UKGTL Season 21 The Top 12 Tracks - Donington Park - Oct 13

[phspok]

I use auto clutch for some cars, some I don't

[Wiltshire Tony]

It should be remembered that not all driver's are able bodied and therefore require certain aids to be available to them.

That is why we always have Auto-Clutch and Auto Gearbox available online at all times.

[Christian Dauger]

It should be remembered that not all driver's are able bodied and therefore require certain aids to be available to them.

That is why we always have Auto-Clutch and Auto Gearbox available online at all times.

yes, of course, for those who have difficulty this is normal.  For the others...

[Erling G-P]

Curious; did Donington GP really get voted among the top 12 tracks?    Personally I very much like the National layout, but absolutely loathe the GP version.

there are people, here, who use the automatic clutch...?

Yes, laughable as you may find it I always use auto clutch, apart from the starts.  Hate the shift sound without it, as it sounds like the cars have automatic transmissions.  An advantage is that it keeps the engine running if you spin off, so no time wasted on getting the engine started again.   Besides, it seems a lot of people are gaining time by not using it, so I hardly see the problem.

[Hristo Itchov]

Curious; did Donington GP really get voted among the top 12 tracks?    Personally I very much like the National layout, but absolutely loathe the GP version.

there are people, here, who use the automatic clutch...?

Yes, laughable as you may find it I always use auto clutch, apart from the starts.  Hate the shift sound without it, as it sounds like the cars have automatic transmissions.  An advantage is that it keeps the engine running if you spin off, so no time wasted on getting the engine started again.   Besides, it seems a lot of people are gaining time by not using it, so I hardly see the problem.

Depending on the car and track, sometimes turning it off is worth of up to 2-3 tenths a lap, and probably a lot more on a track like Nordschleife. You could lift up slightly on each upshift to keep it realistic and yet still get the advantage. It's what I usually do, similarly to how it's done in GPL.

Some cars just have the auto-clutch set to disengage for too long. I agree on losing the engine when spinning though, or making a pitstop. I have to constantly keep reminding myself to quickly press F2 if necessary, or at least press my clutch button (no 3 pedal set).

[Christian Dauger]

Curious; did Donington GP really get voted among the top 12 tracks?    Personally I very much like the National layout, but absolutely loathe the GP version.

there are people, here, who use the automatic clutch...?

Yes, laughable as you may find it I always use auto clutch, apart from the starts.  Hate the shift sound without it, as it sounds like the cars have automatic transmissions.  An advantage is that it keeps the engine running if you spin off, so no time wasted on getting the engine started again.   Besides, it seems a lot of people are gaining time by not using it, so I hardly see the problem.

Depending on the car and track, sometimes turning it off is worth of up to 2-3 tenths a lap, and probably a lot more on a track like Nordschleife. You could lift up slightly on each upshift to keep it realistic and yet still get the advantage. It's what I usually do, similarly to how it's done in GPL.

Some cars just have the auto-clutch set to disengage for too long. I agree on losing the engine when spinning though, or making a pitstop. I have to constantly keep reminding myself to quickly press F2 if necessary, or at least press my clutch button (no 3 pedal set).

Of course each one makes as it suits him best...

Personally, I don't even ask myself which solution will be the most efficient...it's the one that reproduces reality (or that comes closest to it) that I would systematically choose. And I try to drive as I would in reality.
It's unthinkable not to ease off the throttle to shift gears for example

Again, this is my preference and my way of looking at the race simulation

[Erling G-P]

Curious; did Donington GP really get voted among the top 12 tracks?    Personally I very much like the National layout, but absolutely loathe the GP version.

there are people, here, who use the automatic clutch...?

Yes, laughable as you may find it I always use auto clutch, apart from the starts.  Hate the shift sound without it, as it sounds like the cars have automatic transmissions.  An advantage is that it keeps the engine running if you spin off, so no time wasted on getting the engine started again.   Besides, it seems a lot of people are gaining time by not using it, so I hardly see the problem.

Depending on the car and track, sometimes turning it off is worth of up to 2-3 tenths a lap, and probably a lot more on a track like Nordschleife. You could lift up slightly on each upshift to keep it realistic and yet still get the advantage. It's what I usually do, similarly to how it's done in GPL.

Some cars just have the auto-clutch set to disengage for too long. I agree on losing the engine when spinning though, or making a pitstop. I have to constantly keep reminding myself to quickly press F2 if necessary, or at least press my clutch button (no 3 pedal set).

Of course each one makes as it suits him best...

Personally, I don't even ask myself which solution will be the most efficient...it's the one that reproduces reality (or that comes closest to it) that I would systematically choose. And I try to drive as I would in reality.
It's unthinkable not to ease off the throttle to shift gears for example

Again, this is my preference and my way of looking at the race simulation

Seems to me though that most drivers running without autoclutch are shifting without lifting, unless strictly necessary, so basically shifting without any clutch at all (and gaining an advantage).  Isn't that even less realistic? 

[Christian Dauger]

Seems to me though that most drivers running without autoclutch are shifting without lifting, unless strictly necessary, so basically shifting without any clutch at all (and gaining an advantage).  Isn't that even less realistic?  
[/quote]

yes, unthinkable in reality and unrealistic in sim 
I always thought that the risk of breakage or failure should be accentuated in GTL (and other sims too)

[Geoffers]

Seems to me though that most drivers running without autoclutch are shifting without lifting, unless strictly necessary, so basically shifting without any clutch at all (and gaining an advantage).  Isn't that even less realistic?  

yes, unthinkable in reality and unrealistic in sim  
I always thought that the risk of breakage or failure should be accentuated in GTL (and other sims too)

In Raceroom it is accentuated, if you run without auto clutch or don't use the clutch, you wreck the gearbox in a couple of laps.

[EvilClive]

Just to throw my 2 cents into the debate re clutches/revs etc

If there is one thing that I have found consistently different between GPL and GTL it is the gearchange/clutch/revs issue.
 
In GPL a driver learns very early that speedshifting ( i.e. upshifting without lifting off the gas ) will inevitably blow your engine, similarly downshifting too early and allowing the car's momentum to over rev the engine ends in the same way. The red line on a GPL tacho is exactly that...it is a rev limit and a line that you do not want to cross. Therefore top end gear ratios are always set to avoid hitting max revs at the end of a long straight.

In GTL the red light appears to indicate that the rev limiter is in action, so illuminating that light simply indicates that the engine is being protected both on upshifts and downshifts ( I will ignore the implications of downshifting too early and locking the rear wheels etc ). I notice that many drivers in GTL are happy to run their engines up against the rev limiter with 30% of the main straight still to complete. That just scares me lol!

Whether a driver uses ( or even has ) a clutch pedal is a matter of personal choice/budget. The use of no clutch, auto clutch, lifting off the gas etc is also a personal choice. I can see ( and I confess to having done it myself in GTL ) when the red mist descends, the temptation to clamp the gas pedal to the metal and just ram the gears through the gate can sometimes be irresistible   , but not very realistic .

99% of the time my GPL conditioning prevents me from seeing the red, rev limiter light as I instinctively feel I am going to damage the engine, despite the engine health value on the HUD telling me that the mechanicals are unbreakable. As a result I probably upshift too early ( just before the red light) or run higher ratios and downshift too late.

IMHO the condition of the engine/mechanicals should be affected by driver behaviour on track, so that looking after your car and reaching the flag becomes part of the strategy?

[Daz9]

To be fair, some cars are a little fragile, but not as much as in GPL, no. From memory the GT40 does not like to be revved out constantly, I seem to recall blowing the motor to bits at an oval circuit in the past....For the main part the cars do take the abuse though. I almost see this in the same vein as the amount of smashing into the kerb we can do in them, as that is probably not quite bang on either.

At the end of the day, you have to operate as the sim does I always think. I have recently ruined a few races online in RRE by breaking the front suspension in a way that would never have happened in GTL, you have to adapt to the platform. For me, it is no auto clutch, I can feel it just gets in the way when cornering and adds a little fuzziness to the reaction of the car. The shift speed didn't seem very different either on or off from memory, but it is well over 10 years since I ran with it on.

[PaulV]

I will be present ! 

someone could post a setup, so I can compare it with mine, which is very bad. 
the settings are different from gpl's, I think 

philippe

Hi Phillipe,

Glad you got things sorted. Hope to see you and the other guys on Wednesday too.

[Hristo Itchov]

Just did some more laps and experimented with the setup. 2 new versions uploaded to the online database:

v2 - easier to drift smoothly, with light steering and predictable rearend, but a bit of understeer in slower corners unless you apply more steering lock. Best time with this one was about 44.6

v3 - softer anti-roll bars, more lock on diff power, more negative front toe, plus some other changes, making i precise and quick, with smooth acceleration out of the slow corners. This one was very much to my liking, though perhaps I'd try even less rear camber (by less I mean more positive) next time, to counter some mid-corner understeer. A new PB with this one of 43.9

I also experimented with longer gears to use 1st for the slowest corners, but it doesn't work well. There's just too much of a gap between 1st and 2nd gear, making the car snap oversteer when you shift down. Otherwise the longer 2nd, 3rd and 4th felt nice in all other corners, but 1st gear just ruins it.

[Daz9]

I'm not far away then, 1.44.0 is my best so far, short gears were by far the favourite for me. I'll upload the setup later for those that would like to give it a whirl. At that pace the engine will not last though, guaranteed.....I switched on Auto clutch just to see the effect, costs a couple of tenths but does reduce engine wear quite a lot for me, but I still think it'll blow in my hands if at full pace as 3 or 4% was being taken, so already I can see it will be as all about trying to manage the car whilst maintaining the laptime....I had forgotten how much I don't like the GT40!

[Geoffers]

The engine health should not be a problem because I think Tony does not enable mechanical failures.

No where near you guys, in the mid 1.45s. Always felt the GT40 was one of the most disappointing cars in GTL, horrible understeer on corner entry & loads of oversteer on corner exit. Would probably not have bothered with this race, but I'm even less keen on the alternatives this week.