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  • L21TTTT Spa: December 15, 2021
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Author Topic: UKGTL Season 21 The Top 12 Tracks - Spa - Dec 15  (Read 667 times)
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Erling G-P
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« Reply #15 on: December 16, 2021, 04:13:03 PM +0000 »

Having watched the replays of both starts, I can see no problems  Huh  (Apart perhaps from the cars rolling, but this can be mitigated by keeping it in neutral, and only pressing clutch and shift into 1st once the countdown is well under way)

The problems causing the restarts were all much later on the first laps, and I can't see a rolling start helping with preventing this.

Hristo's qual lap time yesterday was even more surreal than usual.  When you're on the edge of what you can do, seeing him lap 8 seconds quicker, is way beyond sobering.  Tried his provided setup - thanks - but found it near undriveable, surprisingly. Car was way too nervous and oversteery for me to handle, so makes his speed seem even more incomprehensible
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Dimitar Dulichki
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« Reply #16 on: December 16, 2021, 04:24:51 PM +0000 »

Actually Erling, I was outside the circuit and there was no coming back, Also Daz and someone were victims of my mistake and I am sure they had a ton of damage.
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Erling G-P
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« Reply #17 on: December 16, 2021, 04:28:58 PM +0000 »

Actually Erling, I was outside the circuit and there was no coming back, Also Daz and someone were victims of my mistake and I am sure they had a ton of damage.

Yes, but that wasn't at the start?  I saw you hit the stone wall and take out Daz, but that was at the start of the long straight
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Dimitar Dulichki
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« Reply #18 on: December 16, 2021, 04:47:06 PM +0000 »

Yes, but on Lap 1 of 14.
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Erling G-P
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« Reply #19 on: December 16, 2021, 04:58:22 PM +0000 »

Yes, but on Lap 1 of 14.

Yes and I fail to see how a rolling start could have prevented this?
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Dimitar Dulichki
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« Reply #20 on: December 16, 2021, 05:19:23 PM +0000 »

The idea was the rolling start to begin after that corner.
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Erling G-P
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« Reply #21 on: December 16, 2021, 05:26:49 PM +0000 »

The idea was the rolling start to begin after that corner.

Hmmm, I see...  But then the 2nd incident, starting with Hristo, collecting me & everyone behind us, was further down the track.   Maybe just urge a bit of caution, especially on the 1st lap, with cold tyres - no need to win a 14-lap race on the 1st lap..
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Daz9
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« Reply #22 on: December 16, 2021, 05:36:29 PM +0000 »

If nothing else it gives an appreciation of how dangerous it was to race around circuits like these in cars like these.....
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Hristo Itchov
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« Reply #23 on: December 17, 2021, 04:42:40 AM +0000 »

Yes, but on Lap 1 of 14.

Yes and I fail to see how a rolling start could have prevented this?

No, you're right, some of the incidents wouldn't have been helped out by a rolling start and it's also why I wasn't expecting a 3rd restart after my off, but then because it caused others to crash, it made sense. My comments about the rolling start was mainly because of the 2nd start and just a suggestion in general with cars like this one.

As for my setup and lap time, it really was (similar to the hill climb event on Monday) down to experience with the track (I must have lapped it thousands of times in GPL) and the car handling very similar to GPL cars (despite it being a different sim). It's all about pedals control (especially throttle) with this car, to make it turn against its natural understeer / lack of grip. It's basically using the excessive power to push it forward instead of letting it drift to the side (which is what happens when you just lift up), so early braking and then throttle up all the way, well before the apex on many of the corners.

Here's my 3:06.5 cropped as highlights from my stream, you can see what I mean (with Dimitar talking to himself because I didn't set up my microphone right in OBS lol):

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1235663094

Lost about 2 tenths at one place, but it felt pretty much on the limit.
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Erling G-P
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« Reply #24 on: December 17, 2021, 08:17:36 AM +0000 »

The 2nd start looks weird in my replay - I'm the only one moving, driving straight through the cars ahead of me.  In the race, I couldn't see any other cars at all, wondering why I was alone on the grid/track, so something was obviously wrong.

Thanks for the explanation & video; will watch it later and possibly see if I can apply the technique you mention - maybe that requires the 'lively' setup you provided?
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Hristo Itchov
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« Reply #25 on: December 18, 2021, 04:51:27 AM +0000 »

Thanks for the explanation & video; will watch it later and possibly see if I can apply the technique you mention - maybe that requires the 'lively' setup you provided?

Yes, you need the car to rotate without having to turn the steering much, so you can carry more speed into the corners and also accelerate early (4 wheel drift). It's mostly about playing with the throttle. I guess it's more difficult if you're using proper right foot braking, blipping and manual clutch. I could never do it like that  surrender
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Erling G-P
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« Reply #26 on: December 22, 2021, 01:52:07 PM +0000 »

Thanks for the explanation & video; will watch it later and possibly see if I can apply the technique you mention - maybe that requires the 'lively' setup you provided?

Yes, you need the car to rotate without having to turn the steering much, so you can carry more speed into the corners and also accelerate early (4 wheel drift). It's mostly about playing with the throttle. I guess it's more difficult if you're using proper right foot braking, blipping and manual clutch. I could never do it like that  surrender

Finally got round to trying this. Conclusion is that it requires a technique, skill and/or talent I simply don't pocess, or would require much much more practice to master.  With the loose setup, the car wallows from left to right all the time, even when just going in a straight line. Makes me fearful of getting too close to the track edges and getting trapped by those gravel strips (which happens repeatedly anyway), meaning I can't exploit the entire track.  The wallowing also makes it unstable under braking, with the rear often breaking away, so I have to compensate, losing time.  With power-on into, through and out of corners, it's mostly a toss between too much powerslide, often spinning, or the car pushing wide, off track and into those slowing gravel strips.  I just can't control it precisely enough.

Have to devote time to practice for tonight's race, so will have to let this rest for now.
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Hristo Itchov
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« Reply #27 on: December 22, 2021, 10:49:26 PM +0000 »

Thanks for the explanation & video; will watch it later and possibly see if I can apply the technique you mention - maybe that requires the 'lively' setup you provided?

Yes, you need the car to rotate without having to turn the steering much, so you can carry more speed into the corners and also accelerate early (4 wheel drift). It's mostly about playing with the throttle. I guess it's more difficult if you're using proper right foot braking, blipping and manual clutch. I could never do it like that  surrender

Finally got round to trying this. Conclusion is that it requires a technique, skill and/or talent I simply don't pocess, or would require much much more practice to master.  With the loose setup, the car wallows from left to right all the time, even when just going in a straight line. Makes me fearful of getting too close to the track edges and getting trapped by those gravel strips (which happens repeatedly anyway), meaning I can't exploit the entire track.  The wallowing also makes it unstable under braking, with the rear often breaking away, so I have to compensate, losing time.  With power-on into, through and out of corners, it's mostly a toss between too much powerslide, often spinning, or the car pushing wide, off track and into those slowing gravel strips.  I just can't control it precisely enough.

Have to devote time to practice for tonight's race, so will have to let this rest for now.

For sure it's mostly down to technique than anything else, probably the transitions between turning and pressing the pedals. The wallowing sounds like what Dimitar complained about, so I wonder if his setup may suit you better.

It could be that you're turning too much (for the steering lock of the setup?) or too sharply. I usually try to make minimal movements with the steering. Also if you turn and at the same time lift up the throttle, the frontend would bite significantly and rotate the car too much. Another reason could be that you're actually not turning enough to produce a bit of understeer at the front and then only use the throttle to control how much the differential opens. Yet another reason is that you're not using any throttle under braking to compensate (I'm left foot braking and using throttle a lot sometimes, GPL habit...). All that about corner entry.

For corner exit, it has to be set up properly before the apex, with the car not going sideways too much, otherwise it would either understeer or snap oversteer. Again, I try to make it so there's minimum amount of steering involved once I press the throttle harder. In the transition before that, I play with the throttle a bit to search for the limit of traction.

I don't think it's a technique that is useful for all cars, in fact it can be detrimental with some cars, but it helps to have it in your arsenal.  Grin
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Erling G-P
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« Reply #28 on: December 23, 2021, 12:30:52 PM +0000 »

Thanks for the added details Hristo. It definitely sounds like it's a very delicate balance that needs to be struck.  I left foot brake as well, and depending on car, may keep some throttle during braking, to keep the car under control - did that all race yesterday with the Datsun.  May need to try it as well with the Ferrari, but doubt it will be enough to solve my problems with mastering this.
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