AC cars for racing

[Stefan aka Postal]

Here is the tale of the tape on the 3 DTM cars:-

Alfa 155
1050kg
420 bhp
294 Nm torque

BMW e30 dtm
945kg
350bhp
310Nm

Merc E90
980kg
370bhp
310Nm

I had a lot of fun in a test race with all 3 cars in a 15 car grid and they seemed fairly even in a race. But you can see from the figures why the Alfa has the grunt advantage despite being the heaviest. If you applied a bit of air restrictor to it and less so to the merc you could equalise them. Or make the fastest drivers take the BMW.

This is what I found on RD forum about DTM car balancing:

The Cars
Alfa Romeo 155 v6
DreamPack 1 required
Base ballast: 90 kg

BMW E30 M3 DTM
Official (free) content
Base ballast: 0 kg

Mercedes 190E Evo II
DreamPack 1 required
Base ballast: 20 kg

But as mentioned you could put the first 5 or 6 drivers from chanpionship in the M3 mandatory, 6-10 place in the Merc and all lower placed are free to choose?.

[Stefan aka Postal]

FMG mentioned a Lancia Fulvia being a match for the Alfa GTA...

Well perhaps this https://www.racedepartment.com/downloads/abarth-1000tc.8424/ is also a nice competitor alongside the 70's Mustang that MJ has found?..

[Jeffrey]

How difficult is it to give cars the same physics? If it's easy, you can give all dtm cars the same and also the 72 and 312 the same physics.

[spanner]

I cant beleive this! The DTM mod was heavily critised here for each having the same physics when it was first released.

[Mark J]

i'm not interested in giving cars fake physics from another car.     Not sure where Spanner is getting his similar dtm physics comment from either?  Isnt the Alfa fwd and the other two RWD ? 
(And yes i know we just used the TCR mod with all cars sharing physics, but that was a be-spoke hot hatch series that i wasnt initially bothered about but turned out a fab race series!   )

As for ballasting, adding 90kg to a car is like making them drive with a co-driver    i dont mind a bit of performance/success ballast but cars get a bit lardy under braking and handling. Surely the air restrictor is the best way ala the Le Mans series, but i dont know how the increments work without reliable testing. ie does 10% restriction knock 10bhp off? etc. Anyone know?

The Lancia Fulvia 1.6HF mod could race the Alfa GTA's quite well, at least it seemed too in my test races but not sure how much an AI offline race equalises the cars considering the L49 seemed to match the 312/67 in my test races    (since poo-poo'd by Fabri and FMG)

Regarding the L49's wheels, i think they are 15" seeing how absurd they look on the car in-game  

[Baikal]

How difficult is it to give cars the same physics? If it's easy, you can give all dtm cars the same and also the 72 and 312 the same physics.

Kunos and others will not like this.   Practically it's not so difficult.   Needs 3 days.
TCR car pack was maked equal only for match TCR hard limited reglament which target irl is to make cars as equal as possible.

[Fabri Fibra]

Alfa 155 Ti V6 is 4WD. Not sure how and if work the ballasts and air restrictions, maybe really hard even in that way. We already tryed this with prototypes '70, with poor successes.

Me and some friends did a lot of races in pubblic servers with 49 and 312/67, and they are not even.
Maybe compare AIs does not work. From the few races that I did against AIs, they seem "stupid". From what a friend of mine (a AC Dev) told me, AIs use the default setup. I don't know if this thing is trustworthy or not. If yes, AI are running with bad setups (the default ones) and with bad driving (AI behavior); so total wrong.  

Instead, always from the many online experiences, it seems that the 72D and 312T are even, with quite different handling though. The Ferrari can be quite faster in hotlap-qual.lap because pushing very high rpm has a surplus of power, at the cost of destroying the engine in 2-3 laps maximum. Maybe a good thing can be limit its REV at 100-101%.
In real life, 312T should be significantly faster than Lotus 72D. These cars are also from different years, just see the tyres size. If I don't wrong in '75 there was the 72E (in every case slower than 312T).
The very high RPM power curve of 312T is a correct thing. This engine has that characteristic, thanks to the scheme V12 at 180°, very balanced and that allows high RPM. Forghieri (the Ferrari eng.) to make it work at RPM so high, designed everything around the engine for that, ignition and injection above all. First Ferrari with this engine was the 312B of '70.
Sorry for OT, but I saw a documentary about this car a few months ago.  

However I hope that other players test these two cars, for comparison.
 

[Ceolmor]

Hi all

I've been a bit quiet on the sim racing front over the glorious summer we have had in the UK, but starting to get back into it.

By coincidence, I am currently doing a offline championship I set up recreating the 1975 World Championship where all cars are the Lotus 72 (with all the team liveries from 1975) except two 312Ts for Lauda and Regazzoni.  All AI apart from me in my JPS Lotus.  And the two Ferraris are always faster than the Lotuses and take 1st and 2nd place every time.

[Mark J]

I tried out the 917/30 at Monza 66 over Easter with a view to running a fun race, what a beast of a machine!  224mph down the straight and pulling 214 in the banking!    Its the fastest car i think i've ever sim raced, like racing in fast forward 
Sadly i think it could be carnage with a grid of them, they are pretty wide and brutal with the turbos up at a high level. They are race-able but you would almost need to run a 107% qually rule to allow drivers to race them! (especially with this place's lack of drivers who actually practise  ) Some of you alien drivers would relish a high speed drafting battle in them. 

I also tried the MX5 cup cars and they were quite fun, can see how a grid of them would make a good series, just depends if enough drivers are willing to make it a competitive one.    (might do a poll).

Likewise the Cayman GT4's have that cup car racing pedigree, with nice cockpits and raucous flat 6 racing sounds.

[FullMetalGasket]

I wouldn't even consider Monza 10k for the 917/30, the closest they ever got to that was the Daytona road course. And even that made minimal use of the banking because speeds were stupid.

Try a track like the new Mosport, Laguna, a longer classic layout for Watkins, Riverside (obviously), Sonoma, Road Atlanta, or - if we really have to - Road America.

In short race them on a track they were designed to race on.
Even putting them on a modern US track like VIR would detract from them in my opinion.

[Baikal]

Formula 3 RSR . Very popular modern openwheel. Not tryed it for latest ver4. But may be a good choice for series or test fun race and ppl will love it?
 https://www.racedepartment.com/downloads/rsr-formula-3.8040/

[Mark J]

A few people have recommended these cars. I’m happy to run a test race using them. Do they suffer the usual single seater problem of too much to set up and get right though?

[Baikal]

Downloaded RSR Dallaras and tryed some laps in silverstone GP ( my test track) now. Dallara 312 feels very good for me , more interesting and alive than 317. On default set. It's just my opinion. But there are so many  of car setups values here ( comprehensive style) .. If fact we see its not good  for mass racing this summer days. 

[Baikal]

Absolutely fantastic newest RSS FREE mod of Formula 3
https://www.racedepartment.com/threads/formula-rss-3-v6.168342/
Top notch quality in all aspects and made by best AC phisics and graphisc  guru's.
Did some laps in Silverstone and feels so good for me.  
DRS is working here and, due AC bad realization, should be disabled in racing tracks.

[MaxVeloce]

I'd say RSR over RSS any day

I remember their experts arguing with mr kunos about how AC physics was just wrong and broken and they knew better, then I tried their hybrid F1 car...  it felt like I was actually playing codemasters f1 not AC  

Maybe they aced it with the RSS 3...