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  • U5Ec Oschersleben: June 24, 2007
June 24, 2007, 09:02:58 PM +0100 - Oschersleben (GP) - UKGTR Season 5 Endurance Clubmen
Driver
 Team
Nat. Make Model Class Qualifying Race
Tyres Pos Time/Gap Pos Time/Gap Laps Stops Best Retirement
reason
Ballast
BACKO
 Racin24-7
Ferrari 550 Maranello (#990037) GT1 2 +0.162
100.476mph
1 (+5) 1:20:17.747
95.130mph
56 1:22.099
99.687mph
Michelin +25.0kg
Mark J
 Legends Racing
Maserati MC12 (#950008) GT1 5 +0.954
99.509mph
2 +51.971
94.115mph
56 1:22.985
98.623mph
Pirelli -20.0kg
Jure
 Racin24-7
Ferrari 550 Maranello (#990037) GT1 4 +0.811
99.682mph
3 (+3) +1L
93.149mph
55 1:23.304
98.245mph
Michelin +25.0kg
picnic
 Team Shark
Maserati MC12 (#870001) GT1 3 +0.523
100.033mph
4 +19.321
92.778mph
55 1:23.034
98.564mph
Pirelli -20.0kg
Nevski
 Team Oldie Racing
Porsche 993 GT2 (#3012) G2 8 +4.147
95.790mph
5 +2L
90.840mph
54 1:25.177
96.084mph
Dunlop  
Gomes Silva
 Sonic Racing Team
Porsche 996 GT3-RSR (#980031) GT2 9 +6.554
93.165mph
6 +3L
88.797mph
53 1:28.487
92.490mph
Michelin +20.0kg
Adam Parle
 Legends Racing
Gillet Vertigo Streiff (#940008) GTC 11 +6.653
93.060mph
7 +4L
88.152mph
52 1:29.527
91.416mph
Dunlop -25.0kg
mo
 Kerb Crawlers
Porsche 996 GT3 Cup (#4123) GT3 14 +7.904
91.755mph
8 +41.936
87.393mph
52 1:30.262
90.671mph
Pirelli +10.0kg
Jeffrey
 Team Shark
Dodge Viper Competition Coupé (#4115) GT3 12 +7.512
92.160mph
9 +1:20.735
86.702mph
52 1:29.545
91.397mph
Dunlop +10.0kg
Gazza49er
 Team Pseudo Racing
Ferrari 550 Maranello (#4001) GT1 6 +1.563
98.777mph
10 52 1:23.264
98.292mph
suspension
Michelin +25.0kg
Simon Gymer
 Team Shark
Porsche 996 GT3 Cup (#4111) GT3 19 +9.821
89.825mph
11 +5L
86.439mph
51 1:30.996
89.940mph
Pirelli +10.0kg
Nick Phillips
 Team Shark
Gillet Vertigo Streiff (#3100) GTC 18 +8.773
90.870mph
12 (+1) +8.196
86.293mph
51 1:29.192
91.759mph
Dunlop -25.0kg
pribeiro
 
BMW Z3M (#3115) GT3 21 +10.518
89.143mph
13 +1:00.722
85.366mph
51 1:31.412
89.531mph
Dunlop -10.0kg
Paul968
 Kerb Crawlers
Porsche 996 GT3 Cup (#4121) GT3 16 +8.594
91.051mph
14 +1:13.124
85.150mph
51 1:31.380
89.562mph
Pirelli +10.0kg
Munkez
 Team Pseudo Racing
Ferrari 360 GTC (#760052) GT2 17 +8.760
90.883mph
15 +6L
84.715mph
50 1:30.738
90.196mph
Pirelli -10.0kg
Bernie Lomax
 Legends Racing
Porsche 996 GT3 Cup (#850008) GT3 20 +9.849
89.797mph
16 +15.547
84.444mph
50 1:32.241
88.726mph
Pirelli +10.0kg
Eddie Meyer
 Kerb Crawlers
Gillet Vertigo Streiff (#990013) GTC 15 +8.489
91.157mph
17 +18.522
84.392mph
50 1:30.817
90.117mph
Dunlop -25.0kg
Reign Man
 Team Pseudo Racing
Porsche 996 GT3 Cup (#4121) GT3 24 +11.175
88.509mph
18 +51.738
83.818mph
50 1:32.445
88.530mph
Pirelli +10.0kg
will16v
 
Porsche 996 GT3-RSR (#4088) GT2 23 +10.772
88.897mph
19 +1:15.029
83.420mph
50 1:31.435
89.508mph
Dunlop +20.0kg
silver53
 Team Shark
Mosler MT900R (#880001) GTC 22 +10.705
88.961mph
20 +7L
82.577mph
49 1:31.378
89.564mph
Dunlop +20.0kg
popabawa
 Legends Racing
Gillet Vertigo Streiff (#940008) GTC 10 +6.573
93.145mph
21 49 1:29.615
91.326mph
unknown
Dunlop -25.0kg
Kerr
 Team Shark Junior
Lamborghini Murcielago R-GT (#980003) GT1 1 1:21.292
100.676mph
22 +28L 28 1:22.440
99.274mph
unknown
Michelin +13.0kg
ossie
 
Lamborghini Murcielago R-GT (#130263) GT1 7 +3.518
96.500mph
23 +33L 23 1:24.947
96.345mph
unknown
Michelin +13.0kg
LEUVEN
 Team Shark
Dodge Viper Competition Coupé (#4115) GT3 13 +7.884
91.776mph
24 +48L 8 1:30.021
90.914mph
accident
Dunlop +10.0kg
jan duijs
 
BMW Z3M (#3115) GT3 25 +13.310
86.512mph
25 +51L 5 1:32.709
88.278mph
unknown
Dunlop -10.0kg

Moderator's Report

Server replay time: 1019s

The Vertigo of Nick Phillips is behind Paul968's Porsche as they come out of Hasseroder. Paul gets a wiggle on coming out of the corner which allows Nick to close right up, and the latter moves right. Paul moves diagonally across the track, which is the normal line here, but keeps moving all the way to the right, forcing Nick to momentarily back off the throttle in order to avoid running into the back of him.

Nick then dives back down to the left under braking and is about a third of the way alongside as Paul turns in. Normally Nick would be considered entirely liable, but Paul's move across the track and into the space on the right where Nick was headed borders on blocking; had he left Nick a little room on the outside, the Vertigo might well have outbraked the Porsche and gone the long way round. Nick on the other hand, knowing that he had backed off slightly, should have been aware that an outbraking move down the inside was no longer likely to be viable.

To make matters worse, having made slight side contact, Paul continues to try and get to the apex of the corner despite the fact that Nick is still there, bouncing off him not once but twice.

  • Nick Phillipscaution — contact with Paul968
  • Paul968caution — contact with Nick Phillips
  • Paul968caution — covering another driver's line just before a braking zone


Server replay time: 1330s

Nick is once again right behind Paul as they go into the Bilstein chicane; they get through the chicane itself okay, but Paul has to come off the throttle momentarily in turn 6 to get the Porsche to turn in, and Nick nudges him lightly from behind, causing Paul to spin.

The Vertigo isn't very quick on the straights and it's understandable that Nick was trying to get close to the Porsche, but Nick should have anticipated that Paul would not be as quick as him through the corner and left just a little more space, both for safety and to get a better run at him.

I'm reducing the normal penalty to a single place because in my opinion, Paul backed off relatively late in the corner which contributed to catching Nick by surprise.

  • Nick Phillipspenalty — contact with Paul968 — 1 place lost


Server replay time: 1711s

Jure is working his way through traffic and approaches Adam's Vertigo as they get to the first turn. Adam leaves him some room on the left but Jure overestimates his Ferrari's braking performance compared to that of the Vertigo and goes in too hot, slides wide into the side of Adam, and pushes him into the gravel trap.

  • Jure ([R24-7]Jure)penalty — contact with Adam Parle — 2 places lost (plus 1 for penalty points)


Server replay time: 2911s

Backo has caught Adam up as they come to the last corner. There's nearly a full car length between them as Adam turns in, but Backo decides to force his way up the inside mid-corner instead of simply waiting until the following straight, where a pass would have been both safe and easy.

  • BACKOpenalty — contact whilst lapping — 2 places lost (plus 3 for penalty points)


Server replay time: 3388s

Backo laps Ruskus as they exit turn 6 but takes the racing line on the left without leaving any room at all to clear JR's Viper CC. There's absolutely no need in such circumstances not to leave a little more breathing space.

There are too many of these sorts of incidents involving Backo, so he has been formerly put on notice that his driving standards are under particular scrutiny and must be improved.

  • BACKOwarning — contact with Ruskus

SimRacing.org.uk Lap Records
GTR2
G2
1:25.439
95.790mph
Nevski
Qualifying
Porsche 993 GT2June 24, 2007, 09:02:58 PM +0100
U5Ec
GTR2
G2
1:25.177
96.084mph
Nevski
Race
Porsche 993 GT2June 24, 2007, 09:02:58 PM +0100
U5Ec
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7
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Author Topic: UKGTR Season 5 Endurance Clubmen - Oschersleben (GP) - Jun 24  (Read 23527 times)
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Kerr
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« Reply #45 on: June 24, 2007, 11:14:48 PM +0100 »

One thing about the clubmens racing series is there are very few GT1 cars. 6 tonight I think

From lap 2 myself and Backo started lapping people. By lap 7 or 8 we had caught the main field of GT2 drivers.

Although guys do there best, and some even go beyond the call of duty, lap after lap you keep catching slower cars and it completely breaks the race up. I can't mind getting many full laps in.

If you were to follow a slower car through a couple of corners each time you caught one race times would be terrible.

I know guys in slower cars have a hard time racing their own race when they have to worry about what is behind as well as in front, but again some sympathy for us GT1 drivers in the clubmen class as we have far more slower cars to pass.

As tonight 20 cars were far slower than a GT1 and on a small track you seemed to see the same guys every few laps, it was just car after car.

There is no way of being competitive without making quick passes during the race.

I don't think I did anything out of line on the race just in case people thought I was being defensive. Just my opinion.

I'm sorry about bumping Will in quali. I was about 0.3 sec up and really wanted to nail that lap. Your braking caught me out.

Again it was hard to get qualifying laps in as lots of slower cars and not much track

As I say most gt2 gtc drivers do a fantastic job and make as much space as normal, but please remember it's not easy for us either when you have to carry off countless passes every lap

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Adam Parle
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« Reply #46 on: June 24, 2007, 11:41:02 PM +0100 »

Whilst I appreciate that lapping lots of slower cars interupts the race - that's part of what endurance racing is.  It's a shame there's not more GT1 cars on track at this point in the season, but a larger than normal number of cars doesn't mean that forcing past cars is acceptable.  The nature of this ciruit is such that you can lose a lot of time if you get stuck behind one of the slower cars, but again, the possibility of this occurring by no means validates dubious passes under braking or otherwise.

If slower drivers are making no concession to move over, report them, PM them, just don't use them to provide addition braking/turn in etc.  It might be frustrating to look at the back of an RSR for a couple of seconds, but sometimes it is (or rather, should be) unnavoidable.



Kerr- this is by no means levelled at you, just an observation over a number of races this season.
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Gazza49er
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« Reply #47 on: June 24, 2007, 11:46:39 PM +0100 »

hope i didnt do anything wrong, i appolagize  if i did, this was my first endurance race. I tried to pass when it was safe to and on the straights unless they flashed me through.
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Kerr
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« Reply #48 on: June 25, 2007, 12:00:58 AM +0100 »

i get your point Adam.

Each case on there own circumstances, but as I say look at the results tonight.

Look how many cars are 4, 5 6 laps behind and just add up the amount of passes required. If it is a really poor overtake it should be dealt with. I have noticed a few re offenders that maybe go OTT

We really need a more balanced field to be honest. Too many slower cars and not enough GT1's.

It will be a big headace come the end of the season how to divide masters and clubmen up.

There is nothing between a number of the GT1 clubmen and master GT1's, but then you can hardly promote the GT1 drivers if there is no spaces.

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Simon Gymer
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« Reply #49 on: June 25, 2007, 08:47:07 AM +0100 »

It is unlikely there will be 2 divisions next season so that one is easy Kerr. There just aren't enough people to do 2 divisions. That is still to be decided of course, see Gizmo for more info. Cheesy
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Kerr
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« Reply #50 on: June 25, 2007, 08:51:42 AM +0100 »

It is unlikely there will be 2 divisions next season so that one is easy Kerr. There just aren't enough people to do 2 divisions. That is still to be decided of course, see Gizmo for more info. Cheesy

Look forward to hearing the plans.

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Mark J
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« Reply #51 on: June 25, 2007, 09:16:49 AM +0100 »

i had no issues with anybody on track last night when lapping. If i caught them in the twisties i stayed behind them, its painful losing a few seconds a lap but then you assume that the same applies to all the other GT1 cars so it shouldnt be a problem really.
I thought all the lapped cars did their utmost to move over, even when they were having tight battles like Paul968 and Bernie.
I did mention on our team site that i wondered how certain GT drivers were suddenly pulling out so much time over me and Picnic when we caught traffic, but i guess we were being a bit more 'gentle-menly'  Undecided ...or they are just damn quicker  Embarrassed
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Kerr
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« Reply #52 on: June 25, 2007, 09:34:06 AM +0100 »

i had no issues with anybody on track last night when lapping. If i caught them in the twisties i stayed behind them, its painful losing a few seconds a lap but then you assume that the same applies to all the other GT1 cars so it shouldnt be a problem really.
I thought all the lapped cars did their utmost to move over, even when they were having tight battles like Paul968 and Bernie.
I did mention on our team site that i wondered how certain GT drivers were suddenly pulling out so much time over me and Picnic when we caught traffic, but i guess we were being a bit more 'gentle-menly'  Undecided ...or they are just damn quicker  Embarrassed

I try my best to give slower cars the required space but at times it's hard to be competitive.

After stuttering I lost control and the lead to Backo. My car was every bit as fast as his last night but come traffic his lead was getting bigger and bigger.

Watching replay it's clear certain drivers are more forceful and yes Adam too forceful at times.

On tracks like that last night every lap you seem to have to lap a few cars. You need to carry out 100 overtaking maneuvers and not everyone is going to be perfect.

Also I see people thanking GT1 drivers for flashing lights. This is a practice I have not adopted. Please don't think it's because I'm not grateful or appreciate your help. I just think at times it can appear rude speeding up behind someone flashing lights, especially 100 yards behind when there is no realistic chance to overtake
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Dave 'Gizmo' Gymer
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« Reply #53 on: June 25, 2007, 10:03:07 AM +0100 »

One thing about the clubmens racing series is there are very few GT1 cars. 6 tonight I think

It's unusual for me to miss one - as it happens I was hacking my way back through the torrential rain in South Wales before a very long and dull drive down the M4 and M25 - my new Walkman phone came in handy. Cheesy

Sounds like I missed a good one - I'll try and make sure I run a Viper CC at the Masters race next weekend unless they feel like inviting me to run as a very slow guest in GT1. Cheesy
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Mark J
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« Reply #54 on: June 25, 2007, 10:29:57 AM +0100 »

Kerr, i dont think we're meant to flash our lights to tell people we are coming through (or are we?...can mods confirm?), i only flashed thankyou's to people who endeavoured to move out the way when i was lapping.
I suppose it wouldnt be wrong to flash as thats what they do in the real GT racing world, i just wouldnt want it to be mis-intrepeted as 'oi get out of my way, i'm coming through' so if we agree its okay to flash when coming upto lap cars i will happily use that option. Perhaps top 3 can use it or leading GT car?

Last night was probably the most overtaking moves i've ever had to use, it seemed like i was lapping several cars every single lap. I didnt have any contact or incidents so must have been doing something right  Wink
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Adam Parle
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« Reply #55 on: June 25, 2007, 10:47:08 AM +0100 »

Kerr, i dont think we're meant to flash our lights to tell people we are coming through (or are we?...can mods confirm?)

C'mon MJ - read the rules!! Wink :

"Drivers may flash their headlights (either on-off during the day or off-on during the night) to warn other drivers of their presence. However, a driver being flashed shall not be obligated to let them pass."

It's a statement of intent, but should still mandate that the lapping car performs the overtake in a safe and controlled manner.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2007, 10:49:02 AM +0100 by Adam Parle » Logged
popabawa
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« Reply #56 on: June 25, 2007, 10:51:26 AM +0100 »

I just don't see the need to use lights at all when overtaking. The only way I can see a GT1 flashing their lights is if I'm looking behind... and if I'm looking behind then I can already see you're coming up to overtake, so there's no need to flash your lights!

Oschers is a very short, very tight track so of course there was going to be plenty of overtaking required between the classes. Even so, the vast majority of GT1 drivers managed to pass perfectly though, as they have done all season Smiley

It probably didn't help that there was a pretty poor turnout of full-time Clubmen last night so the field was padded by drivers who had to take the slower G2/GT3's. I know it didn't help the GT1's but I'm glad they turned up, it added a lot to the race.
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Adam Parle
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« Reply #57 on: June 25, 2007, 10:56:09 AM +0100 »

The use of lights is more when lapping a same-class competitor, as there is less of a performance gap, and so a higher degree of communication is required as the opportunities for a pass are less clear cut.
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Munkez
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« Reply #58 on: June 25, 2007, 11:40:52 AM +0100 »

Kerr, i dont think we're meant to flash our lights to tell people we are coming through (or are we?...can mods confirm?), i only flashed thankyou's to people who endeavoured to move out the way when i was lapping.
I suppose it wouldnt be wrong to flash as thats what they do in the real GT racing world, i just wouldnt want it to be mis-intrepeted as 'oi get out of my way, i'm coming through' so if we agree its okay to flash when coming upto lap cars i will happily use that option.

As a driver of the slower GTC cars I normally flash my lights just to inform lapping drivers drivers i have seen them!
I dont think a more even field would sort the problem out Brian, more GT1 cars last night would have meant more overtaking slowing the GTC field down even more. I think for endurance racing its all down to the choice of a sensible location, hence we should drive Monaco and Macau next season  Tongue
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mo
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« Reply #59 on: June 25, 2007, 11:47:50 AM +0100 »

Fun race for me in the Cup car went with full fuel from the start and jumped the other G3s in the pit stops and later as Ruskus struggled with tyres. Found the cup car to be great fun on this twisty track and looking forward to hauling the RSR round here on tomorrow.

Lapping cars werre generally patient for me with one or two noticeable exceptions, although generally I was lucky at the points when they caught me.
I also agree that flashing lights, although allowed, is unessecary in most cases - as Mark says its pretty obvious that someone is going to lap you when they come up behind with an extra 300bhp, and in order to see the lights you have to see the car anyway. If I've braked and I'm committed to a corner then GT1 cars flashing their lights aren't going to make me jump off the track anyway.
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