that start lag i pushed instictivly the throttle. I've never jumped a start before online, but decided to make a s'n'g after lap 1. I realised after the pits that gpl wants me to have a 10 seconds at my board, but i decided to go on for the fun and ask the Moderator if the s'n'g is enough "penalty" and additionaly just asking how we handle jumps starts in the league races. i guess not really happens often ?

I also had two spins...

According to my speed goin' up i'm not sure still to be amateur/privateer in S33 ?
But i'm still havin' much mistakes....

FUN RACE !
Logged
EvilClive
UKGPL Senior Consultant
UKGPL Moderators
Hero Member
****
Posts: 7700

I always play by the rules.... they are MY rules!


View Profile
« Reply #18 on: March 19, 2018, 09:19:43 AM +0000 »

Thanks for the feedback guys. This was a way to test another handicap idea for races where we have Pro's and Am's in the same race.

 I don't think that any form of this system would be used in a championship race, but with some adjustments it might be a way of levelling the grid for fun races. I was looking for another way because the use of chassis handicaps did not seem to be slowing down the fast guys enough, and I felt we needed a method that would give them a time penalty that was approximately equal to the performance difference. Proper timed pitstops are possible, but they are very difficult to monitor and are generally disliked because of the quirks of GPL that tends to disco stationary cars.

I think it shows just how quick Robert is if he can take 4 SnG's and still finish at the front!!!. The intention was never to handicap the Pro drivers so that they could not possibly win, but to prevent the field splitting into 2 groups. I think a full grid might have created a more interesting race, because I had expected that there would be cars entering and leaving the pits throughout the race. In fact I only saw one car in the pit lane throughout the whole race!! and that was when I passed Doni as he took one of his stops!!!!

With his alien ability Robert was always favourite to win, but if there had been 5 or 6 stops for Pro drivers it would have been a little too artificial. With my mediocre pace and the stops I found myself chasing Billy for the first laps and failing to find a way past, until I had to use the "demon braking" button in the Honda to force a way around him.
I hoped that I could chase down the leaders but then Jack decided to use his extra wide BRM and make life tricky for my final 2 stops and the rest of the race.

I saw Bastian jump the start when all the grid vanished and re-appeared. In fact I almost did the same thing, I guess that it shows how focused we are on getting a good start and that any stimulus triggers a response? This was just a fun race and carries no points so Bastian can consider himself 3rd if Dean and Andreas believe he should have been in front.

I have been racking my memory cells to think of a circuit with a chicane for the pit entry/exit. That would remove the need for an actual STOP in the pitlane and we could use "drive thru's" instead? Maybe even giving the aliens an extra stop  ( or two?)Huh?

Logged

Evil Waza, now a completely reformed character!
          **NOW AVAILABLE ON TWITCH @ Evilclive67**
Rank   Only when I sweat
Billy Nobrakes
UKGPL Divisional Moderator
UKGPL Moderators
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 3315



View Profile
« Reply #19 on: March 19, 2018, 02:17:17 PM +0000 »

Castle Coombe pit lane might fit the ticket. Perhaps Kiemola? Another variation is to use the refuelling stop patch which requires the car to be stationary for a bit. This only becomes enforcible if the race is longer than a full tank - or you set a maximum starting fuel load & everyone is honest, which I think most members are.
Logged

Leading from the back at Black Night Racing
maddog
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 1709


View Profile
« Reply #20 on: March 19, 2018, 03:37:36 PM +0000 »

Not many slow entrances, as pitlane speed limits weren't considered necessary back then.

Handicap races were common while my Grandfather was racing.  Cars were started separately, but would theoretically all be finished together in a heap, at the finish line!  My Gran. survived, and won several times at Brooklands.  

This staggering idea for Ukgpl, was dismissed as too dangerous in the past, but would make an interesting challenge, now that we are all Online experts.  No fear here, but no Landline either ATM, so no help in handicap testing.  However, I could supply a precautionary Wifi Ambulance.  angel
« Last Edit: March 19, 2018, 03:41:19 PM +0000 by maddog » Logged
Robert Fleurke
Former UKGPL Moderators
Sr. Member
**
Posts: 1701


GPL Forever!


View Profile
« Reply #21 on: March 19, 2018, 04:29:52 PM +0000 »

Tandil pitlane would be fun, actually there's no pitlane, just grass  Grin

At Silverstone my 4 Sng's did cost 45s. On average 11.25s.

I should have taken T77/BT7, but I'm a bit tired taking those cars since I drove them mostly last few seasons. It's fun to do well in those cars, but you hardly can pass clean with them lacking top end. I prefer car handicaps above SnG handicap, but arguably a combination of both might be due to an experiment.

Prior to the race I didn't like it, artifical handicapping. However during the race I enjoyed it trying to get in the mix, but I should have done my first stop earlier, before the others. 65s is still my favo mod after original 67s! I'm old school Smiley (yes I'm into all mods, but for TC)
Logged

Driving for Antipasti Racing

EvilClive
UKGPL Senior Consultant
UKGPL Moderators
Hero Member
****
Posts: 7700

I always play by the rules.... they are MY rules!


View Profile
« Reply #22 on: March 19, 2018, 04:46:17 PM +0000 »

Castle Coombe was a track that I had not considered Bill, I will need to go and take a fresh look there and at Kiemola.


Yes Martin, pitlanes were a lot more of a lottery back then....no speed limit on entry, so cars would hurtle into the pits dodging other pitcrews, and then roar out again burning rubber and the occasional press photographer who was in the way....no fireproof overalls for the mechanics ( in fact no overalls at all, just the random flat cap!!) refuelling often took place with a fag hanging out of one of the mechanics mouths........... wheels removed with a large mallet or hammer with knock on centre nuts. ahhh!! the good old days  Wink

Many years ago when we had 4 divisions...(I can't believe I have been around for that long!!!) we regularly ran races for the top divisions at UKGPL with pitstops, and these were anything up to a minute plus, depending on the chassis and track. This was in the days of dial-up modems when "broadband" was unheard of.
Geeez I feel old!!

The stop times were based upon the world record times for each chassis at the track we were racing, not upon the drivers ability. There is, still in existence, a spreadsheet that calculates the stop times for the 67 cars.
In theory if every car was running at WR pace ( without mistakes  Roll Eyes ) all cars would reach the chequered flag together, just like Martin's grandparents, although maybe not in a heap?? In practice everyone was running more slowly than WR pace but the maths worked out just the same.

It took a while to learn how to do the longer stops. It was necessary to rev the engine and move a few metres down the pitlane every 20secs to avoid being disco'd by the software, but we all got used to it and it worked quite well. I think the cunning maths involved in the calculations always allowed for one car to complete the race without a stop, so there was always an "escape clause" for those who did not want to risk a stop.

Even an elite driver who selected a Lotus had to really earn his champagne after a 2 minute stop, often not regaining the lead position until the very last laps. The one thing that it did was to give grids using all of the cars in most races as drivers calculated whether they could use the extra pace of some cars to negate the handicap of a pitstop.

oops! just saw Robert's post and will add Tandil to the "look at" list. I think it was fine that you avoided the BT7 and T77 for this race, I am sure that you have seen enough of those cars.  Wink
This was most definitely intended to be a FUN race with something different for everyone to try. I wish we could find a way around the various software glitches that prevent simple pitstops in GPL.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2018, 04:50:09 PM +0000 by EvilClive » Logged

Evil Waza, now a completely reformed character!
          **NOW AVAILABLE ON TWITCH @ Evilclive67**
Rank   Only when I sweat
Jack O'Ferrall
Former UKGPL Moderators
Full Member
**
Posts: 904


View Profile
« Reply #23 on: March 19, 2018, 05:52:02 PM +0000 »

I wish I had enough talent to have an extra-wide BRM, the second time Clive hovered off my right quarter I attempted to allow him the space to pass!  This ended sadly with me clipping the inside and a spin that seemed to take more than a dozen seconds to recover.

While this was only a trial of a new handicap method, of the slower cars there was only Doni's T77.  Pit stops force the fastest drivers into the fastest cars, is this not obviously an error?  Also, Robert might have problems passing with the BT7 however isn't pit stops just going to transfer the issue further down the field- as Clive experienced when his stops brought him behind me?

The old system of handicap by cars was not intended to mix faster and slower drivers, and you would have to combine it with personal handicaps if you wanted closer racing between drivers of unequal ability?  Asking faster drivers to use the BT7 or Cooper seems far more elegant than racing by spreadsheet?     

Robert's extra stop inspired the notion that perhaps the best 'fun' handicap would just be to have the leader forced to pit!  So, if you were ahead at the finish line you needed to pit on the next lap- unless you only passed the finish in the pits, or it was the last lap.  Then if Robert led an entire thirty-lap race he would need fourteen stops.  This might seem extreme, however he would only need to be 4.6s faster if each pit stop only takes 10s.  I'm not sure that a system only of use at pits with chicanes is viable.
Logged
Billy Nobrakes
UKGPL Divisional Moderator
UKGPL Moderators
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 3315



View Profile
« Reply #24 on: March 19, 2018, 06:47:18 PM +0000 »

I often feel a little guilty setting a handicap to slow down the top drivers. It feels more honorable to compete on even terms but the reality is we have a fairly small pool of drivers with very mixed abilities. I can't see there is a great deal of fun to be had for a top pro if you are easily quicker than the field. Hence we continue to experiment with different ways to level up the competition. One other variation I came across during a few forays with Groundhog was the virtual safety car. About half distance the leader would slow down for a bit to allow the stragglers to catch up. (No overtaking permitted). GPL is at its best when you are in close competition & the VSC achieved this.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2018, 06:50:37 PM +0000 by Billy Nobrakes » Logged

Leading from the back at Black Night Racing
Gareth
Full Member
***
Posts: 231


View Profile
« Reply #25 on: March 20, 2018, 07:10:30 AM +0000 »

As we are the subject of levelling the field. Is it possible to do anything with setups. i.e you have to use the default?
Logged
Robert Fleurke
Former UKGPL Moderators
Sr. Member
**
Posts: 1701


GPL Forever!


View Profile
« Reply #26 on: March 20, 2018, 04:16:15 PM +0000 »

Robert's extra stop inspired the notion that perhaps the best 'fun' handicap would just be to have the leader forced to pit!  So, if you were ahead at the finish line you needed to pit on the next lap- unless you only passed the finish in the pits, or it was the last lap.  Then if Robert led an entire thirty-lap race he would need fourteen stops.  This might seem extreme, however he would only need to be 4.6s faster if each pit stop only takes 10s.  I'm not sure that a system only of use at pits with chicanes is viable.

I already have a cheeky strategy, I will let P2 take the lead everytime just before s/f! angel That way I still will win!  whistling Wacky Races! Cheesy



Personally I'm not a fan of fixed setups, and you can't enforce it with GPL. Setups are personal and depending on hardware (control device), linearity and driving style. Also the secret being fast with GPL does not lie in setups, but more in practising, analyzing, experience and skill. I also won races with fixed setups with NR2003 and/or iRacing. It's a matter of being able to adapt your driving (style) to the setup, you could still change brakebias and steering ratio.

In general I'm not a big fan of artificial handicapping, all I can do myself is restricting myself to the slowest cars. I'm trying to do my best to be in the mix in all leagues I compete, and still being able to fight for podium/win. That said, nothing wrong with a bit of experimenting, but in the end the fastest drivers will be at the sharp end of the grid anyhow.

My biggest wish would be other drivers improve at a faster rate than me, because I'm not done yet I'm afraid...I'm faster in my late 40s than in my early 30s.  Wink
Logged

Driving for Antipasti Racing

DLogan
Full Member
***
Posts: 712


View Profile
« Reply #27 on: March 20, 2018, 05:36:30 PM +0000 »

...Is it possible to do anything with setups...

One method I've seen used successfully (YAOL? VOR maybe? I forget) was fuel handicaps, where wins and championships would add gallons to your starting fuel (accumulative). Carried over seasons, it morphed into a pseudo driver rating, where the fastest guys (eg. Urban Anselmyr) would be starting with 20 more gallons than necessary for the race distance (tested, announced, and agreed before the event), I was at +12 or so, and any rookies or unrated drivers would have just the "basic load". The extra 100lb.+ makes a big difference to the 65's.

Plus sides: car choice is still free, no pitstop(s) confusion, straight race to the finish line. Down sides: lack of verifiability, some extra admin load (doing the figures, listening to complaints Wink).
« Last Edit: March 20, 2018, 05:52:57 PM +0000 by DLogan » Logged
Gareth
Full Member
***
Posts: 231


View Profile
« Reply #28 on: March 20, 2018, 08:18:04 PM +0000 »

"Also the secret being fast with GPL does not lie in setups"  very true, but it helps Smiley

"...I'm faster in my late 40s than in my early 30s" Yay!  Grin there is hope yet

The setup idea was just a thought not really do-able, but, Dean's fuel thing may work but I suppose it would depend on honesty, I understand that is a given anyway.

I guess we just need to practice more.

Logged
EvilClive
UKGPL Senior Consultant
UKGPL Moderators
Hero Member
****
Posts: 7700

I always play by the rules.... they are MY rules!


View Profile
« Reply #29 on: March 20, 2018, 10:09:01 PM +0000 »

I had a disco during practice and a game freeze during the race exiting the final turn?

Was it just me, or did others have any probs. I thought that this track was stable and reliable, so I hope the problems were at my client end.
Logged

Evil Waza, now a completely reformed character!
          **NOW AVAILABLE ON TWITCH @ Evilclive67**
Rank   Only when I sweat
Pages: 1 [2] 3
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Hosted by DaveGymer.com
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.273 seconds with 32 queries.
anything