Urgent - 993 GT2 in NGT poll

[Dave 'Gizmo' Gymer]

Please read the following before voting!

1. Do not vote if you are not running or planning to run in an NGT championship. That means if you are running only in GT Sprint and/or the GT class in  Endurance, please do not vote.

2. If the GT2 is banned until the refresh, we will reinstate it at that time by either ballasting it heavily, or moving into the GT class and giving it a weight reduction to make it more competitive. Points already earned will stand but of course those who used it will have to use their free car change to move to another vehicle.

3. A updated pack before mid-season is not a viable proposition. We had enough trouble getting everyone to install it properly as it was.

4. This poll will run for 24 hours only. The issue is too urgent to delay a decision.

5. This thread is to be used for specific discussions about the two options presented only.

[longskater1969]

i feel that the gt2 is now the only competitive car there now the ballast pack has ruined the class

[Dave 'Gizmo' Gymer]

i feel that the gt2 is now the only competitive car there now the ballast pack has ruined the class

Which bit of "5. This thread is to be used for specific discussions about the two options presented only" did you struggle to understand?

If by "only competitive car" you mean "only car I can win in assuming hardly anyone else takes it", and by "ruined" you mean "reduced to a test of driver ability rather than car performance", then you are correct.

Those of us who didn't take it for the most part enjoyed closer racing than we ever had in GTR1.

[Carl Hart]

Yes i agree the GT2 is to fast for the NGT class. If it continues to run thats not a problem for me and i will still stick with the F360 but i do think the GT2 has an unfair advantage down the straights and therefore will become even more competitive on the faster circuits.

[Paul968]

The ballast settings were based to a significant degree on my laptimes in various cars, and I feel they are pretty fair over a range of tracks. Unfortunately I didn't test the GT2, because had I done so then it would have needed massively more ballast IMO. Please ban it ASAP.

[Jeffrey]

I voted for a ban, eventhough it gave me the first victory. It doesn't feel good if it's all due to the car IMO.

[Jamera]

Please read the following before voting!


2. If the GT2 is banned until the refresh, we will reinstate it at that time by either ballasting it heavily, or moving into the GT class and giving it a weight reduction to make it more competitive. Points already earned will stand but of course those who used it will have to use their free car change to move to another vehicle.

Why should we have use our "free" car change if it is banned? Surely that would be an enforced car change, It's not our fault if it wasn't checked properly is it?

If the car was not tested where did the 60KG ballast on it come from, was it a figure plucked from the air?

Is Paul's post correct? that the ballasting was based predominately on one members testing???

[Paul968]

I said 'to a significant degree', not predominantly.

[Dave 'Gizmo' Gymer]

Why should we have use our "free" car change if it is banned? Surely that would be an enforced car change, It's not our fault if it wasn't checked properly is it?

Would you prefer to lose the points from the first round? Thought not. You must've picked it knowing how much faster it was and that the disparity would be picked up, and I did put a warning in the race announcement that a car change penalty was highly likely. I'll wager you gained far more points in the first round than you will lose if you spend 20% to change car after round 2.

If the car was not tested where did the 60KG ballast on it come from, was it a figure plucked from the air?

Is Paul's post correct? that the ballasting was based predominately on one members testing???

The actual numbers we went with were based mostly on Paul's testing, however they were not very far away from those I had come up with independently, and various other mods tested specific pairs of cars back to back. The 993 GT2 got overlooked because it was so awful in GTR1 and was shoehorned into NGT this time aorund because of how far the RSR and (to a lesser extent) GTC had moved the goalposts.

We are, at the end of the day, only human, and for that I make no apology.

[PaulW]

I like how everything has gone all crazy post-race, it means we all care

Bottom line; are we all glad the season has started and we can finally enjoy some racing with GTR2?
There's a spike with the GT2 and a couple of humps with other cars but, generally, we had a nicely varied grid the other night and most cars are a viable option for any given race. The spikes can be addressed in due course with the mid-season update, and personally I hope the GT2 is binned, but it's gotta be worth getting at least a couple more rounds under our belt before we dismiss the ballast method out of hand.

[Munkez]

I'm no "Alien" driver and finished the Academy NGT race last night in a comfortable 10th position driving the F360 GTC.... I like the way it sounds, looks and handles and will stick with the car through out the championship.
To be honest, in GTR2 apart from a few of the GT cars, i haven't driven much else and was satisfied with the 1.37.9 lap time i achevied through the race with what i feel a was good/stable setup and solid driving....

Before seeing the post tonight i gave the 993 GT2 a blast around Valencia due it taking both the top spots in our Academy race and to be honest was very surprised to be turning in a 1.35.5 within 4 laps of leaving the pits on standard/stock set-ups 
Admittedly it felt a bit sketchy, but felt if i spent a bit of time on the set-up could certainly get this car down to a possible 1.34........... would have been alot closer to the top 3 in this little rocket.

I was even thinking of taking the points hit and changing car..... until now!!

I've voted to ban it as its really not a NGT class car yet.

[Simon Gymer]

In the other thread you intimated that if we ban GT2 you will consider a second free car swap. I think that would be nice considering the rules will have effectively been changed afterwards. I think it's unfair to force people to swap to another car and take away the same chance everyone else has of changing car when they would have no idea this could happen. Having said that, I doubt there will be many people swapping cars much anyway during the season, I'm certainly intending to stick with the TVR all season.

[Dave 'Gizmo' Gymer]

In the other thread you intimated that if we ban GT2 you will consider a second free car swap.

I will consider it after the poll closes, although the result of that will be for all the people who didn't take it to say that they should be able to use it without penalty for at least one race too.

[DynoDaz]

I think we should leave everything as it is until the mid-season update.  How are we going to improve the ballast pack if we start banning some of the cars?  We need all the cars to race over multiple tracks to get a true understanding of the changes needed.

[locutos ukgtr]

Why should we have use our "free" car change if it is banned? Surely that would be an enforced car change, It's not our fault if it wasn't checked properly is it?

Would you prefer to lose the points from the first round? Thought not. You must've picked it knowing how much faster it was and that the disparity would be picked up, and I did put a warning in the race announcement that a car change penalty was highly likely.

Yes Dave, you did say there would be a penalty for swapping cars, damn good idea I thought, but banning the GT2 doesnt mean I swapped cars, I have nothing to drive because you have changed the rules after the event. So what if we picked a car that was fast on the straight, its a pig everywhere else! You put the car in that catagory for people to choose and choose it they did. You cannot take away a car, then tell those who drove it they will have to use there free change to continue racing, thats like me parking up at the shops, you coming along and painting double yellow lines down the road, clamping my vehicle and telling me that this is now a zoned parking area, and by the way if you want to continue to drive you will have to pay the fine to get your car released! Now come on, be fair about this, ban the car by all means but either restart the season or allow us guys who drove it a free swap to have the advantage the rest of the league will have in being allowed to keep a free car change.

Will have to figure out how to do a poll to ban Ruskus, hes way to fast too....(only joking Ruskus mate)