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  • UKGTL S1-ish R4 Donington Nat: May 25, 2006
May 25, 2006, 09:12:35 PM +0100 - Donington Park (National) - UKGTL Season 1ish
Driver
 Team
Nat. Make Model Class Qualifying Race
Tyres Pos Time/Gap Pos Time/Gap Laps Stops Best Retirement
reason
Ballast
Jeffrey
 Team Shark
Alfa Romeo GTA (#958) TC-65 D2 1 1:22.827
86.081mph
1 40:01.068
83.144mph
28 1:22.896
86.009mph
Dunlop  
Pero_Grozni
 RS Motorsport
Alfa Romeo GTA (#907) TC-65 D2 2 +0.261
85.810mph
2 +0.087
83.141mph
28 1:22.777
86.133mph
Dunlop  
Zacari
 Team Shark
Alfa Romeo GTA (#922) TC-65 D2 3 +1.350
84.700mph
3 +36.542
81.898mph
28 1:24.053
84.825mph
Dunlop  
Dan Minton
 Team RVS
Alfa Romeo GTA (#922) TC-65 D2 4 +1.409
84.641mph
4 +40.349
81.770mph
28 1:24.421
84.455mph
Dunlop  
Madd-RIP
 
Lotus Cortina (#904) TC-65 D2 5 +1.492
84.558mph
5 +48.020
81.514mph
28 1:24.519
84.357mph
Dunlop  
pribeiro
 
Lotus Cortina (#901) TC-65 D2 6 +1.500
84.549mph
6 +50.770
81.422mph
28 1:24.523
84.353mph
Dunlop  
Simon Gymer
 Team Shark
Lotus Cortina (#955) TC-65 D2 7 +1.562
84.487mph
7 +51.087
81.412mph
28 1:24.633
84.244mph
Dunlop  
greg130
 28CD Motorsports
Alfa Romeo GTA (#956) TC-65 D2 8 +1.780
84.270mph
8 +1:01.766
81.059mph
28 1:24.907
83.972mph
Dunlop  
EdamSpeed
 
Alfa Romeo GTA (#958) TC-65 D2 16 +2.830
83.237mph
9 +1:04.797
80.959mph
28 1:24.960
83.920mph
Dunlop  
Dave 'Gizmo' Gymer
 Team Shark
Lotus Cortina (#904) TC-65 D2 14 +2.673
83.390mph
10 +1:12.240
80.716mph
28 1:24.979
83.901mph
Dunlop  
JonM_uk
 Ze insane Penguins
Lotus Cortina (#961) TC-65 D2 11 +2.025
84.026mph
11 +1:15.204
80.619mph
28 1:24.774
84.104mph
Dunlop  
ASSASSINO
 Ghostspeed
Alfa Romeo GTA (#922) TC-65 D2 9 +1.799
84.251mph
12 +1L
79.818mph
27 1:24.952
83.927mph
Dunlop  
TinMan
 Team Oldie Racing
Lotus Cortina (#911) TC-65 D2 20 +3.278
82.804mph
13 +7.513
79.570mph
27 1:26.159
82.752mph
Dunlop  
Don
 Legends Racing
Alfa Romeo GTA (#922) TC-65 D2 13 +2.647
83.415mph
14 +14.669
79.335mph
27 1:25.682
83.212mph
Dunlop  
Eddie Meyer
 Kerb Crawlers
Alfa Romeo GTA (#922) TC-65 D2 18 +2.868
83.200mph
15 (+2) +32.648
78.752mph
27 1:25.866
83.034mph
Dunlop  
will16v
 
Alfa Romeo GTA (#907) TC-65 D2 23 +5.127
81.063mph
16 +1:07.001
77.660mph
27 1:27.070
81.886mph
Dunlop  
Jamera
 28CD Motorsports
Alfa Romeo GTA (#922) TC-65 D2 22 +4.076
82.043mph
17 +2L
76.681mph
26 1:27.063
81.892mph
Dunlop  
whitham69
 Team Shark
Lotus Cortina (#924) TC-65 D2 21 +3.508
82.583mph
18 (+3) +13.398
76.258mph
26 1:25.327
83.559mph
Dunlop  
JohnnyDee
 Ghostspeed
Alfa Romeo GTA (#922) TC-65 D2 12 +2.634
83.428mph
19 +17L 11 1:25.431
83.457mph
unknown
Dunlop  
popabawa
 Legends Racing
Lotus Cortina (#924) TC-65 D2 19 +3.233
82.847mph
20 +18L 10 1:26.481
82.444mph
unknown
Dunlop  
Bernie Lomax
 Ze insane Penguins
Alfa Romeo GTA (#956) TC-65 D2 15 +2.678
83.385mph
21 +21L 7 1:25.899
83.002mph
suspension
Dunlop  
ginsters sponsored
 Kerb Crawlers
Lotus Cortina (#961) TC-65 D2 17 +2.838
83.229mph
22 +25L 3 1:28.989
80.120mph
unknown
Dunlop  
locutos ukgtr
 28CD Motorsports
Alfa Romeo GTA (#956) TC-65 D2 10 +1.830
84.220mph
+28L 0 1:24.970
83.910mph
DQ
Dunlop  

Moderator's Report

Complaint made that gaps in the field are opening up during warm up lap, specific complaint made by Johnny Dee that "JonM opens a huge gap to the leaders" at the chicane before the start finish straight. In my opinion JonM has not deliberately opened up a gap and its certainly not a huge gap. He is doing his best to maintain station. Looking at the replay, the gaps do seem to increase as you look further down the order, however, I think this is caused more by the cautious attitude of drivers slowing down to enter the final turn whilst the cars in front have/are accelerating slowly back to warm up pace.


Server replay time: 209s

JohnnyDee states that going into the Old Hairpin, JonM brakes too soon, "the replay shows that I keep the leaders' pace but he drops back". JohnnyDee locks the brakes going into the turn, then accelerates to fast on exit causing the back to step out.
This is the first hot lap of the race, many drivers will be a little cautious of cold tyres and brakes on the first couple of laps and will brake earlier than normal, JohnnyDee should have been aware of this, as to the repaly showing he keeps to the leaders pace....Johnny is in 11th place, the only cars he should be concerned with are the ones immediately in front of him, his driving into the Old Hairpin was too aggressive causing him to lock the front under braking and his off track excurssion is caused by over eager use of the accelerator causing the back to step out. None of these incidents are the fault of JonM.

  • Racing incident


Server replay time: 263s

Dave Gymer and JonM are racing down the back straight, Dave has pulled out in an obvious attempt to pass Jon under braking into the chicane. Dave realises that Edam Speed is coming in fast at the chicane and pulls back onto the racing line to avoid being rear ended.

Edam Speed makes an excellent late brake into the chicane and passes Bernie Lomax and Dave Gymer, it was a well controlled pass and no contact is made. What worried me about this manouevre is that if Dave hadn't seen Edam coming in fast and moved back to the racing line there would without doubt been an accident here. Edam had a clear view and could see Dave G was on his line and should take that into account before contemplating such a move. The next time may not see such consideration from the driver in front. All said and done though, it was a cracking move Edam.

  • EdamSpeedcaution — A litle more consideration and awareness please.


Server replay time: 264s

Approaching the final chicane, Bernie Lomax slows to avoid contact with Dave Gymer who has moved back onto the racing line to avoid being hit by Edam Speed. JohnnyDee is already braking hard and cannot avoid tapping Bernie.

  • Racing incident


Server replay time: 266s

Eddie Myer approaches the chicane and attempts to take advantage of the slower cars in front, he locks the front on turn in, takes a substantial cut across the first part of the chicane and hits JohnnyDee. He then leaves no room at all for JohnnyDee through the left had turn of the chicane resulting in further impact and loss of places to both drivers.

  • Eddie Meyerpenalty — Poor passing manouevre — 2 places lost


Server replay time: 285s

Whitham69 gets a good run down the S/F straight on JohnnyDee but unfortunately has a slight loss of control under braking for Redgate, this causes him to swerve slighlty left before regaing control and side impacting JohnnyDee. This causes Johnny to be pushed out left and in getting the car back under control Johnny turns right more acutely than he would normally and side impacts Jamera. Jamera who had a good view of what was happening had back off going into Redgate and was more the innocent bystander.

  • whitham69penalty — Loss of control resulting in side collision — 2 places lost (plus 1 for penalty points)


Server replay time: 302s

Jamera takes a wider and slower line into the Craner Curves allowing JohnnyDee to gain rapidly on him. As they go through the fast left Jamera contines to turn in towards the racing line with Johnny moving inside, Johnny makes no allowance for this but continues at full throttle through the turn knowing full well the car ahead is turning in and his own speed and momentum through the turn will cause him to drift out. Side contact is inevitable.

  • JohnnyDee ([GS]JohnnyDee)penalty — Over aggressive manouevre resulting in side impact — 2 places lost
    For advice only - unreported by victim, so penalty disregarded


Server replay time: 316s

Don goes wide at the Old Hairpin allowing Edam Speed to close the gap heading towards Schwantz curve. As they approach McLeans Edam has the inside line, but hes a little too fast and slides into Don. Fortunately Don holds it together but at the cost of a position.

  • EdamSpeedpenalty — Side impact — 2 places lost
    For advice only - unreported by victim, so penalty disregarded


Server replay time: 320s

JohnnyDee gets inside Whitham69 going into McLeans with Jamera following behind. JohnnyDee doesnt get the acceleration coming off the corner due to his tighter line, Jamera gets a good run through the turn then realises JohnnyDee is picking up speed, you can clearly hear Jamera come off the gas. Unfortunately Jamera doesnt slow quickly enough and taps Johnny's rear. Both cars continue without loss of position.

  • Racing incident


Server replay time: 372s

Bernie Lomax loses the rear entering Redgate spinning the car round. Sponsored By Gingsters is unsighted due to Popabawa and is making an attempted pass on Tom Cooper round the outside down the S/F straight. Gingsters did not see Bernie until he turned and with Tom inside him has litlle time to react. Gingsters hits Bernie throwing Gingsters car into the path of JohnnyDee who hits him quite hard. This forces Gingsters to retire.

  • Racing incident


Server replay time: 510s

Eddie Myer goes through McLeans, on accelerating out he gets a slight rear slide. JohnnyDee has followed Eddie through the turn cleanly, Johnny comes off the gas but really has little chance to react and taps Eddies rear.

  • Racing incident


Server replay time: 667s

Eddie Meyer goes wide at the Old Hairpin and JohnnyDee makes a good pass down the inside. As Eddie wrestles the car off the rumble strip and back to the track there is side contact between them.

  • Racing incident


Server replay time: 1142s

JohnnyDee and Whitham69 are heading towards the final chicane, Johnny brakes far to late and goes straight on into the tyre wall and had to retire. I would not have normally have moderated this report, letting it go as a non accident as no one but Johnny was involved. However, Johnnys late braking could have so nearly taken Whitham out as well. I hope Johnnys close self examination of his drive at Donnington and subsequent reports has highlighted that his sometimes aggressive driving style can be dangerous. Johnny also displayed some excellent driving skills and I hope he takes some valueable lessons away from this and so improve on those skills.

  • Racing incident

SimRacing.org.uk Lap Records
GT Legends
TC-65 D2
1:22.827
86.081mph
Jeffrey
Qualifying
Alfa Romeo GTAMay 25, 2006, 09:12:35 PM +0100
L1
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Author Topic: UKGTL - Season 1-ish, Round 4, Donington National - May 25th  (Read 16536 times)
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[ZiP]Tyf
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« Reply #45 on: May 26, 2006, 11:40:25 AM +0100 »

...stuff that is mentioned in the rules somewhere as X... Huh

It's rapidshare stuff, but I'm waiting for Tyf to give me permission to upload this big video on his FTP. Don't know how much space he has left, but I will only leave it up there for a short time, because it's at rapidshare now forever. So may I, may I, may I Tyf, pleeeeease Kiss

Space is going to fill up quickly m8. That's why 100MB vids of a pwetty short race are not really useful. And the whole idea of having some FTP space imo is that we'll be able to keep these files hosted for a long time. Really annoying when u read an old thread and every1 is excited about the video and u can't d/l it anymore, hehe! Vid map is 300MB now, which is fine, buttah...die-hard fans can get it from Rapid Wink.

Cool

T
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Dave 'Gizmo' Gymer
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« Reply #46 on: May 26, 2006, 01:22:30 PM +0100 »

Is it not possible to put the videos on http://www.youtube.com/ or similar?
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TinMan
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« Reply #47 on: May 26, 2006, 01:41:21 PM +0100 »

Just downloaded THE VIDEO. Great work Rus, and congrats to you and Pero for providing some great entertainment
Had a good clean dice with Popa at the back of the field - thanks Pop - you made an old man very happy when you went off, lol.

On the subject of slower drivers, I don't think that anyone INTENTIONALLY gets in anyone's way - we're just doing our incompetent best! When Rus and Pero came past me I would rather have DNF'd than impeded them(they were awesome to watch at close quarters)

I think that we are all guilty at times of the mindset that says "when I make an error it's genuinely accidental, but when anyone else makes one it's because he's a bloody idiot"

It's still a great racing league and a pleasure to race with(at the back of) all of you.

TC
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Jeffrey
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« Reply #48 on: May 26, 2006, 02:23:49 PM +0100 »

Here is the race video, without Peter and me Cheesy. Were some really close racing at some points, so I had to select the scenes, or else there would be another 10 minute video. Because of this there are hardly any shots taken from the back of the grid. So next time, when you want airtime, PM me about good action Wink.

40MB, 5 minutes

VIDEO

Donations are welcome Wink
« Last Edit: May 26, 2006, 02:33:18 PM +0100 by Ruskus » Logged
popabawa
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« Reply #49 on: May 26, 2006, 02:42:14 PM +0100 »

Had a good clean dice with Popa at the back of the field - thanks Pop - you made an old man very happy when you went off, lol.

Heheh! Glad to be of service!
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JonM_uk
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« Reply #50 on: May 26, 2006, 02:59:10 PM +0100 »

Nice Vid once again Ruskus Cool
On the subject of the starts I always try too leave a bit of room because everytime I've been close up to someone on the warm up lap I always seem to end up swerving to avoid a contact and I really don't want to K.O. somebody on the warmup lap and into any turn 1 on the first green lap I try my best to brake early because If I don't no doubt the person in front will and it's too late to wished I'd braked that bit sooner. If I brake early....Go past Tongue
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Jeffrey
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« Reply #51 on: May 26, 2006, 03:31:38 PM +0100 »

Nice Vid once again Ruskus Cool
On the subject of the starts I always try too leave a bit of room because everytime I've been close up to someone on the warm up lap I always seem to end up swerving to avoid a contact and I really don't want to K.O. somebody on the warmup lap and into any turn 1 on the first green lap I try my best to brake early because If I don't no doubt the person in front will and it's too late to wished I'd braked that bit sooner. If I brake early....Go past Tongue

Thanks.

If everybody keep a steady pace, there is no reason to swerve to avoid contact. Will going 80km/h you can warm your brakes ad tires just as easily as when driving like a mental patient.
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Madd-RIP
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« Reply #52 on: May 26, 2006, 03:42:40 PM +0100 »

 Grin nice vid Rus!! I could see shark's and Ribeiro's race nicely in my rear view mirror, looked a right old ding dong!
« Last Edit: May 26, 2006, 03:46:02 PM +0100 by Madd-RIP » Logged


JohnnyDee
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« Reply #53 on: May 26, 2006, 06:50:15 PM +0100 »

More detail on Qualifying: As I was starting laps (coming off non-hotlaps) with people in front of me I would be sure to leave plenty of room, as usual, so I could keep my fast pace without worrying about catching up.  Two times with more than enough room at the start, by the end of a good lap I had caught this person whose grid time was not all that different from mine so obviously this was not a hotlap for him, but he did not yield and so my hotlap was ruined as well.  Another time he was on an outlap and did not obey the blue flag.  One time after I came back on from a mistake (sorry to the fast guy coming behind me whom I couldn't see!) I saw this person, also on a non-hotlap, block one of our esteemed championship leaders who returned to the pits with <ESC> at the end of the lap rather than continue with a ruined lap.  Of course there are reasons for this to occur: no mirrors or the "you joined while I was on track so I can't see you" problem (which I know is not the case here).  But in general, for me at least, blocking faster cars during qualifying is a no-no -- most especially if my lap is not good -- and I have completed my own hotlaps even while allowing others to pass safely.

BTW: It is possible to save a replay of qualifying by leaving the event, but of course someone must sacrifice a qualifying position and risk not making it back in time to join the race.  Also: if you get a really good PB time in qualifying, leave the event to save it, otherwise it will not get into your Career.blt file when the session changes (another bug...).  Obviously, don't leave the event if it's an important qualifying position or when you might not be able to get back into the server (full pubby races).

More detail on starts: I like rolling starts!  I saw a replay of a super cool, double grid rolling start in an rFactor league race that just blew my mind it was so coordinated and fast.  But every one I've been in here so far has had massive confusion caused by large gaps opening up.  When I see a gap like that, my concentration is full on catching back up so if someone ahead of me does NOT have that same goal then we are at odds and much more likely to have an incident.  In fact, I contacted someone in my very first rolling start for that very reason: he took off, I thought with intent to catch the escaping pack, only to slam on his brakes a few seconds later before we had caught up and not in a braking zone.  And with a gap just at the starting line, am I now in a race-to-cross-the-line-faster-but-not-first situation??  Technically I believe that's not how the rules spell it out.  It's all very confusing when that happens.  If a nice, steady gap and pace are maintained then the following cars may concentrate on tire/brake warming without needing to worry about keeping up.  Gap == BAD, keeping up == GOOD.  Many gaps == ruined start.  Basically, do what the cars in front of you do.  After the start, especially in a long race, if you can't keep up at least get out of the way so others may have a chance.  Holding back faster cars at the start of a long race is like punishment as those vital seconds are multiplied by race length.  I always feel bad if I hold back truly faster drivers.

More detail on contact: I do not believe anyone here was being overly aggressive as we have seen in other league races -- even had a blatant wrecking incident in one, if you can believe that in a league race!  But I seem to have encountered a large amount of contact issues in the race yesterday, probably just a long run of bad luck all wrapped into a few laps.  There are a few more controversial incidents, though, which I have duly forwarded to our moderator.

     -=> J <=-
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Zacari
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« Reply #54 on: May 26, 2006, 07:19:34 PM +0100 »

if you get a really good PB time in qualifying, leave the event to save it, otherwise it will not get into your Career.blt file when the session changes (another bug...)

I've never done this, even if (like last night) I did get a PB.  Just get the qualifying time from the results upload and manually edit the career.blt file, nothing wrong with doing that!

Noone should be accelerating out of the last corner to catch up a gap.  The leader keeps the same pace from the last corner to the s/f line and everyone behind should do the same!

Not that there was anything wrong with the speed of the start yesterday, but I tend to slow to a crawl near the end of the lap to make sure of a bunched field in the same way I would if slowing for a standing start after a formation lap.  Tyer temps don't get raised enough to worry about weaving about (and in any case excessive weaving is against the formation lap rules) and as Ruskus said, brakes can be warmed by dragging the brake pedal whilst accelerating (unless you've not got split-axis pedals, in which case your stuck Tongue)
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JohnnyDee
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« Reply #55 on: May 26, 2006, 11:31:47 PM +0100 »

if you get a really good PB time in qualifying, leave the event to save it, otherwise it will not get into your Career.blt file when the session changes (another bug...)

I've never done this, even if (like last night) I did get a PB.  Just get the qualifying time from the results upload and manually edit the career.blt file, nothing wrong with doing that!

Sure, when it's available.  Most pubby races no one uploads anything anywhere.  And the results files don't autosave.  Sad

     -=> J <=-
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JohnnyDee
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« Reply #56 on: May 26, 2006, 11:34:31 PM +0100 »

Noone should be accelerating out of the last corner to catch up a gap.  The leader keeps the same pace from the last corner to the s/f line and everyone behind should do the same!

That's what I've been trying to say all along.  So far, both races, it's been the same thing though.  It's really very much more important to keep up with the guy in front of you than anything else on the formation lap.  <sigh>

     -=> J <=-
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Zacari
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« Reply #57 on: May 27, 2006, 12:53:44 AM +0100 »

if you get a really good PB time in qualifying, leave the event to save it, otherwise it will not get into your Career.blt file when the session changes (another bug...)

I've never done this, even if (like last night) I did get a PB.  Just get the qualifying time from the results upload and manually edit the career.blt file, nothing wrong with doing that!

Sure, when it's available.  Most pubby races no one uploads anything anywhere.  And the results files don't autosave.  Sad

     -=> J <=-

 Shocked Shocked Shocked public servers?!  I see the problem lol.  But noting the time down on paper would do too Wink  Hopefully it'll be fixed in GTR2 at least, (as well as showing what driver aids are on for any recorded laps!)
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Dave 'Gizmo' Gymer
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« Reply #58 on: May 27, 2006, 09:05:05 AM +0100 »

Sure, when it's available.  Most pubby races no one uploads anything anywhere.  And the results files don't autosave.  Sad

If you set Extra Stats="1" in you .PLR file you should always get a results file at the end of each session...
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JohnnyDee
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« Reply #59 on: May 27, 2006, 06:11:11 PM +0100 »

Sure, when it's available.  Most pubby races no one uploads anything anywhere.  And the results files don't autosave.  Sad

If you set Extra Stats="1" in you .PLR file you should always get a results file at the end of each session...

I know about that setting but I did not realize it also adds a timestamp to the filename!  Very kewl.  Thanks!

     -=> J <=-
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