NGT Sprint Cup - Season 1, Round 1, Barcelona - July 12

[PaulW]

I have not seen the incident, and to be honest I probably won't bother watching. I'm certainly not saying that Dave should get or not get a penalty (I can't having not seen it), and/or anything else. Nor am I saying that letting someone through after an incident, or taking a stop/go sould be given no wieght or get them off completely. As with virtually everthing there is no black and white, only shades of gray.

Just what are you saying then? you should have been a lawyer

The current system will be cool for my money. Sure, a couple of the drivers competing are doing the judging also, but it would be blindingly obvious if a dodgy decision was made on an incident involving those drivers so for that reason alone I don't think it'll happen. The voluntery stop/go was a good demonstration of the spirit of fair play at UKGTR. Can't promise to do the same myself though

[Rob Bywater "Kerb Crawlers"]

I quickly close the gap to Iain which takes me about three laps, at which point when I get really close there's a Vertigo parked right before Campsa, Iain goes to the left taking a bit of grass and a few sparks, I think briefly about going right but I'm really focused on Iain's rear so follow him skimming the grass around the Vertigo, thankfully its not moving very fast (if at all, probably noticed us) so it doesn't cost either of us anything....

Yep, sorry Fozz and Iain, that was me in the Vertigo. Id spun off and was just rejoining when I heard and saw the pair of you approaching me. My thought process was that as I was on the racing line I should just wait until you both clear me, rather than trying to quickly move over to the other side of the track as that could have caused mayhem.

I think Im right in saying that slower cars should keep to the racing line and it is up to the faster car to move around - not sure if it was the right thing to do in this case as I was stationary, but that was my thinking, and fortunately like you say, it didnt cause any major problem.

I tried throughout the race to allow faster cars to pass, and by enlarge, without seeing the replay yet, I think I did that part ok (famous last words). Just gotta work on being one of those faster cars 

Does this count as an incident to be logged?

Apart from the above I had a great time. Its quite a feeling of tension I experience when I see someone approaching from behind (ooer missus), hands tighten their grip and palms start sweating under the pressure!

I had a steady start and was lapping consistently until 4th or 5th lap when I was taken out by a black 360 on the entrance to Repsol, shoving me across the track into the now familiar sand! Got back going again and after one or two skirmishes beached the thing with about 2 laps left, meaning I had to retire!

Had a great time though and cant wait for next tuesday - has anyone got directions to Magny-Cours?

Cheers

Rob

[fozzmeister]

I have not seen the incident, and to be honest I probably won't bother watching. I'm certainly not saying that Dave should get or not get a penalty (I can't having not seen it), and/or anything else. Nor am I saying that letting someone through after an incident, or taking a stop/go sould be given no wieght or get them off completely. As with virtually everthing there is no black and white, only shades of gray.

Just what are you saying then? you should have been a lawyer

The current system will be cool for my money. Sure, a couple of the drivers competing are doing the judging also, but it would be blindingly obvious if a dodgy decision was made on an incident involving those drivers so for that reason alone I don't think it'll happen. The voluntery stop/go was a good demonstration of the spirit of fair play at UKGTR. Can't promise to do the same myself though

I'm not saying the system is poor at the moment, or that I or anybody else can come up with anything better. I'm merely saying that any system has weaknesses. for me if I were out of the points the chance of me doing a stop go would be far greater than if i were battling for points, And to be honest if I spotted I was going to slip further in a race (engine, fuel, tires, blah blah) I would definetely be doing a stop/go in the hope of lessening the impact of any penatly while costing myself as little as possible.

Likewise If somebody is severely underachieving compared to thier normal pace, I would not be happy with the court being more lenient because they did a stop go, particularly if it were somebody who is usually in the points, and is out of them when the incident occured.

It is a strange idea as well "Mr Judge, I held up Cleethorpes Post Office, but afterwards I cut off my little finger afterwards so I think we are even now".

On the other hand If I'm battling for first with someone (unlikely granted) and get nurfed out, the cost of somebody doing a stop/go is very high for them.

As I said, nothing but shades of gray

I did like the public shame of Dave's incident reports on one side (this is also a form of punishment for mistakes, although prolly not intended as such), and on the other side I liked documented evidence that you were nurfed out by XYZ and it was not your fault.

I hope this isn't taken as me wanting blood for other peoples mistakes. Truth be known I'm going to be one of those taking heat after Barcelona.

Fozzmeister

[Iain]

It is a strange idea as well "Mr Judge, I held up Cleethorpes Post Office, but afterwards I cut off my little finger afterwards so I think we are even now".

I'm not really getting involved properly as its all way above me and im quite happy to use the system on the site but!

the real life equivilant is not?


elo mr judge i help up the post office but i plead guilty so let me off a bit

innit?

[fozzmeister]

Yep, sorry Fozz and Iain, that was me in the Vertigo. Id spun off and was just rejoining when I heard and saw the pair of you approaching me. My thought process was that as I was on the racing line I should just wait until you both clear me, rather than trying to quickly move over to the other side of the track as that could have caused mayhem.

You made the right call there, the fact that I didn't know which way to go is definately means you did, Sure it cost me, and it cost Iain, but actually the guys up the road were miles infront, so actually it cost nobody 

I think Im right in saying that slower cars should keep to the racing line and it is up to the faster car to move around - not sure if it was the right thing to do in this case as I was stationary, but that was my thinking, and fortunately like you say, it didnt cause any major problem.

Yeh, your right, It's always dangerous to be slow on the racing line, but if the line is next to the edge where your off the road, you have to cross it. There was no way you could have known we were coming until you saw us.

Does this count as an incident to be logged?

I won't be, I also doubt Iain will (he's logged an incident between both of us already), watch your email and if it comes up then log it too. Personally  from my view I don't see how I (or anybody else) could complain.

Fozzmeister

[Iain]

im not reporting it

i only reported the one of me and fozz cuz there was contact and i thought we were supposed to o.O

[fozzmeister]

I'm not really getting involved properly as its all way above me and im quite happy to use the system on the site but!

the real life equivilant is not?

elo mr judge i help up the post office but i plead guilty so let me off a bit

innit?

Good point Tis up to the judge to listen or not.

Fozzmeister

[Paul968]

The incident to log is the one with the black 360.

[fozzmeister]

im not reporting it

Thar you go Rob.

i only reported the one of me and fozz cuz there was contact and i thought we were supposed to o.O

Certainly I expected you to. What does o.O mean btw?

[Rob Bywater "Kerb Crawlers"]

Thanks Fozz and Iain, and yes Paul I will be reporting that incident, just about to view the replay.

Cheers

Rob

[Paul968]

The point about reducing a penalty is that the penalty is given partly to take away what was gained by a bad move. If a driver gives away several places voluntarily then there is less need to take something away. Think of it as community service We would much rather that drivers did this as a) it shows the other driver you accept responsibility and b) it gives the other driver their rightful place on the track back again.

Having said all that, the penalty system has not been finalised, so watch this space.

[Iain]

Certainly I expected you to. What does o.O mean btw?

its my im not sure face o.O

i dunno, i mostly put it out of habit now, a bit like :-s i guess

[/spam]

I hope the incident with the black 360 wasnt my black 360 :-|

edit : checked it wasnt me

[PaulW]

It's like you're opening one eye more than the other 0_o

I take your point about the lessening of post-race penalties if you took a stop/go when in a point scoring position vs nowhere near the points and therefore nowhere near loosing as much. I think taking a voluntery stop/go is a worthy and honourable thing to do but open to exploitation as described by Fozz above.

There needs to be a better way that UKGTR could use, perhaps the nudger could get moved back on the grid by the same number of places as the nudgee lost at the next race?
Except we'd have to do that manually and that could cause chaos on the formation lap. The nudgee could loose position(s) in the final points calculation at the end of the race?

[Paul968]

It's complicated, and something we've been through and refined over many years in UKGPL. The problem is that we need to fit in with the Filsca system at the moment, which is throwing a few spanners in the works. As I've said before, there will probably also be a system which deters repeated bad driving, which is what we are really trying to achieve. There will certainly not be any way for a driver to easily drive badly without punishment. It's a bit pointless speculating about loopholes when you don't know what the system will be yet, so I suggest we leave this discussion until things are firmed up.

Paul

[Jamera]

Well it seems it was fully incident packed race last night!!! I was fullly intending to take part, but me being me managed to get heat stroke yesterday putting up a new fence and spent the entire night talking to god on the big white telephone  


I Will be trying to race tonight in the GT Sprint, but still not 100% over it yet so I'll see how it goes