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  • A16 Nürburgring: November 04, 2020
November 04, 2020, 03:56:48 PM +0000 - Nürburgring (GP) - UKAC Season 16
Driver
 Team
Nat. Make Model Class Qualifying Race
Tyres Pos Time/Gap Pos Time/Gap Laps Stops Best Retirement
reason
Ballast
FullMetalGasket
 Black Night Racing
Mercedes 190 Evo2 DTM 1 2:11.125
---
1 33:38.008
---
15 2:11.749
---
Michelin +6.0kg
Fabri Fibra
 Magnesium Team
Alfa Romeo 155 DTM 2 +0.081
---
2 +0.320
---
15 2:12.341
---
Michelin +11.0kg
IbnSolmyr
 
Ford Sierra Cosworth RS500 DTM DTM 4 +1.846
---
3 +6.623
---
15 2:13.207
---
Dunlop +30.0kg
L4de
 
Alfa Romeo 155 DTM 7 +3.251
---
4 +31.989
---
15 2:14.504
---
Michelin +11.0kg
goldtop
 Kerb Crawlers
BMW M3 E30 DTM DTM 5 +2.896
---
5 +32.787
---
15 2:14.604
---
Michelin  
Syd Drake
 Drake Racing
Ford Sierra Cosworth RS500 DTM DTM 9 +4.837
---
6 +43.099
---
15 2:14.717
---
Dunlop +30.0kg
KDiesel
 
BMW M3 E30 DTM DTM 6 +3.012
---
7 +1:02.613
---
15 2:14.841
---
Michelin  
SRW
 Prodigy Racing
Ford Sierra Cosworth RS500 DTM DTM 10 +5.015
---
8 +1:30.045
---
15 2:16.076
---
Dunlop +30.0kg
Mark J
 Legends Racing
BMW M3 E30 DTM DTM 3 +1.734
---
9 +1L
---
14 2:13.112
---
Michelin  
Bob
 WSL Racing Team
Alfa Romeo 155 DTM 8 +3.592
---
10 +13L
---
2 2:16.134
---
Michelin +11.0kg
Stefan aka Postal
 Legends Racing
Ford Sierra Cosworth RS500 DTM DTM DNS ---
---
Dunlop +30.0kg
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Author Topic: UKAC Season 16 - Nürburgring - Nov 4  (Read 1197 times)
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FullMetalGasket
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« on: October 30, 2020, 04:15:42 PM +0000 »



Following on from a fun race about a year and a half back featuring a mixed grid of DTM cars I'm having another go at balancing the grid.
We'll be using the same track layout and the current versions of the same cars - but I've had my calculator out and have been working on better ways of balancing the grid.

As a result I'm using a combination of ballast and restrictor in order to get the power to weight into a roughly similar band.
The heavy cars will still have more power - so will likely end up with better top-end speed - but won't simply walk away on the straights anymore.

Anyone that can practice with all 4 cars will be appreciated, I'll be doing all 4 but know I have strong favourites that I'm better in so that will likely skew the times.

The hope is that I can come up with a suitable handicapping baseline to allow a series to be run - that will then have some further success ballast added depending on championship position (In order to smooth out the changes smoothly across the season).


Password: see above

Practice: 19:30 (45 mins)
Qual: 20:15 (15 mins)
Race: 20:30  (30 mins + 1 lap)


Cars allowed:
Alfa 155 (+11Kg ballast, 10% (-42Hp) restrictor)
BMW M3 DTM (no handicap)
Ford Sierra R500 V3.03 (+20Kg Ballast, 50% restrictor (turbos don't respond the same as N/A before you ask!)
https://www.racedepartment.com/downloads/ford-sierra-cosworth-rs500-pack.24027/
Mercedes 190E DTM (+6Kg ballast, 1% (-6.3Hp) restrictor.

The above handicapping brings everything to roughly 2.7Kg/Hp apart from the Ford - as it's Turbocharged, it has epic torque and is faster than it should be - providing the mod team got their figures right.

Track: Nurburgring GP



Live Timing: here

Time of Day Setting: 15:00
Weather: Mid-clear
Start: Standing
Tyre wear: Normal
Fuel consumption: Normal
Pit-stops: Not required

Server track settings:
SESSION_START=100
RANDOMNESS=0
LAP_GAIN=0
SESSION_TRANSFER=N/a

Damage: 60%

Password: see above

PLP App - Not used in this series. Cutting will be monitored on replay and penalties issued for excessive cutting.

*edited 01/11/20 - Sierra has received heavy handicapping as was lapping over a second faster than the BMW. This is possibly caused by altitude as the Ford is turbocharged. We'll also run a test race at sea level to see how things change then - I'm really hoping it won't, as I'll have to run massive numbers of laps on EVERY circuit to balance it otherwise....
« Last Edit: November 01, 2020, 08:20:29 AM +0000 by FullMetalGasket » Logged
IbnSolmyr
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« Reply #1 on: November 01, 2020, 04:37:31 PM +0000 »

I don't know much about those DTM beasts but dislike the fact they were using ABS yet.
Then were those 6 gears gearboxes sequential - I mean "classic" sequential with a lever - or H pattern ?


Reading your additional note it looks like you're planning to build a series of these Tim ?  Lips Sealed
I must say I won't participate in I'm afraid if so.. for multiple reasons. Mainly because it's too modern stuff for me.  Undecided

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Barone
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« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2020, 06:10:19 PM +0000 »

Hi mates!
hope you're well. If I can make it I think I'll be in with the alfa! Would be good to taste the tarmac again Smiley
« Last Edit: November 02, 2020, 01:42:13 PM +0000 by Barone » Logged
KDiesel
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« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2020, 06:13:19 PM +0000 »

I don't know much about those DTM beasts but dislike the fact they were using ABS yet.
Then were those 6 gears gearboxes sequential - I mean "classic" sequential with a lever - or H pattern ?


Reading your additional note it looks like you're planning to build a series of these Tim ?  Lips Sealed
I must say I won't participate in I'm afraid if so.. for multiple reasons. Mainly because it's too modern stuff for me.  Undecided



These cars are good combination of historic/modern, stuff from early 90´s or so. I think all should be medium happy. Smiley

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Fabri Fibra
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« Reply #4 on: November 02, 2020, 01:38:03 AM +0000 »

I don't know much about those DTM beasts but dislike the fact they were using ABS yet.
Then were those 6 gears gearboxes sequential - I mean "classic" sequential with a lever - or H pattern ?


Reading your additional note it looks like you're planning to build a series of these Tim ?  Lips Sealed
I must say I won't participate in I'm afraid if so.. for multiple reasons. Mainly because it's too modern stuff for me.  Undecided


H, some cars have 5 gears, other 6.
The 155 has not the ABS (I think), and considering that it has a manual lever, and few electronics should be that of '93 -'94. Those of the following years were a concentrate of remarkable technology.

They are quite old style to drive. They have all good handling, the Alfa is a bit strange because she is 4wd (she is like a Delta for track). I suggest you to try all, specially the Sierra and Mercedes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohPEXfm7q1M&t=4s
with engl sub.

« Last Edit: November 02, 2020, 02:10:51 AM +0000 by Fabri Fibra » Logged
FullMetalGasket
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« Reply #5 on: November 02, 2020, 06:14:32 AM +0000 »

I don't know much about those DTM beasts but dislike the fact they were using ABS yet.
Then were those 6 gears gearboxes sequential - I mean "classic" sequential with a lever - or H pattern ?


All are H-shifter manuals. No ABS on the Alfa, and it's so bad on the Merc that it's about half a second to a second faster here with it turned off. Something that should be kept in mind by anyone struggling for laptimes in it.

This is an repeat of a very good fun race from a while back - I don't think that anyone didn't enjoy it. All I've done is spend a bit longer balancing the cars (maybe 4 hours now) until they all lap to within a couple of tenths with me driving and having set them up.
Other people drive differently though so I'll appreciate others spending some time on all 4 so I can further equal them if needed.
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SRW
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« Reply #6 on: November 02, 2020, 01:49:29 PM +0000 »

I will probably go for the Sierra, should be a bit easier to handle than the BTCC spec version we raced a few months ago as they had more power than the DTM version.
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FullMetalGasket
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« Reply #7 on: November 02, 2020, 03:31:37 PM +0000 »

You also have ABS and an LSD in the DTM version - it was a spool (welded diff to all intents and purposes) unit in the BTCC car.
The Sierra handles very nicely to be honest, although while it has very good low/mid range power and torque it's lacking a bit of top end speed, this is due to the restrictor level I'm having to run it with to slow it down (The alternative would likely be 100Kgs+ of ballast which would generate excessive tire wear).
Given it exits corners better than everything apart from the Alfa (which is obviously very good out of low-speed corners) that evens things quite nicely (I hope).

I would argue that BMW and Sierra are easiest to drive fast, as Alfa and Merc either don't have ABS - or run better without it. As I intend to take the Merc as usual, I've ballasted it based on running without ABS.
Depending on how this race goes we might want to consider just not having ABS for the series to keep things interesting? (I refuse to say fair, as the Alfa's destroyed the competition in real life without it!)
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KDiesel
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« Reply #8 on: November 02, 2020, 04:33:57 PM +0000 »

You also have ABS and an LSD in the DTM version - it was a spool (welded diff to all intents and purposes) unit in the BTCC car.
The Sierra handles very nicely to be honest, although while it has very good low/mid range power and torque it's lacking a bit of top end speed, this is due to the restrictor level I'm having to run it with to slow it down (The alternative would likely be 100Kgs+ of ballast which would generate excessive tire wear).
Given it exits corners better than everything apart from the Alfa (which is obviously very good out of low-speed corners) that evens things quite nicely (I hope).

I would argue that BMW and Sierra are easiest to drive fast, as Alfa and Merc either don't have ABS - or run better without it. As I intend to take the Merc as usual, I've ballasted it based on running without ABS.
Depending on how this race goes we might want to consider just not having ABS for the series to keep things interesting? (I refuse to say fair, as the Alfa's destroyed the competition in real life without it!)

Blaah, already did testing with ballast/restriction what was in 1st race post. This is ridiculus tbh, are those ballasts/restrictions final or are they gonna be different tomorrow again?
« Last Edit: November 02, 2020, 04:37:59 PM +0000 by KDiesel » Logged
Stefan aka Postal
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« Reply #9 on: November 02, 2020, 07:24:50 PM +0000 »

Why is it ridiculous then? We should test these settings before starting any sort of series no?

Indeed a little bit short notice for some testing, but lets see what the results say. Hopefully we can have a bit of spread in cars. Last DTM races I ran the Merc and Alfa, so I am thinking of taking the Sierra for this one.
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KDiesel
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« Reply #10 on: November 02, 2020, 07:50:31 PM +0000 »

Why is it ridiculous then?



When race post is published I expect that info is accurate for making decision what car to take and do some settings, right? Now I see that I just wasted basically 4 hours for nothing and I need to do everything again... Beside cars ain't so dramatically different, least in my hands, so I think i'ts better leave them alone and drive all kind of tracks, fast,slow and medium speeds.
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Mark J
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« Reply #11 on: November 02, 2020, 09:09:05 PM +0000 »

Forgot how cool these cars are to drive after so long since we used them.  Cool Alas with a p-cup race at SRO tomorrow I won’t get enough time to try them all.  Cry
Hope you can get the balancing closer, will make for a cracking series.
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Fabri Fibra
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« Reply #12 on: November 02, 2020, 11:16:00 PM +0000 »

I tryed the 155, Sierra and Mercedes. They seem quite good in balance.
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Stefan aka Postal
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« Reply #13 on: November 03, 2020, 08:23:20 AM +0000 »

Thanks Fabri for the youtube link. Very entertaining stuff. Smiley

I did quite some laps in the Sierra and needed a bit of setup work to get it going. Still it seems rather hard to drive on its limit. Then I switched to the BMW on default setup and was as fast within 6 laps and it looks easier to handle over race distance too.
So I am probably not fast enough with the Sierra to extract its full potential, but there seems very little purpose for me to take the Sierra in a proper series as it will be harder to keep a decent pace.

I will stick with the RS500 for this race though to see what's what.
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goldtop
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« Reply #14 on: November 03, 2020, 09:58:03 AM +0000 »

Tried all the cars very briefly. The only one I liked was the M3 so I'll go with that. Gear sets seem a bit odd so I'll have to have a play with those but generally it seems good out of the box. As for the others, Merc felt numb, Alfa was ok but I didn't even realise it was 4WD  Huh

My mate had a Cosi as his company car back in the day which he also had chipped. It was very rapid but at the end of the day it was a Ford Sierra! I hated it then and I still hate it now  tank
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