AC cars for racing

[Mark J]

Rather than keep filling up the TCR thread with off topic chat, I've started this thread for car suggestions  

I tested a few this eve:-  benchmark test was 15 cars - race session - Nurburg GP sprint track.

Porsche rs60 :- cool little 1960 sports car. Could probably have some fun races on the right tracks, but prob not worthy of a series. Great view with a rift.

Toyota ae86 :- like the 80's? Dynamics and cockpit view but pretty slow. Felt like 2 minutes to do a main straight  

Cobra race car:- these make me grin, fab open cockpits and v8 sounds. A grid full of these looks spectacular. Would people find them too hard to race with? Be great at riverside and other period tracks.

Lotus exige v6cup:- nice analogue sports car well suited to a spec series.

Lotus Evora gtc - cool group 4 car, this could make a great race series, good pace and handling and more race able/drive able for a spread of talent for close racing.

Will keep trying individual cars and report here. Feel free to put suggestions here or test results  

Known great cars for spec racing:-
Porsche RSR 3.0
Porsche cup modern
Porsche 962
Lotus 25
TCR
Bmw E30

[Fabri Fibra]

This is a good topic Mark, good for have an idea about cars and interest by players.
In fact I was about to comment on the topic of the TCR series, but having another one is better.

I had several races on public servers in these years, so I've accumulated a decent experience as well as having a great passion for historic cars.
I will try to summarize the cars you mention, of course these are my personal opinions.

-Alfa GTA is a slow car, funny to drive and can do close battles. But I personally don't like her.
-Ford Escort is like her.
-Porsche 718 RS60 is more interesting to drive, a beauty in design, but for my experiences, in races can be great gaps (maybe setup is really importat, specially the gear-box). The previous 550 was one of best car in design of all time.
-Cobra is one of hardest car to drive (also going slow for stay on track). Terrible and hard.
-Maserati 250F (6c of course): we are entering in the F1 world. Nice car, the previus F1 generation of Lotus 25, but with a different handling. Combined with historical circuits it could be epic.
-Lotus 72: not so hard to drive, like said by Stefan, but not really easy if you are on the edge (only style for go really fast). The 312T is close in lap-times. Also here, with correct tracks can be a great championship.
-Prototypes '70: we just tested them in a race and they are not even. For do something just choise one of them. There is also a Can-am car in AC, the Porsche 917/30, a beast absolutely not easy.

In my opinion most interesting car is the Lotus 49. Someone did a sim. with these cars, 20 years ago.

-About more modern stuff, I support the Toyota AE86.

There are also good old super cars, like Lambos, Ferraris, etc; good for some one-day-event.

NB: Mark, we did the championship with Lotus 25 (not 49 like you wrote).

[Jeffrey]

Going through the AC car list (Not raced all of them):

Abarth: The fastest modern Abarths give close racing with the trade off of being a tad boring to drive, but I think it will give similar racing to TCR.

Alfa Romeo: GTA for TCR like racing in a classic sauce. I haven't tried the 4C, but could it give similar racing to the 599?
The 155 Ti V6 is a solid car.

Audi: Nothing appeals to me here.

BMW: There are some fun road cars here (without TC and ABS) and the E30 is like the 155 a decent car.

Chevrolet: Nothing special

Classic Lotus: Fun cars to drive, but fairly high skill cap, so I expect large speed differences.

Ferrari: Nothing interesting, maybe the 312.

Ford: Escort sucks and the Gt40 is very niche, most probably won't like the heavy feel. Mustang is maybe fun without electronic aids, but I haven't tried it.

KTM: Can burn in a fire.

Lamborghini: Nothing

Lotus: Boring cars, but seems like many people like them. I only like the Exos 125 standard.

Maserati: I think the GT4 was decent, rest is nothing for me.

Mazda: RX7 tuned is fun, but I think I am very lone on that one. The 787 is a no brainer and great fun.

McLaren: All talk, no walk.

Mercedes: 190 is like the 155 and E30. C9 is less fun than the 787 and I like the SLS and AMG cars.

Nissan: The GTR was decent fun, but not really worth a series. Rest of the cars are kinda similar.

Pagani: Cars we have never used and I think one of them should be fun. I tried them and I can remember liking atleast 1 of them. Great sound and thrilling to drive, reminded me a bit of the 599.

Porsche: 911 GT1 and 917 are the ones that appeal to me the most. Rest have already been used or are boring.

Praga: Radical-ish. Was pretty fun, but not really exciting.

RUF: Hard handling beetles.

Glickenhaus: Used.

Cobra: Horrible handling and huge skill gap.

Taatus: Boring open wheeler, but that will probably give close racing. Downside of open wheelers, million of setup options.

Toyota: The AE86 is fun-ish and the Supra is also pretty fun.

[FullMetalGasket]

I agree with everything Fabri wrote about the classics (except I love the Cobra and GTA :p ).
I remember that one variant of the Lancia Fulvia is supposed to be tuned for racing against the GTA, there's also a really nice Honda S800 available but I'm not sure how that compares.
Are the DTM cars that seperate in lap times? I'd have thought we could have raced them? Maybe we hold some test races and then assign chassis based on driver speed like we did in GPL for many years with great success - as long as I'm in a 190E I'm happy

As much as I disliked the glickenhaus SCG 003 series Jeffery ran, I really love the P4/5 - and it has the added advantage of relatively few setup options and a cracking soundtrack (last race in any series would have to be at the ring of course).

The Mk4 MX5 cup is guaranteed to give great racing, it will also be an easy enough car to drive that anyone would feel happy to jump in one.

We also have the cayman GT4, although I've not driven it much yet - but should provide Similar fun to the 911 cups.

I would possibly suggest the tuned AE86's, otherwise any circuit with a big straight would be pretty painful.

On the mod front I'm still a massive fan of the formula easter cars,  as they're just slightly faster and easier single seaters than the Lotus 25 - and much simpler to boot. I've done loads of laps in each one at bikerniki and they're all within tenths of each other baring the Avia AE2 which should be limited to slower drivers only. The fast guys would walk it in those.

There's also a cracking Suzuka Alto cup available, but I can't see you going for a 3 cylinder championship due to horsepower prejudice

[picnic]

there's also a really nice Honda S800 available

On RaceDepartment or elsewhere? I have a friend who's restoring one, he'd enjoy a go in that.

[Mark J]

The 3 dtm cars aren’t evenly matched I think, as been discussed in the past.
I forgot what a good car the e30 beemer was. I ran a series a few years ago using them and it was quite popular at the time and was a hoot to race. Added it to the ‘proven’ list and corrected Lotus 25 (thanks Fabri). Have considered stepping up one to the lotus 49 for a series in the near future. L72 and 312 might only attract small numbers due to the pace/setup complexity, albeit I love both cars.

Cayman gt4 would make another good spec series.

Like Jeff I also thought Alfa gta would be a good ‘classic tcr’ series.

Got the old school mustang mod for a one off race too. Liked them.

I’ll get round to trying each suggestion so keep them coming 

[FullMetalGasket]

there's also a really nice Honda S800 available

On RaceDepartment or elsewhere? I have a friend who's restoring one, he'd enjoy a go in that.

Pretty sure it's on RD

[Fabri Fibra]

Added it to the ‘proven’ list and corrected Lotus 25 (thanks Fabri). Have considered stepping up one to the lotus 49 for a series in the near future. L72 and 312 might only attract small numbers due to the pace/setup complexity, albeit I love both cars.

Do not underestimate the difficulty in setting for the "49". Sensitive car also in the setup and of course in driving.
72D and 312T are maybe, paradoxically, less hard to setup. They are also more friendly when you are below edge.

I'm thinking also about cars and tracks contest. '60s tracks (and earlier) were more dangerous, the challenge for the pilot was to get to the finish line, pushing near his 100%, but not beyond. In my opinion this is really interesting and adrenalinic.
In the following decade there was an evolution of the tracks, which lost a bit the "street/road spirit" and speed focus, becoming "real tracks" (as we know them today). Maybe the Ring was the last old style track, no longer used since '77 in F1.

-There are some interesting old Lambos, like Miura or Countach.
-Same for Ferrari 288 GTO. The F40 is instead "terrible and hard".

Talking about DTM '90, I did a championship with them some years ago with some italians guys. Cars are not even. Alfa is faster, Mercedes non so far but BMW is slower. In real life, there was not the M3 E36 against the 155v6? Maybe I remember wrong.

For slow cars, funny to drive and good for close battles, i suggest Caterhams, there is a good mod with them.
And they are perfect for "The Spirit of British Racing"     

[Manteos]

The 3 dtm cars aren’t evenly matched I think, as been discussed in the past.
I forgot what a good car the e30 beemer was. I ran a series a few years ago using them and it was quite popular at the time and was a hoot to race.

The BMW and the Mercedes are pretty well matched on their laptimes, the Alfa is slightly quicker than both the cars. Nothing prevent you to use my old proposal to make a championship with two or three phases of 3 races per phase in which you must change your car every race. We did a champ like this in 2016 with the DTM in VDA and it was amazing. Close fights and laptimes in every race, with the chance for the slightly slower people in the Alfas to fight with the fastest guys on BMW and Mercs.
Or you can end up in running another series with another bugged car like the TCR, in which you have to put the brake bias at 90% on front to avoid a rear lock of the tyres. Worse car I ever tried on AC along with the car used in the other series, the V8 supercars, that is another totally bugged and unuseful mod.
You have a lot of original content that you never used on AC, included road cars, and you are racing with the worse bugged mods ever made on AC.
That's why I'm not racing with AC here anymore.

[Mark J]

Here is the tale of the tape on the 3 DTM cars:-

Alfa 155
1050kg
420 bhp
294 Nm torque

BMW e30 dtm
945kg
350bhp
310Nm

Merc E90
980kg
370bhp
310Nm

I had a lot of fun in a test race with all 3 cars in a 15 car grid and they seemed fairly even in a race. But you can see from the figures why the Alfa has the grunt advantage despite being the heaviest. If you applied a bit of air restrictor to it and less so to the merc you could equalise them. Or make the fastest drivers take the BMW.

[Mark J]

Tried some more great cars today, having a lot of fun trying all these cars out  some I hadn't even tried yet 

Alfa 4C - not bad but laggy paddle shift. Could probably have a decent race with them but not a series.

Alfa tipo33 - love this feisty little car, ace sounds and handling, would make a great spec series. A grid of them is great fun and can be raced closely.

Alfa Gta - again, got to say a grid of them is great fun, looks amazing and would provide close racing.

Alfa 155 - good car, fun to race, could be used in one off or a series.

Ferrari 312/67 - cool 60's f1 car, seemed nicely matched with the Lotus 49 in my test race. Controllable slides and not too much of a handful. Would make a good spec series or fight the L49
312/67 - 548kg,390bhp, 350Nm.  V L49 - 575kg,410bhp,350Nm

Ferrari 330P - love this raucous race car. Ace sounds and good handling, would again make a great spec series car.

Maserati 250f - I like these, great old race car that moves about nicely, could have some fun races with this but lack of good period tracks, but still fun at modern circuits.

No shortage of great untapped content that's for sure 

[Fabri Fibra]

Ferrari 312/67 - cool 60's f1 car, seemed nicely matched with the Lotus 49 in my test race. Controllable slides and not too much of a handful. Would make a good spec series or fight the L49
312/67 - 548kg,390bhp, 350Nm.  V L49 - 575kg,410bhp,350Nm

Maserati 250f - I like these, great old race car that moves about nicely, could have some fun races with this but lack of good period tracks, but still fun at modern circuits.

I can safely say that Lotus 49 is about 1-1.5 second faster.

There are a lot of tracks of '50-'60s. If I remember well there is the possibility to do the entire season '67, or maybe also different years. Tracks are not lacking.
South Africa: Kyalamy
Montecarlo: Old Monaco
Netherlands: Old Zandvoort
Belgium: Spa66 or Zolder67
France: Rouen or Bugatti Circuit or Clermont-Ferrand or Reims
Great Britain: Silverstone67 or Brands Hatch
Germany: Nurburgring (there is a mod with old version but also AC ring is ok)
Canada: Mosport
Italy: Monza(full corse for '50s) or Monza (road corse for '60s-yearly '70s) or Imola72
USA: Watkins Glen
Mexico: Hermanos Rodríguez (there is a track mod but no good and from '80s)

There are also more tracks:
Feldberg, Solitude, Longford, Oesterreichring1979 (used in F1 during '70), Pau 67, Historic Le Mans, Thomson, Goodwood, Bridgehampton, etc etc...

We can do everything with these tracks. 

[Mark J]

Surprised at that lap time difference of the 60's f1 cars when you look how close the stats are 

Not all those tracks are near Kunos standards but nice variety available. Feldburg looks great.

[FullMetalGasket]

Monza 10k was also run in '66 (this was the last time it was used in F1).

Mark, the problem with kunos stuff is that the cars are normally quite 'honest', but you have to remember the Lotus 49 was a release day car so setup for the original tires..
In some situations the Ferrari was legitimately faster,  but less reliable in real life.

[Fabri Fibra]

I think Kunos wrote wrong stats. The 49 was around 500 kg, and lighter than Ferrari.
I also have doubts on the wheels, in game on tyres there is written 13'', but I think they were 15'' for Lotus 49. What do you think FMG?