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Author Topic: Sunday Night Series Changing of the Guard  (Read 440 times)
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SRW
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« on: June 07, 2022, 08:52:50 PM +0100 »

If you have been following the Sunday night series recently you will have observed that the numbers have steadily decreased over the last year or so, we now usually get just 2 or 3 people on the grid most weeks. This may be partly down to me as i like modern GT's and Touring cars (which no one seems to want to race here anymore). I am thinking about stopping organising the Sunday night series and letting someone else take over or possibly running a reduced schedule if no one else is interested in taking over. We have written instructions for doing the admin side of things on the website and there are several people who know how to setup the server for races. If you are interested in having a go or want more details about what is involved please post in this thread or message me or any of the admins for more details.
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spanner
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« Reply #1 on: June 10, 2022, 09:23:08 PM +0100 »

Definately an end of an era.

The first sunday night race i did here was on Jan 20th 2008...And my sundays have been reserved ever since, sundays are going to feel different.

https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=4445#event515

Back then simracing was a much smaller community, much limited titles to play so kept people interested, people knew each other, knew who they would be directly racing and compared against.

Peoples hobbies change, they grow up, married/ other halves.... real life creeps in and takes over, a niche hobby will always struggle.

Now, simracing is massively broader, closer to mainstream... but thinned out....multiple titles, much more expensive, more hardware, so many more places to race them, all pretending to offer something new. 

People come and go, some stay for a little some for longer... But now we all want different things.... classics, modern, short races, long races, GT,s single seaters....

People dont seems to want organised, strict racing etiquette, just look at the public servers in ACC, AC even iRacing..
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goldtop
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« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2022, 09:38:01 AM +0100 »

Thanks for your efforts here Stephen and for sticking at it for so long. Not sure what can be done to move things on, you've tried using different car types to GT/sports but nothing has really taken off. As Spanner says, people move on and things get diluted as things change and more options become available.

One thing I mentioned a while back was looking into linking up with simracing.gp

https://www.simracing.gp/

I've no idea if it would work for us or what you have to do to link our league there but it might be worth investigating. Leagues that use it still have their own communities with websites/forums/discords for discussion but the platform handles all the signups and the results data. The main benefit is that it would make our little corner of the simracing world more visible which might then attract more drivers.
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SRW
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« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2022, 12:34:45 PM +0100 »

Definately an end of an era.

The first sunday night race i did here was on Jan 20th 2008...And my sundays have been reserved ever since, sundays are going to feel different.

https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=4445#event515

Back then simracing was a much smaller community, much limited titles to play so kept people interested, people knew each other, knew who they would be directly racing and compared against.

Peoples hobbies change, they grow up, married/ other halves.... real life creeps in and takes over, a niche hobby will always struggle.

Now, simracing is massively broader, closer to mainstream... but thinned out....multiple titles, much more expensive, more hardware, so many more places to race them, all pretending to offer something new. 

People come and go, some stay for a little some for longer... But now we all want different things.... classics, modern, short races, long races, GT,s single seaters....

People dont seems to want organised, strict racing etiquette, just look at the public servers in ACC, AC even iRacing..

The good old days of GTR2, the game that got me hooked on simracing! cant believe how big the grids were then  Sad
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SRW
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« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2022, 12:41:22 PM +0100 »

Thanks for your efforts here Stephen and for sticking at it for so long. Not sure what can be done to move things on, you've tried using different car types to GT/sports but nothing has really taken off. As Spanner says, people move on and things get diluted as things change and more options become available.

One thing I mentioned a while back was looking into linking up with simracing.gp

https://www.simracing.gp/

I've no idea if it would work for us or what you have to do to link our league there but it might be worth investigating. Leagues that use it still have their own communities with websites/forums/discords for discussion but the platform handles all the signups and the results data. The main benefit is that it would make our little corner of the simracing world more visible which might then attract more drivers.

Thanks GT, i have enjoyed organising the races over the years, a good way to get to race the cars and tracks i like the most!

With regards to the www.simracing.gp, we have got nothing to lose as no one but me and spanner turn up regularly on a Sunday anymore. If no one else wants to take over the Sunday night slot i might look into it.
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IbnSolmyr
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« Reply #5 on: June 16, 2022, 06:51:59 PM +0100 »

Thanks for your efforts here Stephen and for sticking at it for so long. Not sure what can be done to move things on, you've tried using different car types to GT/sports but nothing has really taken off. As Spanner says, people move on and things get diluted as things change and more options become available.

One thing I mentioned a while back was looking into linking up with simracing.gp

https://www.simracing.gp/

I've no idea if it would work for us or what you have to do to link our league there but it might be worth investigating. Leagues that use it still have their own communities with websites/forums/discords for discussion but the platform handles all the signups and the results data. The main benefit is that it would make our little corner of the simracing world more visible which might then attract more drivers.

Thanks GT, i have enjoyed organising the races over the years, a good way to get to race the cars and tracks i like the most!

With regards to the www.simracing.gp, we have got nothing to lose as no one but me and spanner turn up regularly on a Sunday anymore. If no one else wants to take over the Sunday night slot i might look into it.

Hello SRW and Spanner.

I personnally close to never got into your events only because I'm not interested in modern driving. My dedicated simracing time is for classic racing.  Smiley

Jos and I read about this thread and though we feel a bit sorry that you don't get nice grids anymore, we were thinking about possibly taking over if ever you really let the guard. But this would be quite of a commitment as you much better know than me !  laugh

On a side note, I was very interested in simracing.gp when it was created (and still today) as it looks like it's what simracing communities were needing to further go on the uniting path.
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« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2022, 10:45:51 PM +0100 »

Like Maxime, I also dedicate myself only to classic cars and I don't like modern ones, which is why I have never raced in Sunday races.

I totally agree with Spanner: the world of simulation has changed. Now there is so much stuff, too much stuff and paradoxically the players have become more "superficial". I notice the same in the air sim. It is really difficult to organize something and if you can do it, it is only thanks to the "old guard" (people who started with the few simulators that were there 20 years ago).
There wasn't a real generational change. At least that's my feeling.

As for the modern stuff, I think a handful of players are looking more at ACC or maybe some other title, than AC.
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SRW
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« Reply #7 on: June 17, 2022, 10:09:05 PM +0100 »

Thanks for your efforts here Stephen and for sticking at it for so long. Not sure what can be done to move things on, you've tried using different car types to GT/sports but nothing has really taken off. As Spanner says, people move on and things get diluted as things change and more options become available.

One thing I mentioned a while back was looking into linking up with simracing.gp

https://www.simracing.gp/

I've no idea if it would work for us or what you have to do to link our league there but it might be worth investigating. Leagues that use it still have their own communities with websites/forums/discords for discussion but the platform handles all the signups and the results data. The main benefit is that it would make our little corner of the simracing world more visible which might then attract more drivers.

Thanks GT, i have enjoyed organising the races over the years, a good way to get to race the cars and tracks i like the most!

With regards to the www.simracing.gp, we have got nothing to lose as no one but me and spanner turn up regularly on a Sunday anymore. If no one else wants to take over the Sunday night slot i might look into it.

Hello SRW and Spanner.

I personnally close to never got into your events only because I'm not interested in modern driving. My dedicated simracing time is for classic racing.  Smiley

Jos and I read about this thread and though we feel a bit sorry that you don't get nice grids anymore, we were thinking about possibly taking over if ever you really let the guard. But this would be quite of a commitment as you much better know than me !  laugh

On a side note, I was very interested in simracing.gp when it was created (and still today) as it looks like it's what simracing communities were needing to further go on the uniting path.

Hi IbnSolmyr,

If you want more info about what is involved in organising races i can advise you. You will need to set up the races on the forum and set up the server template. What can swallow up a lot of time is trying out car/circuit combos to decide what to race. I must admit most of the time I just come up with tracklists without trying them out as i dont have the spare time to do it.

We have written instructions to setup the race threads on the forum and the server template is not particularly hard to setup (I am no IT expert) and PICNIC is very knowledgeable and helpful on the server stuff.

If you want to know anymore about it let me know. In the meantime i will look into this www.simracing.gp
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FullMetalGasket
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« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2022, 10:42:25 AM +0100 »

To put 'A lot of time' in perspective - The Skoda series probably ate about 40+ hours of my time listing, checking, and then racing the the AI to come up with the track list, and then creating events and posts.
I would say that is average for my 'bigger' series.
Prototype potluck can be classed as an extension of my Grp C project - which I started trying to work out back in 2020.....

With that said you do get the advantage of running what interests you against real people, which makes up for a of of the effort.
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spanner
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« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2022, 12:03:33 PM +0100 »

And there you have two contrasts! Its as much effort as you want to put into organising it and running it.
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IbnSolmyr
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« Reply #10 on: June 20, 2022, 01:08:43 PM +0100 »

Yes I understand that this can be very time-consuming of course.  Roll Eyes

I have to tell that I'm usually away from home during several weeks right at the moment (not this year) and around the end of august until mid-september so that I wasn't in the idea to try to ride the horse right now. Jos and I started to talk and think about it as a 'partnership' ! If by any chance Tim would like to get involved in too, or anyone else, I guess that would be pretty valued too..

Some questions pop up in my mind :

- How many drivers can/want to drive these sunday evenings ? At what time exactly ? Evenings or late afternoons ?
- How many drivers would be interested in a classic style driving only ? (H-pattern, no ABS, etc..)
- What are the exact rules regarding content ? I know ripped content is forbidden, but any other details to know ?
- What kind of format are people most likely to enjoy ?
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SRW
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« Reply #11 on: June 22, 2022, 01:12:37 PM +0100 »

FYI - There will be no race this coming Sunday (26/6/22) as i will not be available for server duties
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goldtop
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« Reply #12 on: June 22, 2022, 04:17:37 PM +0100 »


- How many drivers can/want to drive these sunday evenings ? At what time exactly ? Evenings or late afternoons ?
- How many drivers would be interested in a classic style driving only ? (H-pattern, no ABS, etc..)
- What are the exact rules regarding content ? I know ripped content is forbidden, but any other details to know ?
- What kind of format are people most likely to enjoy ?

You're likely to get a lot of different opinions on this so here's mine...

Sundays are always good for me except when I'm watching the live streamed IMSA series.

I'm always up for racing classic cars (as long as I can still use my paddle shifts!) but I'm only interested in race cars, road cars just don't do it for me. We already have Wednesdays though.

Regards content, scratch made mods are fine here whether they are payed or freely available. For free mods, if Race Department host them it generally means that the mod has not been ripped and is ok to use. Payed mods such as those from United Racing Design, Race Sim Studio, Virtual Racing Cars, DRM Modding Team are all fine to use if drivers are happy to pay for them.... good luck with that!

Format, medium length races seem to be about right.... 40 minutes, although I personally prefer longer races with a bit of strategy if we have enough drivers.

I've given up racing here on Sundays recently because of the lack of interest and have started racing elsewhere. I'll support it again if there is enough interest.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2022, 04:20:21 PM +0100 by goldtop » Logged

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IbnSolmyr
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« Reply #13 on: June 22, 2022, 05:15:21 PM +0100 »


You're likely to get a lot of different opinions on this so here's mine...

And I thank you for this. Smiley

I'm always up for racing classic cars (as long as I can still use my paddle shifts!) but I'm only interested in race cars, road cars just don't do it for me. We already have Wednesdays though.

What, you GT don't have a H-pattern shifter  Shocked May I ask if it is because you don't want to drive this way or any other reason ? And do you need auto-clutch then or you use the left pedal (if there is) ?
About race or road cars, I hear you but regarding classics the difference sometimes is rather subtle..

Regards content, scratch made mods are fine here whether they are payed or freely available. For free mods, if Race Department host them it generally means that the mod has not been ripped and is ok to use. Payed mods such as those from United Racing Design, Race Sim Studio, Virtual Racing Cars, DRM Modding Team are all fine to use if drivers are happy to pay for them.... good luck with that!

Yes I get this, but sometimes mods are grabbed anywhere (youtube links i.e.) so my question is more : what is the rule if there is no evidence that a mod is a rip ?

Format, medium length races seem to be about right.... 40 minutes, although I personally prefer longer races with a bit of strategy if we have enough drivers.

I've given up racing here on Sundays recently because of the lack of interest and have started racing elsewhere. I'll support it again if there is enough interest.

Well noted.  Smiley
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goldtop
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« Reply #14 on: June 22, 2022, 06:13:03 PM +0100 »

Regarding H shifter, just personal choice. I tried it for a while but after years of driving sims with paddles it just felt awkward and the shifter itself always felt like a toy compared with a real car. I use the clutch for starts and lift throttle when I change gear when racing classic cars and autoclutch isn't enabled. Using autoclutch actually has quite a big speed disadvantage in AC because of the built in delay which is generally perceived to make up for the advantage of using paddles. Might explain why I'm usually a bit more competetive when I race modern paddle shift cars.

Not sure about specific rules regarding how ripped mods are determined here but if the mods are freely available at RD I believe they are generally considered to be ok to use. As for payed mods, the studios I mentioned are legitimate but there are of course plenty of modders who will take money for ripped content.

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