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  • S3355F1 Silverstone: September 23, 2018
September 23, 2018, 11:00:12 PM +0100 - Silverstone (GP 1952-73) - UKGPL Season 33 (2018) 1955 Grand Prix
Driver
 Team
Nat. Make Model Class Qualifying Race
Tyres Pos Time/Gap Pos Time/Gap Laps Stops Best Retirement
reason
Ballast
Clive Loynes
 Soggy Bottom Racers Club
Mercedes W196 F1 1955 2 +0.074
101.372mph
1 47:23.581
100.043mph
27 1:43.417
101.882mph
Continental  
EvilClive
 Blue Moose Racing
Connaught Type B F1 1955 3 +0.151
101.297mph
2 +12.088
99.620mph
27 1:44.371
100.951mph
Pirelli  
Jeep
 TEAM-GTLDK
Lancia D50 F1 1955 5 +1.620
99.886mph
3 +14.222
99.546mph
27 1:44.701
100.633mph
Pirelli  
fpolicardi
 Team7
Lancia D50 F1 1955 6 +1.869
99.651mph
4 +2L
97.766mph
25 1:46.663
98.782mph
Pirelli  
uli
 
Lancia D50 F1 1955 1 1:43.864
101.444mph
5 +26L
95.216mph
1 1:50.960
94.956mph
Disco
Pirelli  
Cookie
 Antipasti Racing
Lancia D50 F1 1955 4 +1.341
100.151mph
6 +1.735
93.747mph
1 1:50.902
95.006mph
Disco
Pirelli  
francesco
 Soggy Bottom Racers Club
Vanwall VW55 F1 1955 7 +2.982
98.613mph
7 +4.305
91.651mph
1 1:50.946
94.968mph
Disco
Pirelli  
francesco
 Soggy Bottom Racers Club
Lancia D50 F1 1955 8 DNS ---
---
Pirelli  
60fps UKGPL8
 
Gordini T16 F1 1955 8 9 ---
---
Englebert  

Moderator's Report

A clean race with no reported incidents.

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Phil Thornton
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« on: September 13, 2018, 10:33:58 PM +0100 »

1955 Grand Prix - Round 10 – Silverstone

The final round in the 1955 Grand Prix series is at Silverstone, England. The venue for the 1954 British Grand Prix (the 1955 British Grand Prix was held at Aintree) the circuit is built on a disused airfield and comprises a mixture of sections of peri track and sections of runway. Silverstone was first used for motorsport by an ad hoc group of friends who, in September 1947, set up an impromptu race up and down the runway. The next year the Royal Automobile Club took a lease on the airfield and set out a more formal racing circuit. Their first two races were held on the runways themselves, with long straights separated by tight hairpin corners, the track was demarcated by hay bales. However, for the 1949 International Trophy meeting, it was decided to switch to the perimeter track. This arrangement was used for the 1950 and 1951 Grands Prix. In 1952 the start line was moved from the Farm Straight to the straight linking Woodcote and Copse corners, this layout remained largely unaltered for the following 38 years and will be the layout that we will be using tonight.
 
Carefully read the rules on the championship standings page.

Race listiGOR
ServerUKGPL_8
IP addressCheck IGOR
Date23-09-2018
TrackSilverstone - Papyrus Original
Mod55F1 with 60fpsV2newmod
Damage PRO long
Race time~ 21:30 UK time
Qualifying 20:45 UK time - 45 minutes
Race length27 laps
Replay here

Please restrict chat to emergency messages only including at the end of the race until ALL drivers still racing have crossed the line.

Password: see above
Driver lists can be found on the championship standings page

Handicapping and chassis allocation.
This season the 1955 Grand Prix cars will be using a token system which allows drivers to purchase any chassis of their choice for a given number of tokens as published on the championship standings page. Drivers classed as Amateurs will be allocated an additional 10 tokens.  The token allocation will not be managed in SRou this season so (unlike the 67F1 Works and 67F1 Privateer divisions) the tokens available to each driver will not appear in the championship table (when the mouse pointer is hovered over the driver's total).  Rather, the available tokens will be published in the race announcement. See table below.

Available Tokens:
Note: These are the tokens available to each driver before the 10 tokens are added for making the race start.

Driver   TokensStatus
bagrupp
15
Pro
Clive Loynes
8
Pro
Doni Yourth
30
Pro
EvilClive
21
Pro
fpolicardi
6
Am
francesco   
5
Am
Phil Thornton
10
Am
DLogan
8
Am
Gareth
10
Am
Jeep
7
Am
Uli   
6
Pro
FullMetalGasket
100
Pro
Will Tway
5
Pro
Baab
18
Am
Cookie
5
Pro
Samb
10
Pro
Ziu Bacubacu
5
Pro
« Last Edit: November 08, 2018, 04:55:52 PM +0000 by Cookie » Logged
FullMetalGasket
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« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2018, 05:08:13 PM +0100 »

Sorry guys, won't be here as I'll be at the 'Ring for a friends 40th.
Congrats to Clive ( Wink ) for the championship - now let's see if I can hold 3rd...
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« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2018, 09:05:38 PM +0100 »

LOL

Think you have 3rd on your virtual mantelpiece already.  Great result in the Gordini.

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EvilClive
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« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2018, 09:28:15 PM +0100 »

I was thinking that Tim is the real champion here.
To wring the neck of that little French car in qualifying to gain a good grid spot, whilst knowing that he will get swamped at the start because he has to run such a high ratio 1st gear. Then, to fight his way back through the field against more powerful cars thrashing the small engine and 4 gears......that definitely takes a certain kind of masochism.  Roll Eyes


Maybe we should club together to get him professionally assessed???  Huh

The Wazas might not be an active team at the moment, but all of Mrs Fujikawa's retired drivers still receive regular intelligence updates from her (still active) world wide network of informants  shifty. So here at Blue Moose, we know that there is a good chance that SBRC will be sending Mr Loynes out in the Merc at Silverstone and have equipped that car with a setup acquired from the current lap record holder.  It seems that there will be a fight to the wire Huh
« Last Edit: September 17, 2018, 09:43:27 PM +0100 by EvilClive » Logged

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Clive Loynes
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« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2018, 03:24:46 PM +0100 »


The Wazas might not be an active team at the moment, but all of Mrs Fujikawa's retired drivers still receive regular intelligence updates from her (still active) world wide network of informants  shifty. So here at Blue Moose, we know that there is a good chance that SBRC will be sending Mr Loynes out in the Merc at Silverstone and have equipped that car with a setup acquired from the current lap record holder.  It seems that there will be a fight to the wire Huh

LOL  When Sam sent that to the wrong Clive I expected you to change everything and helpfully forward it on to me!   Grin
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EvilClive
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« Reply #5 on: September 18, 2018, 04:52:14 PM +0100 »

How do you know that I didn't??  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2018, 09:41:21 PM +0100 »

Unlucky evening.Problem with Fairshift at first.I have choseen the Lancia but online i have found only 4 gears.Out of the online i have tested GEM in testing and the gears was correct.Anyway forced to choose the Vanwall with 4 gear but after the first lap the camshaft have abbadoned me.
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Clive Loynes
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« Reply #7 on: September 23, 2018, 10:27:25 PM +0100 »

Unlucky evening.Problem with Fairshift at first.I have choseen the Lancia but online i have found only 4 gears.Out of the online i have tested GEM in testing and the gears was correct.Anyway forced to choose the Vanwall with 4 gear but after the first lap the camshaft have abbadoned me.

Hard luck Fran.  You really must get that gear shift thing sorted.  It probably blew your engine too!
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Clive Loynes
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« Reply #8 on: September 23, 2018, 10:28:37 PM +0100 »

What happened to Uli?

Please tell me that Evil knocked him off and is looking at a four place penalty!   Roll Eyes
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francesco
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« Reply #9 on: September 24, 2018, 06:33:41 AM +0100 »

Quote
You really must get that gear shift thing sorted.
I think that was due to the random possibility.Is quite strange, in only one lap, to blow the engine for error.
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bagrupp
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« Reply #10 on: September 24, 2018, 09:12:06 AM +0100 »

Really liked to race but i had an Oktoberfest appointment.
Seems low attendance anyway. Should bei improving next season, hope there will be another 55 Season.
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Clive Loynes
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« Reply #11 on: September 24, 2018, 10:58:59 AM +0100 »

Congratulations to Evil on his '55 Title.  A worthy champion as he was always faster than me unless I had a considerable advantage with car selection.  But that Connought needs regrading to somewhere faster than the Lancia!

Uli managed to take pole from me in the last few minutes but I hooked up the start and was comfortably in front at Copse.
I put my head down and managed to pull a small gap and then waited to see what happened next.  Well, the pack thined themselves out a bit and Evil appeared as the car behind me with John chasing him.

Our times were quite close to begin with and Evil was obviously trying to close the gap.  I thought that that was quite brave of him really, as my only chance of the title was for him not to make it to half distance!  I seriously considered backing him into John but in the end decided that I didn't want my fate to be in the hands of the moderators, so I just kept going.  Roll Eyes

Once Evil had lost all vestage of a tow from me, things got easier and I was able to pull away a little, but never more than would have been accounted for by one good "off", so care was still needed.

Towards the end, I did a few laps with light brake usage and then nailed my fastest lap on the final tour.

I have really enjoyed the '55 season and hope that we shall see another and with a few more participants.  It is certainly a difficult challenge so full marks to Phil and Fran for hanging in there and congratulations to Phil on his amature title.
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EvilClive
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« Reply #12 on: September 24, 2018, 01:13:18 PM +0100 »

What happened to Uli?

Please tell me that Evil knocked him off and is looking at a four place penalty!   Roll Eyes

I sincerely hope not!!  Shocked  I did have a couple of banzai laps at the start to try and get back onto your tail Clive, but I think my passes were clean Wink. When I noticed that there were just 4 cars left running after 2 laps, the little red demon on my shoulder did begin to ask questions.

Grats to Clive Loynes on the win and to John who kept me on my toes for the whole of the race. Tough luck for Fulvio on the final laps.

Intelligence reports before the race had revealed that Clive would be using the Mighty Merc and that he had acquired a good setup to work with  Undecided I was under no illusion that he would be capable of getting into 1:43's. I also suspected that a few other drivers would opt for the Merc or the Lancia around such a fast circuit. The points table showed that I did not need to win the race to take home the silverware, but I could only afford to give Clive a  place or two advantage at the finish.
If I was up against 4 or 5 Lancias and Mercs could I afford to stick with my humble Connaught and risk getting swamped by faster car/driver combinations..... I confess that I seriously considered using a quicker car as I had the tokens available, but I loved the idea of dragging the Connaught to a final win, if possible.
I admit that I actually did some offline practice for this race and tried the Maserati 250F, which produced a 1:42 lap...should I use it??  Then I looked again at my Connaught setup and wondered where I could  squeeze some extra pace. The 4 speed gearbox compromised the exit from some corners so I pinched Tim's strategy that he used on the Gordini. I modified the gear ratios so that I could use 1st gear in some corners and I was able to gain some time. But this meant that actually getting the car off the grid became a big problem Embarrassed I also planned to slipstream the faster cars so I upped 4th gear too, which might have been a mistake.

At the start I was swamped by the fast cars and dropped to about 6th? with Clive away in front...not exactly part of the script I had planned  Undecided. The perfect game plan for me would be to get a tow rope onto the back of Clive's Merc and follow him home. From where I was, entering Copse on Lap 1, that looked like a forlorn hope. But a couple of demon overtakes took me up to 3rd and I was getting a tow from Uli. Clive was tantalisingly close but Uli was between us!! Then Uli ran wide and I would like to say that I "powered" through, but that does not happen in the Connaught  Undecided lol. I was able to urge the car through the gap would be a better description!
Clive had a 300mtr lead and I set about trying to catch his slipstream and gradually chipped away at his lead. I was living on the edge as I got within 100 mtrs and it was about then that the left rear tyre gave up and burst into flames  Shocked I had to back off and allow things to cool down or risk throwing the car into the scenery.

I imagine that Clive was wishing that I would make a mistake almost as much as I was willing him to run out of brakes  Roll Eyes. But the rest of the race was uneventful except for 2 laps from the end when I just ignored my braking marker and ran wide at Copse. I had maintained a gap back to John quite comfortably but suddenly I had a Lancia within 25mtrs of my rather overheated rear tyres!!  Shocked
Maybe I should have worked out all of the points permutations before the race, but all I was sure about was that if I finished 2nd and Clive won I would get my hands on the trophy,,,I was suddenly not so sure of what happened if I was demoted to 3rd!!
The last laps were a little desperate on my part as I threw that poor Connaught at the corners and wrestled with overheated rear tyres to keep John behind me, but somehow I was able to ease a small gap and retain 2nd  Grin

I have enjoyed racing these cars and the extra challenge of the vanishing brakes and early in the season I thought that Clive Loynes had planned a perfect run to the top. But somehow I hooked up a couple of good results and suddenly the battle was on. Sorry Clive to have denied you the silverware ( subject to moderation!!) but it was a fun championship either way...maybe next year I will take the Gordini?
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« Reply #13 on: September 25, 2018, 12:28:06 AM +0100 »

Decided at the last minute to give the 55's another chance. Discovered I had enough tokens for the Lancia so grabbed it and joined the server. Took the default set up, adjusted the brake bias and diff settings but other than that ran it as it came out of the box.

Qualified in 5th over 1.5s adrift of uli's pole time but was happy with the progress I had made during qualifying.

Got a great start and jumped both Cookie and Evil on the run down to T1. Managed to hang on for a few laps until Evil took advantage of the fact that I never managed to get the entry onto the Hanger straight quite right all race and was losing time all the way down to Stowe on every lap.

Tried in vain to hang onto the back of the front 2 but slowly lost ground until Evil made a mistake late in the race which put me right back with him, Unfortunately (for me) I had destroyed the brakes trying to stay in touch to the extent the only went yellow for any length of time time on the Hangar straight, being red with only the odd glimpse of yellow everywhere else. So finding myself back on his tail probably worried him more than it excited me as I knew I didn't have anything left in the locker to mount an attack. As it was he opened up a 2s gap in the final laps leavng me to claim the last of the podium spots due to Fran's problems.

So, glad to have given them another chance but they still don't grab me to the extent of say the 67's. I still feel the brake fade is a bit over agressive and the recovery takes a little too long. (But what do I know). Not sure I would rush to commit to another 55 season which is a shame because I really want to like them.

Great drives by Clive (And Clive). Congrats to Clive on the championship.

Thanks all it was a blast as usual.

TTFN
John.
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« Reply #14 on: September 25, 2018, 10:30:53 AM +0100 »

I wish you had told me that you had no brakes left John!! Maybe then I would not have panicked like I did at the end of the race.lol That sort of stress is not good for a person as old as me!!

I find the comments about the brake fade putting members off taking part in another series a little sad, because I find that dealing with the brakes actually makes these cars totally immersive.

FWIW my way of handling the brake fade in these cars .....

The Connaught is not great with the brakes, in fact I think that the Gordini is probably the only car that is worse? But, I find that I can outbrake other cars (which should not be possible) if i plan where I will do it maybe half a lap ahead?
First of all we have to accept that you cannot expect to brake as late or as hard as you would with the 67's. Also the narrow tyres do not provide as much grip, which can restrict both cornering speeds AND traction out of the corners.
We do not know if the physics that we have in these cars is anywhere near the reality of the 1955 era, but what we have, is what we have to deal with.

So, in order to get these cars into and out of corners as quickly as possible this is what I do ( at least I think this is what I do, because in the heat of battle things are a little instinctive and automatic).
Like all simracing ( and real life racing) it is EXIT speed from corners which is more valuable than ENTRY speed.
First of all, forget about the brakes.  Shocked. I set up the gearbox for each circuit so that I can use downshifts to scrub off speed at critical corners. It does require careful attention to the revs, so that you don't blow the engine by downshifting too soon. Then drive a lap without using the brakes, just the gearbox. Downshifting and coasting into the corners, so that you know where you have to back off to get through the corner when you have zero brakes left. Pick a trackside feature that gives you a safe deceleration point without brakes.....this will come in handy in the race  Wink

Next, I identify which corners will yield the most time if I use my brakes heavily and which corners I can use minimal or no brakes and still get through the corners. Ideally you will not expect to have 3 or 4 consecutive corners that require brakes. You might have to compromise at somewhere like Monaco, but don't worry about being slow at some parts because so will everyone else  Wink. Ideally you will have 2 heavy braking zones and between those 2 points there will be time for the brakes to recover.
The other trick I find is to be prepared to drift/slide/opp lock these cars. I'm not sure if what I think is happening is what is actually working but....
If I am really pushing hard I find that stabs on the brakes ( rather than long braking zones ) are better, and definitely get OFF the brakes before the corner and allow the chassis/diff to rotate freely into the apex. Even allow the tail to step out ( and this is where I might stir up some different views!) so that you can use the gas and some drive/push to force the front of the car towards the inside of the bend a little like a Rally car? The trick is to balance the gas/slide so that from the apex to the exit you can pour on whatever power you have ( not much in the Connaught!), or as much as the narrow tyres will take to exit the corner as fast as possible.
One or two of the more observant of you might have spotted the occasional wild slide with smoking tyres from yours truly.  Roll Eyes This is where ambition has exceeded ability/brakes/grip and is my "get out of jail" move. By throwing the car sideways I find that it is possible to scrub off speed very quickly, but it is not the optimum way through the corners!!

So a perfect lap at Silverstone for me in the Connaught is something like this..assuming we have already done several laps and tyres and brakes are at racing temp.
Across the S/F line accelerating hard in 3rd from Woodcote. 3rd gear will just red line before I need to slow for Copse ( sometimes I can get into 4th ). Off gas, heavy on dab brakes, Dshift to 2nd, Dab brakes twitch front end in to point car slightly too tight towards  that inside wall ( inertia will cause the car to drift wide and miss the wall, hopefully) Stay off the  brakes and use a little gas to balance the car until the car settles, and then ease on the gas as you pass the apex minimising wheelspin ( which will overheat the rear tyres).
Max revs in 2nd, up to 3rd max revs and take Maggots ( no brakes) up shift at apex to 4th full gas and get back to left hand side for Becketts.
Slow early for Becketts for a controlled entry, the brakes are probably still red from Copse!!! The exit here is critical, as it dictates your velocity all the way down Hangar straight. I take a very tight line here....don't know why but it suits me??  Undecided

Dab brakes down through gearbox to 1st gear ( remember I was running a very high 1st gear ratio) to reduce speed. Once entry to Becketts is sorted get on the power and force as much as possible through those tyres on the exit. 2nd gear max revs which will take you to Chapel. Upshift to 3rd just before apex NO BRAKES or lifting, the upshift should have caused the nose to turn in slightly and allow you to power through in a 4 wheel drift. max revs in 3rd, upshift to 4th. Check brake colour on the straight, it should be yellow/green before that wall on the left.
If it is yellow as I am passing the wall I must back off and dab brakes at the end of the wall , if i have green I can risk another 10-20 mtrs before braking/downshifting to 2nd for Stowe. Use all the brakes available here.
Stowe is another critical corner. a smooth entry carrying as much speed as possible. Ideally a smooth 4 wheel drift with the front nearside wheel just missing the inside wall and a little opp lock, which allows me to balance the car on the gas as I accelerate out towards Club. Up into 3rd and possibly snatch 4th before braking.
The braking for Stowe has probably put the brakes into the red and they are not going to recover before Club, so this is where 1st gear is used again to scrub off speed. If brakes are red I back off at the group of people on the left. Use any braking that is available and down to 1st, cutting the apex a little with 2 wheels across the grass  Roll Eyes. Wait until all 4 wheels are back on tarmac before nailing the gas, otherwise there could be an embarrassing spin onto the infield. Roll Eyes
Hard acceleration in 1st, and 2nd up Farm Straight towards Abbey, which I take flat in 3rd gear, up to red line and snatch 4th going towards Woodcote. The secret here is not to use the brakes at all, I want all the braking I can muster for Copse. but I find this a difficult corner to get absolutely right because there is no definitive apex. D/shift to 3rd early and allow the car to coast towards the inside line and once the car is settled I apply power to provoke a slight drift. This allows me to exit Woodcote on full power across the line, and if I get it perfect, I might take 4th as we pass under the bridge, Hopefully brakes are back to green before heavy stabs on the brakes for Copse again.

For me driving like this, the brakes are OK and are predictably good/bad at the same points on each lap so I know what to expect. Even so, I still regularly check the light on the dashboard on each straight so that there are no surprises at the next corner!! Initially i found that the brakes never recovered at any point on a lap with the 55's. Then I made a conscious effort to watch what I was doing and I found that I had got into the habit of dabbling my foot on the brake pedal all the way through corners as I tried to balance the car against the gas. This was no problem in all the other mods, but was a really big problem in the 55's!! Now I am very positive about being ON or OFF the brakes and ensure that I only use them when and where I have to.
 A bigger problem now is the outside rear tyre if I overdo the drifting/opp lock, and I find that I might have to ease back for the occasional lap to cool the tyres.
The cars with 5 speed gearboxes are a little easier because of the extra ratios, but I use them in much the same way.

This may or may not help some of you. I think the 55's are just great fun to drive and once you get your head around the fact that they are different and require a slightly different approach there is some great racing to be had. You cannot expect to have max brakes at every corner but neither can anyone else, so decide where you want to have brakes and where you will back off early to allow them to recover and things will work out.

OK lecture over, now you can pull my ideas apart. Wink
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