UKGTR NGT Sprint Masters - Valencia GP - Oct 31

[Simon Gymer]

Sorry Simon if you think I should have let you through after I totally screwed the last turn up but I managed to get it into 1st and get it pointing the right way. No warning either but I think GTR2 is a bit leniant on the C/T warnings.

Lol, heck no Baracus. I had to slow to be safe as you had spun, it's difficult predicting which way a car will slide in slow speed spins, so didn't just pile into the last corner (yes unlike Alonso I take care when yellows come out ). You got going very fast again and I saw you flash your lights ahead to say thanks, but there was no need. As MarkJ will testify I do like weaving around in people's mirrors to put them off to try and grab the spot, it was nothing more than that. I figured as you'd just made a mistake that I'd try and harry you a bit to see if you made another one in quick succession, but no, too good for that. 

[Aagramn]

Definitely, big improvement over the 360/911 dominated GTR races. Staring at the back end of yet another 360 was getting a bit old! A nice, neat solution though I've never felt penalising people switching was quite right before. Arguable either way but surely not neccessary now that the cars are more balanced.

The idea behind the penalty is to prevent drivers from making tactical switches to pick the best car for every track, taking a good handling car at the twisty tracks and something more powerful at the circuits with long straights. Not too keen on the penalty myself, but I understand the reasoning behind it. It's more of an issue if the GT2 stays in the NGT class.

I was off pace all night (only got the game this afternoon) but what did you think of the M3's ballast Aagramn? I lack experience in GTR 2 at the mo' but it felt tough in the twisty bits and then also struggled to pull away from everything but the TVR on the straights.

I think it's pretty close to most of the other cars. Over a race distance, 80kg may be a little too much for it, but it's difficult to say at this point. Other tracks may suit it better. It has 40bhp more than the RSR, but it's 70kg heavier before any ballast is added.

[Luis Branco]

I was hoping to have the new G25 wheel to race tonight but the EMS didn't was up to what I had expected. It was to have arrived today but it didn't and I paid extra for the EMS 24H service
Tomorrow is a National Holiday here in Portugal so no better luck until at least Thursday.
With my 6 year old Momo Force broken I still tried to race but I quickly saw that would be impossible. The wheel don't calibrate anymore, it has no centre spring force, loses FF and as the bad habit to try to turn by it self independently from to where I want to go.

Congrats to the winner and to all for a fantastic lap time grid for Valencia.

Hope to be in better shape for the following races.

[PaulW]

Definitely, big improvement over the 360/911 dominated GTR races. Staring at the back end of yet another 360 was getting a bit old! A nice, neat solution though I've never felt penalising people switching was quite right before. Arguable either way but surely not neccessary now that the cars are more balanced.

The idea behind the penalty is to prevent drivers from making tactical switches to pick the best car for every track, taking a good handling car at the twisty tracks and something more powerful at the circuits with long straights. Not too keen on the penalty myself, but I understand the reasoning behind it. It's more of an issue if the GT2 stays in the NGT class.

I'm not keen on it either. This is a piece of entertainment first and formost, I'd like to be free to enjoy the range of cars on offer without penalty. A 20% switch penalty does matter, contrary to the assertion in the announcement, if you're scrapping for points lower down the list because, though the loss of points will be less, you're still fighting for every single point you can get during a season that may see you only amass 12, for example.

I was off pace all night (only got the game this afternoon) but what did you think of the M3's ballast Aagramn? I lack experience in GTR 2 at the mo' but it felt tough in the twisty bits and then also struggled to pull away from everything but the TVR on the straights.

I think it's pretty close to most of the other cars. Over a race distance, 80kg may be a little too much for it, but it's difficult to say at this point. Other tracks may suit it better. It has 40bhp more than the RSR, but it's 70kg heavier before any ballast is added.

It's close yup. For the record, last night felt like it was 10Kg too heavy but it's impossible to say until it's been used on other tracks.

[Mark J]

Did anyone else suffer odd times over various sessions at Valencia? I would say at both races we've had here (fun race and last nights) the handling has altered dramatically for me compared to offline and online practise sessions. I know there is more pressure / tension / distractions on race night, but i was attempting to take corners that i knew off by heart during last nights session and the grip levels/handling were completely different. I set faster times in full race fuel on monday online praccy than i could get near in qually fuel last night 

With regards to ballast, whilst i agree its great to even the cars up and make it more interesting, aren't we altering the basic strengths and weaknesses of certain cars too much ? +50kg or  -50kg is making huge differences to each cars aspects. The TVR can seemingly now match the RSR on straights and yet you can throw it into a corner far easily than a Porsche so thereby making the Tiv a better car around the track as a whole. (just an example) 
Also those with +50kg or more are going to suffer serious tyre wear whilst those on -50 will have great tyres for long distances. Surely this will be a real problem in endurance events ?
TT reported his RSR tyres going off at mid race distance last night  and the beemer will suffer likewise, if not more.

Not bitching, just enquiring, though the fact my thoroughbred porker has been turned into a fat understeering cow is not amusing 

[Pedro[PL]]

I had the same feeling about handling between yesterday's qual and race. Even FF strength felt different.

To add my brick to weight discussion - I believe that each car has it's own strengths / weaknesses and it's not required to level them with ballast. I would rather find the quickest drivers ballasted as in real life. Also I agree, that +50k is huge!

I support the idea of racing single car make during the whole season as my concept of sim-racing is, that we should aim at making it as real as possible.

[Radius]

My RSR was just pathetic and i didnt have fun at all...guess i should just get used to it and now i cant change it with the new rule. id rather take the abarth tx 

I do think the ballast thingy is heading in the right direction but its been tested far too little

[PaulW]

That works for you Pedro, but not for everyone. To flip it around I wouldn't insist you change cars several times if you didn't want to. The point is a bit moot though and I understand the reasoning. It's never sat well with me but isn't going to be a show-stopper.

As for weight, wasn't it cool that we had a nice selection of cars last night? I think the weights just need a bit of tweaking but one track isn't going to be enough to be able to judge exactly how yet.

[Dave 'Gizmo' Gymer]

With regards to ballast, whilst i agree its great to even the cars up and make it more interesting, aren't we altering the basic strengths and weaknesses of certain cars too much ? +50kg or  -50kg is making huge differences to each cars aspects.

50kg is a lot less than the mass of a full tank of fuel.

To add my brick to weight discussion - I believe that each car has it's own strengths / weaknesses and it's not required to level them with ballast. I would rather find the quickest drivers ballasted as in real life. Also I agree, that +50k is huge!

Unfortunately the makers of GTR2 haven't given us that as a realistic option.

My RSR was just pathetic and i didnt have fun at all...guess i should just get used to it and now i cant change it with the new rule
id rather take the abarth tx

Thanks for the constructive criticism. Nobody is going to stop you changing car and to suggest so is at best disingenious.

I'm not keen on it either. This is a piece of entertainment first and formost, I'd like to be free to enjoy the range of cars on offer without penalty. A 20% switch penalty does matter, contrary to the assertion in the announcement, if you're scrapping for points lower down the list because, though the loss of points will be less, you're still fighting for every single point you can get during a season that may see you only amass 12, for example.

You have to make a tactical decision as to whether the 20% charge will be offset by the increased performance of the car you're switching to, but in the mid-pack and behind, driver ability makes far more difference than the choice of car (possibly excepting the 993 GT2 and the Vertigo, at opposite and extreme ends of the spectrum).

[Dave 'Gizmo' Gymer]

I support the idea of racing single car make during the whole season as my concept of sim-racing is, that we should aim at making it as real as possible.

That's not, and never has been, the aim of UKGTR and SRou. We've worked to create an environment which is centered around close, clean, fair racing for gentleman and lady racers. I have always shied us away from excessive realism where I felt it would interefere with our primary goal - the start procedure being a good example of that (although I note from TenTenths that more and more club racers in the real world are coming round to a preference for sensible rolling starts).

[Dave 'Gizmo' Gymer]

Did anyone else suffer odd times over various sessions at Valencia? I would say at both races we've had here (fun race and last nights) the handling has altered dramatically for me compared to offline and online practise sessions. I know there is more pressure / tension / distractions on race night, but i was attempting to take corners that i knew off by heart during last nights session and the grip levels/handling were completely different. I set faster times in full race fuel on monday online praccy than i could get near in qually fuel last night 

Yes, it felt quite different for me compared to my offline practice (which was also with the ballast pack). Track and ambient temperatures were up a little but I couldn't get within a second of my offline PB. Whether it's psychological, environmental or a 'feature' of playing online I don't know but, for me at least, the one thing it isn't is the ballast - because that's the only thing I didn't change!

[Aagramn]

Yes, it felt quite different for me compared to my offline practice (which was also with the ballast pack). Track and ambient temperatures were up a little but I couldn't get within a second of my offline PB. Whether it's psychological, environmental or a 'feature' of playing online I don't know but, for me at least, the one thing it isn't is the ballast - because that's the only thing I didn't change!

I noticed that as well. It may be a combination of a less grippy surface and lower frame rates.

[Truetom]

I felt almost offended yesterday when TVR was faster on a straight than RSR. I mean - what is the point of having different cars represented in game if we make stronger cars slower and weaker cars faster.     Ditch variety, I want to enjoy racing. Here. I want to enjoy racing here.  I did in Seasons 1,2,3 and I did in GTR2 fun races - Valencia included.    But not yesterday.    It felt struggling with the car at every entry and corner exit. Power exit was pushing the car out: not the rear, not the front - the whole car. I never saw it in GTR2 fun or in GTR1 races.

I had a setup for Valencia fun race with soft fronts and med rears. I experienced moderate understear in the last 5 minutes of the race - and with less trouble with slower cars on track my tyres would have lasted longer. Yesterday I had meds all around and the fronts felt cosiderably worn after 20 minutes, my times dropped for a second per lap and more later. Then the rears started to go also. Meds should last for 40 minutes, right?    Even if I had a wrong setup, meds should last 40 minutes.

Don't want to say anymore, maybe we could go through some more races and see the results - and the mood.  

TT  

[Simon Gymer]

The TVR can seemingly now match the RSR on straights and yet you can throw it into a corner far easily than a Porsche so thereby making the Tiv a better car around the track as a whole. (just an example) 

Err, simply not true Mark. I could only keep up with the 360s and RSR on the straights when directly in their slip stream and I certainly had no chance to pull out and overtake down the straights. Out of slipstream the RSR and 360 still had the advantage and you will see when it comes to the faster tracks that top end is limited by horsepower more than weight.

TT, I've no idea why you think the TVR was faster on the straights. Sitting behind you I can assure you it wasn't. I was really good under braking and out the first part of the corners but on the straights I had no chance of passing you.

[Truetom]

The TVR can seemingly now match the RSR on straights and yet you can throw it into a corner far easily than a Porsche so thereby making the Tiv a better car around the track as a whole. (just an example) 

Err, simply not true Mark. I could only keep up with the 360s and RSR on the straights when directly in their slip stream and I certainly had no chance to pull out and overtake down the straights. Out of slipstream the RSR and 360 still had the advantage and you will see when it comes to the faster tracks that top end is limited by horsepower more than weight.

Sorry, Shark, simply not true.    I was in your slipstream and couldn't even get alongside you. You can talk about a lousy corner exit all you want but I was inside your slipstream for half the s/f line and no go. 

TT