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August 17, 2006, 09:06:11 PM +0100 - Hockenheim (National) - UKGTL Ladder TC-65
Driver
 Team
Nat. Make Model Class Qualifying Race
Tyres Pos Time/Gap Pos Time/Gap Laps Stops Best Retirement
reason
Ballast
Pero_Grozni
 RS Motorsport
Alfa Romeo GTA (#907) TC-65 D2 3 +0.183
78.514mph
1 40:06.627
75.372mph
22 1:45.104
78.447mph
Dunlop  
Jeffrey
 Team Shark
Alfa Romeo GTA (#200100) TC-65 D2 1 1:44.831
78.652mph
2 +1.936
75.312mph
22 1:45.503
78.151mph
Dunlop  
JonM_uk
 Ze Penguin Brotherhood
Lotus Cortina (#955) TC-65 D2 5 +1.871
77.272mph
3 +30.789
74.420mph
22 1:46.971
77.078mph
Dunlop  
Zacari
 Team Shark
Alfa Romeo GTA (#200100) TC-65 D2 6 +2.050
77.143mph
4 +36.074
74.259mph
22 1:46.883
77.142mph
Dunlop  
LeH
 Ghostspeed
Alfa Romeo GTA (#202550) TC-65 D2 2 +0.162
78.530mph
5 (+2) +38.380
74.189mph
22 1:45.739
77.976mph
Dunlop  
BigG
 RS Motorsport
Lotus Cortina (#961) TC-65 D2 11 +3.171
76.342mph
6 +54.024
73.717mph
22 1:47.030
77.036mph
Dunlop  
Mooman117
 
Alfa Romeo GTA (#958) TC-65 D2 7 +2.211
77.027mph
7 +57.225
73.622mph
22 1:47.745
76.524mph
Dunlop  
pribeiro
 Ghostspeed
Lotus Cortina (#202553) TC-65 D2 8 +2.724
76.660mph
8 +1:01.938
73.481mph
22 1:47.759
76.514mph
Dunlop  
Bernie Lomax
 Ze Penguin Brotherhood
Alfa Romeo GTA (#956) TC-65 D2 9 +2.837
76.579mph
9 +1:08.236
73.294mph
22 1:48.445
76.030mph
Dunlop  
Mark J
 Legends Racing
Alfa Romeo GTA (#200802) TC-65 D2 12 +3.208
76.316mph
10 +1:17.539
73.020mph
22 1:48.523
75.976mph
Dunlop  
Dave 'Gizmo' Gymer
 Team Shark
Alfa Romeo GTA (#200100) TC-65 D2 19 +4.158
75.651mph
11 +1:31.961
72.598mph
22 1:48.469
76.014mph
Dunlop  
popabawa
 Legends Racing
Austin Mini Cooper 1275S (#593) TC-65 D2 17 +3.892
75.836mph
12 +1:32.528
72.582mph
22 1:49.271
75.456mph
Dunlop  
TinMan
 Team Oldie Racing
Alfa Romeo GTA (#958) TC-65 D2 13 +3.384
76.192mph
13 +1:34.319
72.530mph
22 1:48.061
76.301mph
Dunlop  
Madd-RIP
 
Lotus Cortina (#121206) TC-65 D2 14 +3.404
76.178mph
14 +1:34.657
72.520mph
22 1:48.083
76.285mph
Dunlop  
Baz
 Team Oldie Racing
Alfa Romeo GTA (#922) TC-65 D2 20 +4.917
75.128mph
15 +1:45.220
72.215mph
22 1:49.592
75.235mph
Dunlop  
D_Nichols
 
Lotus Cortina (#924) TC-65 D2 22 +6.569
74.014mph
16 +1L
70.711mph
21 1:49.552
75.262mph
Dunlop  
Oilseal
 Team Oldie Racing
Alfa Romeo GTA (#958) TC-65 D2 23 +6.867
73.816mph
17 +47.264
69.372mph
21 1:51.359
74.041mph
Dunlop  
BillThomas
 
Alfa Romeo GTA (#922) TC-65 D2 24 +8.361
72.842mph
18 +47.563
69.363mph
21 1:53.634
72.559mph
Dunlop  
Bully
 
Alfa Romeo GTA (#202550) TC-65 D2 21 +4.983
75.083mph
19 +2L
67.223mph
20 1:51.391
74.020mph
Dunlop  
Woodee
 
Alfa Romeo GTA (#958) TC-65 D2 15 +3.498
76.112mph
20 +3L 19 1:48.184
76.214mph
DQ
Dunlop  
OSiriS
 
Alfa Romeo GTA (#958) TC-65 D2 16 +3.557
76.070mph
21 (+2) +6L 16 1:49.071
75.594mph
unknown
Dunlop  
Aagramn
 Team Shark
Alfa Romeo GTA (#200100) TC-65 D2 18 +4.010
75.754mph
22 +14L 8 1:49.263
75.461mph
unknown
Dunlop  
LEUVEN
 CBFR
Alfa Romeo GTA (#922) TC-65 D2 4 +1.068
77.858mph
+22L 0 ---
---
DQ
Dunlop  
JohnnyDee
 Ghostspeed
Alfa Romeo GTA (#202550) TC-65 D2 10 +2.882
76.547mph
0 ---
---
unknown
Dunlop  
Adam Parle
 
Alfa Romeo GTA (#958) TC-65 D2 0 ---
---
unknown
Dunlop  

Moderator's Report

There were some reports of drivers cutting the track. There seems to be some confusion over the 'use of track surface' rule. It states "Drivers must at all times keep at least two wheels within the boundaries of the track. The track is defined as the normal road surface, which at most tracks is definied by white lines at the edge of the road, ***plus any painted curbs***." Running over the white line is OK, provided the driver keeps two wheels on the curb. Drivers will not be penalised for running wide, unless they gain an advantage by doing so.


Server replay time: 256s

OSiriS has run off the track at Einfahrt Parabolika and has rejoined ahead of Aagramn, who carries a little more speed onto the curvy straight. Aagramn starts to pull alongside OSiriS, but the latter slowly moves over until the latter's rear left contacts the former's right front, and Aagramn has to back out of the throttle to avoid being run off the track.

OSiriS says he could see Aagramn in his mirrors and assumed that he must be behind him. However, he should have realised that even if Aagramn was not actually alongside, he was gaining on him and had committed to the left hand side of the track, so OSiriS should've left him some room.


Server replay time: 650s

LeH cuts the track about a dozen times over the course of the race. The cuts are very marginal, his normal line is within the track boundaries as defined in the 'use of track surface' rule.


Server replay time: 756s

OSiriS runs wide in the Sachskurve; Baz sees this and tries to take advantage, but as OSiriS rejoins he comes back onto the track quite violently and the two collide, Baz spinning off as a result.

Baz could've left a bit more room for OSiriS to rejoin, but OSiriS should have taken more care to rejoin gradually instead of wrestling his car off the curbs using half the track. The Alfa isn't the easiest car to handle across the higher curbs and for this reason, along with the fairly modest amount of track that Baz left him to work with, I'm reducing what would normally be a penalty to a warning.


Server replay time: 830s

LeH has Ruskus and Pero breathing down his neck as they arrive at the final corner in a fight for the lead. Ahead is Bully in last place, who runs slightly wide but is clearly ahead as he turns into the final corner. LeH takes his car out even wider than Bully and then tries to force his way up the inside, pushing Bully into a big tank slapper.

Bully is now on the right hand side, with LeH, Ruskus and Pero fighting for position as all four head for the Nordkurve. Four into one will not go at the best of times, and Bully made a serious error of judgement in not lifting off and allowing the leaders to fight their way into T1, mitigated by the rough handling from LeH which preceeded it.

As they arrive at T1, Ruskus is able to go cleanly through into the lead, but Pero has Bully alongside and has nowhere to go as LeH sweeps across and makes hard contact with him. Luckily all four emerge relatively unscathed, although LeH has damaged suspension.

The replay suggests that even had Bully not been there, Pero did not have room to go through T1 inside LeH. We will never know for sure but this is one of those occaisions where discretion would have been the better part of valour and LeH might have finished 3rd instead of 5th had he left Pero more room. However, this is a classic "fog of war" case and so we're declaring the Nordkurve contact a racing incident.

  • Bullywarning — unnecessarily holding up lapping drivers
  • LeH ([GS]LeH)penalty — contact with Bully in the Sudkurve — 2 places lost


Server replay time: 1075s

As they reach Mobilkurve, Aagramn is trying to outbreak OSiriS, getting approximately a 40% overlap as the latter turns in, leaving no room on the inside and making solid side contact. Aagramn manages to keep hold of the car as it slides across the curbs and comes out ahead.

  • OSiriS (Phill Kerins)penalty — contact with Aagramn — 1 place lost (plus 1 for penalty points)


Server replay time: 1097s

Following the previous contact between them, Aagramn is ahead of OSiriS, whose painkillers have just worn off, as they come through the final corners. Aagramn brakes as usual for the penultimate corner, but OSiriS misjudges his braking completely, spinning Aagramn around, who then collects Baz.

  • OSiriS (Phill Kerins)penalty — rear ending Aagramn — 2 places lost (plus 1 for penalty points)
    For advice only - unreported by victim, so penalty disregarded


Server replay time: 1142s

Mooman isn't close enough to make a pass on PRiberiro approaching the corner. Mooman brakes a bit late, locks up trying to avoid PRiberiro but is unable to prevent contact. This was clearly a driver error and not an agressive passing move, so I'm reducing this to a warning.

  • Mooman117warning — rear ending PRiberiro
    For advice only - unreported by victim, so penalty disregarded

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Author Topic: UKGTL Ladder - TC-65 @ Hockenheim National - 17th August  (Read 22127 times)
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Simon Gymer
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« on: August 07, 2006, 11:40:39 AM +0100 »

All members welcome.

Date: Thursday 17th August

Practice: 20:30 (15 mins)
Qualifying: 20:45 (20 mins)
Race: 21:05 (22 laps = ~40 mins)

Cars allowed: Alfa Romeo GTA, Lotus Cortina, Mini Cooper
Time of Day Setting: 14:00

Server: UKGTL Ladder; in the event that the lobby is unavailable, connect using Direct IP, entering games.avonrise.co.uk in the Add IP box
Password: See this post

Notes:
(1) It's best if all drivers can make sure they are connected before the Qualifying session as drivers on track during qualifying will not see cars that join after they are on track until they go back to the garage.
(2) Please make sure you are fully aware of the SimRacing.org.uk Rules. Note in particular that we will be using the new pit lane speed limiter starting procedure.
(3) General information on the ladder can be found on the series home page.
(4) The season will be run using a UKGTL carpack v1.1 which will need to be installed prior to racing.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2006, 09:50:59 PM +0100 by Shark » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: August 11, 2006, 08:22:26 PM +0100 »

I'll be on my hols for this one  :'(
Is this the final race in this series?
I have enjoyed entering the GTL Ladder thursday night events, although i aint that good compared to most of you! But still, i think its been a well organised event, with some great driving, and some great races... Cool
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« Reply #2 on: August 11, 2006, 09:52:05 PM +0100 »

Is this the final race in this series?

Why does everyone ask that? Roll Eyes Tongue

The ladder will never end. We just haven't scheduled individual events an infinite distance in the future...
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« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2006, 11:48:48 PM +0100 »

Ah! i see...didn't know that Roll Eyes
i asked the same question before last weeks race aswell  whistling

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« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2006, 12:01:24 AM +0100 »

oh no... battle of the little cars... maybe I will have more a chance this time!!
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Minton
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« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2006, 12:18:33 AM +0100 »

Quote
The ladder will never end

I didnt know that either , could get a bit boring after a few years! Grin Tongue
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« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2006, 11:08:15 AM +0100 »

I'll be able to make this one!
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rikrecked
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« Reply #7 on: August 14, 2006, 02:30:09 AM +0100 »

I won’t be racing or any other races until the ridicules race start is changed.
When is a START LINE not a START LINE? When someone makes stupid rules that have nothing to do with real or sim racing, anywhere else.
So you have to wait for the car in front to take off his limiter! There is no end to the gap between you and the field in front, if someone wants to give his mate a good head start, at least in real and all other sim racing that ends at the START LINE.
Anyway it’s not the car in front of you it’s the car by the side of you, last race I waited till the car in front went and making sure not to pass the car at my side before the START LINE I started racing, you know the sort of thing that in every other place in the world of racing happens, so by the 1st corner I had quite a large gap to the cars in front due to the car at my side dilly dallying, then I guess just to rub in the time he made me lose, he cut inside me and hit me trying to ram me off the road before turn three!  I guess I disserved that hit because I used the START LINE to start my race.
Yeah I’ve meet them all and when rules start changing to something that would be more suitable to “professional wrestling” it’s time to get out.
Oh and by the way I finished well in front of the guy who tried to ram me off the road!
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Dave 'Gizmo' Gymer
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« Reply #8 on: August 14, 2006, 07:47:13 AM +0100 »

I won’t be racing or any other races until the ridicules race start is changed.

Your loss.
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Simon Gymer
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« Reply #9 on: August 14, 2006, 09:42:03 AM +0100 »

When is a START LINE not a START LINE? When someone makes stupid rules that have nothing to do with real or sim racing, anywhere else.
So you have to wait for the car in front to take off his limiter! There is no end to the gap between you and the field in front, if someone wants to give his mate a good head start, at least in real and all other sim racing that ends at the START LINE.

This rule is there for a very good reason and if you think it through logically you will see that the start line can not be the start line. The leader should not take his limiter off till he crosses the start line. Therefore the guy behind him can't see him take his limiter off until after the start line and so on down the line. This means all cars are effectively taking their limiter off some time AFTER the start line.

Onto why the rule is there....This rule was made with very good reason, to reduce the Turn 1 Lap 1 incident. By making sure the cars are spread as they go it makes the racing much safer and ultimately more enjoyable for everyone. It reduces the possibility of having bunches of cars together on lap 1, the most dangerous lap of them all. It goes to the very heart of SimRacing.org.uk because it is promoting safety first and racing second. This is why we don't have standing starts.

SimRacers should be gentlemen and sporting first and racers second. If anyone does not think they can do that then they should not race here.

then I guess just to rub in the time he made me lose, he cut inside me and hit me trying to ram me off the road before turn three!  I guess I disserved that hit because I used the START LINE to start my race.
Oh and by the way I finished well in front of the guy who tried to ram me off the road!

If someone tried to ram you where is the incident report? You are not endearing yourself to your fellow racers by accusing a respected driver of something that all the other drivers that have raced with him for many seasons know would not be true.

People seem to have forgotten lately that if you have been involved in an incident it is very unlikely that the other driver was intentionally doing it to "crash" into you and instead of waving accusitory fingers at someone else without reviewing an incident with calm and objectiveness looking at it from both cars on the replay is a far more measured and respected response from which you will have all the facts. What another drivers car is doing from your cockpit often looks very different to what they were actually doing.
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Zacari
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« Reply #10 on: August 14, 2006, 09:51:26 AM +0100 »

At a risk to my blood pressure I'm gonna turn up for this one, it's a shame that the driving standards of some are keeping more of the regulars away but hopefully that'll change.

People seem to have forgotten lately that if you have been involved in an incident it is very unlikely that the other driver was intentionally doing it to "crash" into you and instead of waving accusitory fingers at someone else without reviewing an incident with calm and objectiveness looking at it from both cars on the replay is a far more measured and respected response from which you will have all the facts. What another drivers car is doing from your cockpit often looks very different to what they were actually doing.

Unfortunately most of the bad driving is done by people who have no desire to become 'part of the community' of UKGTR, who barely ever look at the forums and who can't be bothered to look over the replay to write a report.  It's stated in the rules that persistant bad driving will get you banned for a time, maybe that's the only way we'll get some controlled driving back in GTL Huh I get the feeling the bad drivers aren't even aware that they're getting penalised after the race laugh Angry
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popabawa
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« Reply #11 on: August 14, 2006, 10:05:38 AM +0100 »

I'd say that seems a very well observed analysis Zacari. Spot on.
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« Reply #12 on: August 14, 2006, 11:52:09 AM +0100 »

If Rikrecked is the same person as Rik, i guess its me your accusing of 'ramming' you ? As i was noted of a mod incident.  Maybe like others have mentioned, you should watch the replay, then you will see the reason my car hit yours was because someone braked a little late and rear ended my car into yours. Roll Eyes I didnt report the guy who tapped me as i just accepted it as a race incident in a busy pack of cars...ie nothing intentional. From what i saw it hardly ruined your race, you just went wide.
As i know from recent experience in an incident in another race, what initially looked bad from in my cockpit, looked completely different from the other guys cockpit or different camera angles...aye sharky Wink Grin

Not a great fan of the TC65 cars, but should be along for this race.
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BillThomas
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« Reply #13 on: August 14, 2006, 11:56:22 AM +0100 »

People seem to have forgotten lately that if you have been involved in an incident it is very unlikely that the other driver was intentionally doing it to "crash" into you and instead of waving accusitory fingers at someone else without reviewing an incident with calm and objectiveness looking at it from both cars on the replay is a far more measured and respected response from which you will have all the facts. What another drivers car is doing from your cockpit often looks very different to what they were actually doing.

The last sentence equally applies to drivers being lapped, he has no identification of the driver behind (who knows whose in front when they are a small speck - before it's even recognisable as a car).  Therefore he does not know where or how he is going to be overtaken and trying to judge this whilst still trying to continue the race is difficult and distracting if he tries to be considerate.  I have missed braking points and gone off on a number of occasions.

Drivers overtaking should remember we're all trying to race within our capabilities and don't assume the driver in front will move out of your way once he has committed to a corner.  He has 2 choices brake early and keep to the near side allowing you to overtake prior to apex or run wide denying you the fast run in down the outside, we are not mind readers and we often misjudge closing speeds - it's not deliberate.

Bill
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« Reply #14 on: August 14, 2006, 11:57:30 AM +0100 »

I won’t be racing or any other races until the ridicules race start is changed.

The start procedure we have works very well, it's not going to be changed because one person hasn't read the rules.
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The correct procedure is brake-swear, not swear-brake.
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