UKGTL Ladder - TC-65 @ Hockenheim National - 17th August

[Adam Parle]

I've been reading the posts regarding a lower standard in GTL recently, and I'm not really able to comment on the matter, having only made 1 ladder race, and was woefully slow after taking (what turned out to be) the wrong car.  Of all the races I've taken part in I can't recall any bad driving that caused my blood to boil, although being a consistent backmarker, my view of poor driving will no doubt be different to the guys consistently lapping me!

I've caused my fair share of problems, mainly for Ruskus unfortunately, whilst lapping me, and it was always driver error on my part rather than some vindictive plan to pirouette in front of him causing a loss of position.

With all forms of racing, battling for position is occasionally going to result in one or more parties having some sort of grievance, it's just one of those things.  I for one thoroughly enjoy all the racing I've had the privilege to participate in, and would rather all grievances were kept private and directed through the relevant channels rather than airing them in public where ultimately no good will come of it.  Race format issues, as with race reports, should be PM'd to the relevant moderator imho, and if a public opinion is required (at the moderator's discretion) this can then be the next step.

I for one am looking forward to this race, and all being well I will be there in the Alfa, no doubt throwing the odd driver influenced pirouette into the mix.

[Aagramn]

The last sentence equally applies to drivers being lapped, he has no identification of the driver behind (who knows whose in front when they are a small speck - before it's even recognisable as a car).  Therefore he does not know where or how he is going to be overtaken and trying to judge this whilst still trying to continue the race is difficult and distracting if he tries to be considerate.  I have missed braking points and gone off on a number of occasions.

I use the name tags (tab key) and the look behind key to check who is coming up behind me. I also gauge the rate at which they are catching me. If they are closing very quickly it's much more likely to be lapper.

Drivers overtaking should remember we're all trying to race within our capabilities and don't assume the driver in front will move out of your way once he has committed to a corner.  He has 2 choices brake early and keep to the near side allowing you to overtake prior to apex or run wide denying you the fast run in down the outside, we are not mind readers and we often misjudge closing speeds - it's not deliberate.

Yes, being lapped can be very difficult, more so than normal racing someone at times. You have a very limited view of the car behind, judging the closure rate is tricky and you're never quite sure what the other driver is going to do. The bigger the difference in pace the more difficult it is. It's easy to make a mistake because you're watching the other car. Lapping drivers is also tricky, but at least you have better view of the other car.

[BillThomas]

I use the name tags (tab key) and the look behind key to check who is coming up behind me. I also gauge the rate at which they are catching me. If they are closing very quickly it's much more likely to be lapper.

Thanks for the tip

[Woodee]

People seem to have forgotten lately that if you have been involved in an incident it is very unlikely that the other driver was intentionally doing it to "crash" into you and instead of waving accusitory fingers at someone else without reviewing an incident with calm and objectiveness looking at it from both cars on the replay is a far more measured and respected response from which you will have all the facts. What another drivers car is doing from your cockpit often looks very different to what they were actually doing.

The last sentence equally applies to drivers being lapped, he has no identification of the driver behind (who knows whose in front when they are a small speck - before it's even recognisable as a car).  Therefore he does not know where or how he is going to be overtaken and trying to judge this whilst still trying to continue the race is difficult and distracting if he tries to be considerate.  I have missed braking points and gone off on a number of occasions.

Drivers overtaking should remember we're all trying to race within our capabilities and don't assume the driver in front will move out of your way once he has committed to a corner.  He has 2 choices brake early and keep to the near side allowing you to overtake prior to apex or run wide denying you the fast run in down the outside, we are not mind readers and we often misjudge closing speeds - it's not deliberate.

Bill

My thoughts exactly

[TinMan]

As I understand it,this is a league where like-minded people gather to race each other. The people who are good enough to organise it for us have formulated a set of rules, to which they expect us to adhere.
This is a bloody well run league, whose members I have always found to be extremely pleasant, helpful and considerate. As one who is perpetually in the lower half of the results I have never felt bullied or demeaned by the faster drivers - nor plotted against to reduce my effectiveness as a racer.
Anyone who feels otherwise should perhaps consider racing elsewhere.

TC

[mclaessen]

Couldn't put it better myself Tom

[Pero_Grozni]

Lapping is what I have become very much used to by now and it is very rare that the situation is problematic. Especially if it is in a situation where you have enough of a lead on the driver behind you there is time to select where to pass and how to pass. If possible I also sometimes do not lap people as soon as I can if the guys are having a battle and I have enough of a lead.
The tricky bit is when there is a car right behind you and you are in a battle for position. Than you need to get past the cars that are being lapped as quickly as possible and it is sometimes very tight or you HAVE to go for a move that is riskyer than you would want it to be.
That is why I alway flash my lights allready from a bit of a distance and than again closer up if I see that the driver has not seen me (usually you can see that when getting closer). Most of the cases work, rarely the lapped guy mistakes me for a car that is batteling him for position but usually than everything works out. Imola and the GT40 was more of a strange case - from my point of view it seemed that the lapping wasnt recognised as there was much line changing going on ->even more so than sometimes when there really is a fight for position. However I was able to get past without big problems as my car was up to the task. If I would have been in an Escort however I wouldnt be able to pass due to the fact that I would be loosing too much ground on the straights and would than be held up in the corners - so couldnt get a run again on the next straight.
We have disscused this subject many times before and that is also why there was a rule adjustement.
I am not a fan of the rolling start - I was  against it, but I have to say that when we get it right it does work very well against the T1 pileups. The problem I see really is that the people dont keep together enough on the out lap and the accelerating braking that is going on. I try every time to keep my ca 80....100km/h, but most of the times I have to really slow down on the middle of the out lap to get the field together again as I allready open a gap on the second placed guy.
Once we got on the rew limmiter everybody should close up even more (each limmiter gets turned on later than the car infront by default). Once you see the car infront move you should immidiatly go for it. IMO the race itself dosent really suffer from the lack of T1 passes. Sure beats a classic mulit car off in the first corner which do happen even with a lot of care - it is extremly easy to brake a tad to late and than carnage happens. Especially in a mixed car field where some cars are far slower off the line even though they are faster on track - happens in the best of leauges (heck - even F1...)

[LeH]

I also find the rolling starts a good idea. Of course normal standing starts are more exciting, but even with all professional drivers you have a big chance that it will end in a huge pile of scrap metal. So I also prefer the slightly more boring start, but therefor have a race thats longer than just to turn one.

Maybe the procedure could still be a bit tweaked tho. I personally have a problem with my tyres cooling down too much and not having a chance to keep them on temperature, since I can't accelerate and brake at the same time (throttle and brake on one axis). Braking and then spinning them doesn't work ... (see last moderator's report ). Maybe the pitlimiter phase could be started earlier, so people can keep a bigger distance before, because they are not fearing to miss the start anymore. The bigger distance then would allow some braking and accelerating without causing a "massive freeway pileup".

Also its sometimes hard to identify when exactly the driver ahead engages his speedlimiter, which also leads to slowing down and accelerating when you engage it to late or early. Maybe this could be solved by flashing the lights, when you enable the limiter, or having a little bit a higher pace-lap speed, so when someone engages the limiter his speed is distinctly slower.

Attempts to overtake by disengaging the limiter early, could be stopped by not allowing to overtake until turn 1.

These are just ideas that came to my mind in the last races, they are just suggestions and I don't have a problem if they are not considered. All in all I like the races in UKGTL very much, and think the rather strict rules, make a better racing overall. Also don't forget, even in Formula 1 they don't have less incidents and problems, tho you could expect there are really only the best drivers in the world. Its just a part of racing we have to deal with, and in the end I think, its actually more exciting when you know, that something unexpected can always happen.  

[pribeiro]

As I understand it,this is a league where like-minded people gather to race each other. The people who are good enough to organise it for us have formulated a set of rules, to which they expect us to adhere.
This is a bloody well run league, whose members I have always found to be extremely pleasant, helpful and considerate. As one who is perpetually in the lower half of the results I have never felt bullied or demeaned by the faster drivers - nor plotted against to reduce my effectiveness as a racer.
Anyone who feels otherwise should perhaps consider racing elsewhere.

TC

My thoughts exactly 

[LEUVEN]

I won’t be racing or any other races until the ridicules race start is changed.
When is a START LINE not a START LINE? When someone makes stupid rules that have nothing to do with real or sim racing, anywhere else.
So you have to wait for the car in front to take off his limiter! There is no end to the gap between you and the field in front, if someone wants to give his mate a good head start, at least in real and all other sim racing that ends at the START LINE.
Anyway it’s not the car in front of you it’s the car by the side of you, last race I waited till the car in front went and making sure not to pass the car at my side before the START LINE I started racing, you know the sort of thing that in every other place in the world of racing happens, so by the 1st corner I had quite a large gap to the cars in front due to the car at my side dilly dallying, then I guess just to rub in the time he made me lose, he cut inside me and hit me trying to ram me off the road before turn three!  I guess I disserved that hit because I used the START LINE to start my race.
Yeah I’ve meet them all and when rules start changing to something that would be more suitable to “professional wrestling” it’s time to get out.
Oh and by the way I finished well in front of the guy who tried to ram me off the road!

Not doing exactly what real life racing series is doing and introducing "silly" rules can annoy, but if you take a step back and think.......do we really need to be racing right from the first second? ........the answer you should read here is NO
I would prefer proper rules as I think I'm capable, but, no wait BUT it has happened so many times before and will continue to happen when so many different skilled drivers sat behind PC's cockpits etc... come together to race, I for one would rather lose positions at the start from taking it easy just for a few seconds for god's sake, as long as I finish the race.
So in simple English terms, I back the rule, although I don't fully understand it yet but I may just run in this race and look in the rules before hand.

[D_Nichols]

Lo everyone, would it be ok for me to make my first appearence in UKGTR at this event?

With the TPG season coming to its end I need something to keep my skills (or lack of them) sharp (or at least pointy).

[OSiriS]

The GTL ladder is open to anyone who is registered on this site, so I can't see a problem

[Bully]

Hi everyone,
                  I will hopefully be making an appearance on this race! I apologise for my previous appearance where I was not fully aware of the starting proceedure. I am now clued up (I read the rules!). I will be on my best behaviour

See you there,
                     Bully

[Adam Parle]

Out of interest, what laptimes are people putting in here??  I've been consistently lapping at low 1:50s/51s, but struggle to get much more out of the car (Alfa).

[OSiriS]

Getting low 1.49s atm, but I'm pretty sure I have a low 1:48 in me.