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  • U5S1 Magny-Cours: July 03, 2007
July 03, 2007, 09:02:02 PM +0100 - Magny-Cours (GP) - UKGTR Season 5 GT1 Sprint
Driver
 Team
Nat. Make Model Class Qualifying Race
Tyres Pos Time/Gap Pos Time/Gap Laps Stops Best Retirement
reason
Ballast
baracus250gt
 Racin24-7
Ferrari 575 GTC (#980037) GT1 3 +0.293
108.364mph
1 40:08.556
103.348mph
25 1:32.789
107.305mph
Michelin +10.0kg
Joss
 Team Shark
Lamborghini Murcielago R-GT (#980001) GT1 4 +0.433
108.199mph
2 +2.812
103.227mph
25 1:33.138
106.903mph
Michelin +13.0kg
Jeffrey
 Team Shark
Dodge Viper GTS-R (#3004) GT1 2 +0.187
108.489mph
3 +9.176
102.955mph
25 1:32.983
107.081mph
Pirelli -15.0kg
Kerr
 Team Shark Junior
Lamborghini Murcielago R-GT (#980003) GT1 1 1:31.589
108.711mph
4 +9.427
102.945mph
25 1:32.846
107.239mph
Michelin +13.0kg
Simon Gymer
 Team Shark
Lamborghini Murcielago R-GT (#980001) GT1 6 +0.987
107.552mph
5 +21.934
102.415mph
25 1:33.463
106.531mph
Michelin +13.0kg
stnasky
 
Dodge Viper GTS-R (#3005) GT1 13 +1.961
106.432mph
6 +26.548
102.221mph
25 1:33.564
106.416mph
Pirelli -15.0kg
Truetom
 Legends Racing
Maserati MC12 (#950008) GT1 14 +1.995
106.394mph
7 +43.108
101.530mph
25 1:34.294
105.592mph
Pirelli -20.0kg
Paul Richards
 Kerb Crawlers
Ferrari 575 GTC (#940013) GT1 9 +1.540
106.913mph
8 +45.950
101.413mph
25 1:33.968
105.959mph
Michelin +10.0kg
Jure
 Racin24-7
Ferrari 550 Maranello (#990037) GT1 12 +1.850
106.559mph
9 +55.813
101.007mph
25 1:33.876
106.063mph
Michelin +25.0kg
ginsters sponsored
 Kerb Crawlers
Chevrolet Corvette C5-R (#950013) GT1 15 +2.288
106.061mph
10 +58.633
100.891mph
25 1:34.919
104.897mph
Michelin -15.0kg
linco24
 Team Shark Junior
Ferrari 550 Maranello (#950003) GT1 16 +2.289
106.060mph
11 +59.247
100.866mph
25 1:34.941
104.873mph
Michelin +25.0kg
Aagramn
 Team Shark Junior
Ferrari 550 Maranello (#950003) GT1 7 +1.295
107.195mph
12 +1:06.264
100.580mph
25 1:34.476
105.389mph
Michelin +25.0kg
Dave 'Gizmo' Gymer
 Team Shark
Chevrolet Corvette C5-R (#910001) GT1 17 +2.611
105.698mph
13 +1:28.234
99.695mph
25 1:35.338
104.436mph
Michelin -15.0kg
purdie
 Racin24-7
Lamborghini Murcielago R-GT (#960037) GT1 8 +1.441
107.027mph
14 +1L
98.104mph
24 1:34.600
105.251mph
Michelin +13.0kg
Nevski
 Team Oldie Racing
Porsche 993 GT2 (#3012) G2 20 +5.593
102.454mph
15 +1:16.976
95.099mph
24 1:37.326
102.303mph
Dunlop  
picnic
 Team Shark
Maserati MC12 (#870001) GT1 18 +2.933
105.338mph
16 +5L 20 1:34.274
105.615mph
engine
Pirelli -20.0kg
Mark J
 Legends Racing
Maserati MC12 (#950008) GT1 5 +0.722
107.861mph
17 +6L 19 1:33.663
106.304mph
unknown
Pirelli -20.0kg
Gazza49er
 
Ferrari 550 Maranello (#4001) GT1 11 +1.632
106.808mph
18 +9L 16 1:34.349
105.531mph
engine
Michelin +25.0kg
Carl Hart
 Racin24-7
Lamborghini Murcielago R-GT (#960037) GT1 10 +1.580
106.867mph
19 +13L 12 1:34.326
105.557mph
unknown
Michelin +13.0kg
Adam Parle
 Legends Racing
Maserati MC12 (#950008) GT1 19 +3.080
105.174mph
20 +15L 10 1:35.024
104.781mph
unknown
Pirelli -20.0kg
Smoothy
 
Porsche 993 GT2 (#3038) G2 21 +10.594
97.440mph
21 +18L 7 1:42.334
97.296mph
unknown
Dunlop  

Moderator's Report

Server replay time: 856s

Aagramn, Purdie and Paul Richards are all racing close together. Purdie's line through the final chicane is compromised and he suddenly slows, having bounced over the high curbs. Aagramn touches the back of him and then Paul runs into the back of Aagramn, causing the latter to spin and collect Mark McClean.

  • Racing incident

SimRacing.org.uk Lap Records
GTR2
G2
1:37.182
102.454mph
Nevski
Qualifying
Porsche 993 GT2July 03, 2007, 09:02:02 PM +0100
U5S1
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Author Topic: UKGTR Season 5 GT1 Sprint - Magny-Cours (GP) - Jul 3  (Read 18323 times)
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Aagramn
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« Reply #30 on: July 04, 2007, 11:22:29 PM +0100 »

Eventually after a few laps in the 4 plus car train Purdie squeezed past into the final chicane. As we exited the chicane nose to tail I had just got on the power when aagramns car suddenly slowed and unfortunately I had no time to react being so close and bumped the back of his car. Was sorry to see him spin out.

No problem Paul. I've looked at the replay and responded to your report - I think it was just a racing incident.
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« Reply #31 on: July 05, 2007, 10:00:29 AM +0100 »

Had a (rare) thought this morning. Does GTR2 model lack of grip from picking up debris (grass, sand etc) when a car has left the track and returned back onto the tarmac? ie as in real life?
It doesnt help to explain what caused the car to fly off the track in the first place (which literally felt like i hit a patch of oil) but it took me a good 15+ seconds to get off the slippery grass up at chateau Deau and it was the following lap and a half that the car was then all over the shop at every braking point/corner until the grip suddenly came back.
Seems quite coincidental. Undecided
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« Reply #32 on: July 05, 2007, 10:07:44 AM +0100 »

Had a (rare) thought this morning. Does GTR2 model lack of grip from picking up debris (grass, sand etc) when a car has left the track and returned back onto the tarmac? ie as in real life?

90% sure it does not. Stuff doesn't stick to your tires. It does simulate marbles and dirt on track by Live Track Technology. I don't know how far that goes, but maybe when somebody infront of you flies off and rejoins, he leaves dirt on the track  Undecided.
So maybe you shouldn't look for the answer in your car, but more on the track (or in you head  Wink).
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« Reply #33 on: July 05, 2007, 10:29:02 AM +0100 »

I agree with JR, I think the closest it gets is that you lose a bit of tyre temperature when paddling out of gravel or navigating off the grass, but that's all.
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Jure
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« Reply #34 on: July 05, 2007, 11:05:17 AM +0100 »

LOL. MJ&JR, you guys read my mind, was pondering on same question for 2 days now but I'm not so sure about your statements.

I had an off during the race (which reminds me, must check replay and do a thorough report on this GT1 sprint, awesome race, probably best one so far) and I did get a huge loss of grip for almost a lap or so. Then again, GTRPD2 did show front tyre temp drop - a lot (more importantly - tyre pressure drop).

It's a complex issue anyway. You lose front tyre grip (due to an off - tyres cool down, due to being stuck in traffic - tyres cool down, due to easing off to conserve tyres - again: cooled tyres, it's usually the fronts that cause the trouble) since they're cold - classic catch 22. Cold tyres, you get careful, hence you take different lines, perhaps brake early and not abuse the fronts so much and voila, they cool down even more...

But (there's always a but, right?  Grin), now here me out:

- there are certain "magic tyre wear benchmarks", numbers vary depending on the type of tyre, but nevertheless, they're there. Softs have, erm, I call them "stages". 0-7 (or so)= excellent grip; 8-13/14=average, 15-18/19= less then average, 20-27=careful now, careful, 27-onwards= grip? what grip?  Grin

Right?

Anyway, thing that irritates me the most is transition between the above mentioned "stages" - it's far from being gradual, no warning at all, your fronts go from "grippy" to "yeah yeah, I'll turn in... eventually" in an instant (tyre wear 18 or so with softs, or 15 with mediums). Same goes for track temperature issue, magic number is 27 degrees celsius. Huge difference between times achieved @ 26 degrees and... say 28 or so. It's not gradual at all. Best thing to describe it would be: it's not analog but digital...

Unfortunately (during my in race off) replay does not show any damage on front splitter/aero, I hit sand rather hard and front grip was gone afterwards, there is no way tyres were sooooo worn out (below 20 at the time, I think it was lap 16-17), so it's hard to judge was it due to tyres, tyre temp, aero damage or simply dirt on tyres, but I do know one thing: remember how, in case you hit a curb very hard or something like that, your car starts to pull to one side or the other or you get vibration or similar? It does last about a lap or so, then it wears out and kill me if I'm wrong, but I get same feeling with dirty tyres (due to an off). Every bloody time, even if you do NOT lose tyre temp, grip simply isn't there for a certain amount of track time.

Right. Confused text, I'm sure, but here it is just the same. Short version: I think track excursions DO get your tyres dirty, I also hit marbles few times in that looong lefthander after the fast chicane (i.e. went very wide) and suffered major understeer problems up until getting into T3 (which is something like half a lap or so later), then it went back to normal once I got to... Adelaide (give or take, happened 3 times, same effect, every bloody time. There must be something to it.).


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« Reply #35 on: July 05, 2007, 11:19:29 AM +0100 »

Thanks gents, well thats the reason i asked the question, it seemed coincidental that the tyres were like glass for almost 2 laps after spending that time slithering about on the grass. It literally felt like suddenly trying to drive with 25-30 wear rate, everwhere that i tried to take my normal line/brake point it got all slippery and out of shape. Dont forget i had been running strong in 5th or 6th and the car felt great upto this point (10 mins remaining) so not like i suddenly started throwing the car about recklessly.
They were only on about 11 wear rear and 9 wear front. I would be surprised if the fronts had cooled suddenly to throw me off as i was still pushing hard trying to stay within shouting distance of Sharks Lambo who was in visual range ahead.
I'm not looking for excuses as whats done is done, just wondered if anyone knew the off-track debris was modelled. It would make sense with the live-track modelling to be represented as marbles.  Undecided
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popabawa
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« Reply #36 on: July 05, 2007, 11:32:59 AM +0100 »

I've noticed what Mark & Jure are describing as well.

An 'off' followed by a lap or two of very low grip which then magically seems to reappear with no warning. It's like turning a swich off and on. Odd.
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« Reply #37 on: July 05, 2007, 11:40:46 AM +0100 »

Me and Kerr went off half way through the race. I didn't experience any issues afterwards, maybe 1 or 2 corners of slightly less grip....nothing bad though.

In fact the lap after I went off I did a 33.4....1 tenth off my best lap of the race....
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« Reply #38 on: July 05, 2007, 12:11:00 PM +0100 »

I reckon there is a bug in the server and my tyres pick up the crud from everyone else's offs  Roll Eyes

I too experienced a sudden drop off in tyre performance, when the wear got to about 11 or 12 I really lost the ability to get round the right hander on to the long straight. I hadn't been off prior to this (for a change)
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Mark J
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« Reply #39 on: July 05, 2007, 02:25:09 PM +0100 »

would be handy to know if it is modelled, if only for the reason that next time i (we) have an off, we know to be a little more careful for the next few corners or next lap if the tyres have picked up debris.

I wonder if grass or sand makes a difference ? That grass up at Chateau Deau was a complete slippery ice-rink bastich to get a GT monster back onto the tarmac. Sad
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« Reply #40 on: July 05, 2007, 02:45:38 PM +0100 »

This can go the other way too. If you spin on the tarmac or lock your wheels when going off for example your tyre temperatures can rocket causing the same effect (slidey car on overheating tyres and lower lap times). It can take a couple of laps to cool off your tyres after that and it will feel kind of like driving on ice with very sudden loss of traction.

Maybe another explanation for the stuff you guys are describing is they have modelled tyre graining or getting to different compounds in the tyre. Like we hear on the F1 commentary tyres can grain for a few laps before they come back or as in road tyres you can get to a different compound in the tyre where the grip levels are very different despite the temperatures being the same. I know they model things down to sploshing fuel in the tank (alledegly) so maybe they model graining. The only people that can answer is Blimey, so maybe you could email them to find out.
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« Reply #41 on: July 05, 2007, 03:15:15 PM +0100 »

Where's AndyG when we need him? I notice he's not logged on to this forum for a couple of months Sad
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« Reply #42 on: July 05, 2007, 03:18:02 PM +0100 »

Where's AndyG when we need him? I notice he's not logged on to this forum for a couple of months Sad

Probably got fed up of the SimBin/Blimey!-bashing.
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« Reply #43 on: July 05, 2007, 11:02:48 PM +0100 »

Does anyone know much in this case about tyre makes? and is a dunlop similar on a RSR as it wud be on a Saleen?  Huh

i've started driving the GruppeM RSR which has Dunlops and find it better than the white/yellow Freisinger RSR which runs Michelins. I also notice the Machanek car runs Pirellis but have never driven it.

Do the tyre brands make a difference and vary in characteristics?? ie. some makes better softs others more durable?  Smiley
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« Reply #44 on: July 06, 2007, 12:04:45 AM +0100 »

I made a video of this race:

High Resolution DivX stream

Youtube
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