UKGTR Skin Pack 2.6 test - Imola - Aug 28

[Simon Gymer]

Don't forget that the Modena can run on different tyres too which affects performance in different ways. I think there are Pirelli and Dunlop versions and there might also be a Michelin but I can't think of one.

I always prefer Dunlop to Pirelli in GTR1 because Pirellis overheat and give great one lap grip but not great over a race distance. Dunlops are nice and steady and don't wear much. Not sure if those characteristics were carried over to GTR2 or not.

[Paul968]

30kg should be well within the range of what the succes ballasts will adjust for.

Yes, although that is meant to compensate for drivers, not cars.

I conducted an offline test race using UKGTR only GTC class cars with AI at 120% over a 40minute race at Imola. A Nissan won the race by nearly 6 minutes !  followed by a couple of TVR's and Morgans. The highest finishing Modena was 9th with a few others down in midfield. Mosler was fastest over a qually session but the Nissan had fastest race laps. RS's were mainly 14th to 19th with about 1 in the top 10.

I wouldn't read much into the pace of the AI. We know from experience what the real relative levels of performance are, and they don't tally with the AI at all.

If we've upset the natural racing balance of the real cars by this much we might as well go arcade racing.  
I want close racing like the rest of you but not at the cost of artificial performance to make slow cars fast and fast cars slow. I just hope it all pans out okay in the championship or there will be mud slinging.
I'm not having a rant, i just want to know that we've gone in the right direction with all this tweaking.

I don't think the natural balance has been completely upset at all, quite the opposite in fact. The RS is still competitive as my times last night show, I know the Mosler is from last season and the Nissan looks more on the pace. You may however have highlighted one car which is perhaps disadvantaged more than it needs to be. It would be a shame not to take notice of the test races to fine tune the numbers.

[Dave 'Gizmo' Gymer]

30kg should be well within the range of what the succes ballasts will adjust for.

Yes, although that is meant to compensate for drivers, not cars.

True, but with the car change penalty there'll inevitably be a bit of implicit car equalisation too if it's required.

It would be a shame not to take notice of the test races to fine tune the numbers.

Thing is, Paul, it takes a lot of time and effort to create a new pack, upload it to various places, have everyone download it, do a test race... and then decide the numbers aren't right after all. We'll see over the course of the season whether the next pack needs some more small adjustments much better than we will from a single test race, and the success ballast will stop one car (be it the 360 GTC or another) running away with things if it's a little light.

Ultimately it would be great if we could get to a point where we don't need to ballast the cars in the pack and could instead do it using GTR2 Manager, then we could adjust things more dynamically. But even if that happens it's a fair way off yet.

[Mark J]

Well i noticed after the race that i had chosen a model with Yokohoma tyres. Any idea how they perform against the other tyre choices?
I tried a Pirelli shod car after the race but didnt notice any major difference, though by then i was a bit tired out.

[Paul968]

Thing is, Paul, it takes a lot of time and effort to create a new pack, upload it to various places, have everyone download it, do a test race... and then decide the numbers aren't right after all. We'll see over the course of the season whether the next pack needs some more small adjustments much better than we will from a single test race, and the success ballast will stop one car (be it the 360 GTC or another) running away with things if it's a little light.

I understand that it's all extra effort, but the numbers chosen initially were a complete guess. One of the main ideas of the test races was to check that the values were right - you said as in the Oshers B thread:

Sugo will be the counterpoint track, very quick, lots of fast corners and longish straight bits (quite 'Spa-like'). Not sure what to make of Adria but that has different character again, longish straights with very slow corners, like Misano or the early and middle bits of Estoril.

I wanted to start out with a test that was primarily about the effect on handling and low speed (power-to-weight dominated) acceleration. At higher speed tracks performance is mostly dominated by aerodynamics, both drag and downforce, and I wanted somewhere which would show the most pronounced effects of the ballasts.

I've put a fair amount of time in to evaluate the effects of the ballast on the cars, and this is probably the only car I can see which looks wrong. I'm disappointed if this effort was a waste of time.  Not tweaking the Modena is likely to rule it out as a reasonable choice this season IMO - perhaps that is a price you are prepared to pay though.

[Mark J]

Not tweaking the Modena is likely to rule it out as a reasonable choice this season IMO -

Although i need to 'head to head' test it at a couple of other tracks first, i unfortunately also thought the same after trying it out last night. I was intending to run it for the GTC endurance champ as a complete change of scene for me, but am now re-considering once more.

[Simon Gymer]

Well i noticed after the race that i had chosen a model with Yokohoma tyres. Any idea how they perform against the other tyre choices?
I tried a Pirelli shod car after the race but didnt notice any major difference, though by then i was a bit tired out.

Not sure I've ever used the Yokos in the game. If they are anything like the road tyres Yoko make then they will be soft as kippers and wear very quickly but provide a lot of grip whilst they do without being on a knife edge like Pirellis tend to be.

[Dave 'Gizmo' Gymer]

I've put a fair amount of time in to evaluate the effects of the ballast on the cars, and this is probably the only car I can see which looks wrong. I'm disappointed if this effort was a waste of time.  Not tweaking the Modena is likely to rule it out as a reasonable choice this season IMO - perhaps that is a price you are prepared to pay though.

If it's out by 20kg or less it'll be evened out with the success ballast after 1 or 2 rounds at most. That's hardly going to "rule it out"! There was next to no discussion of the ballast values after Sugo - I had made it clear that we were going to be doing stuff very quickly in order to kick the season off by September 2nd.

[Mark J]

but to be fair Dave, we could only evaluate the car we drove on that night at Sugo (in my case the 360GTC). There should really have been a few test races with different classes to properly see how they performed. Not poo-pooing your hard work, its just that as in all things in life, you have to see if the reality matches the theory, especially in competition.
Its no good if we dive straight into a championship and find somethings horribly wrong or a car has to be discounted, when the whole idea was to make car choice more widespread.

[will16v]

How do i change the tyre selection for my own skinned car?
I ran with Dunlops last night, but if i wanted to change to say Pirelli's, how can i do this?
Or is the tyre selection locked when i submitted the skin for the pack, and no further changes can be made?

[Dave 'Gizmo' Gymer]

Its no good if we dive straight into a championship and find somethings horribly wrong or a car has to be discounted, when the whole idea was to make car choice more widespread.

Stop over dramatizing things by using emotive language like "horribly wrong" - it can't be more than 15-20kg out and the gap between it and the RS is unchanged since the last two versions of the pack. This is not like the 993 GT2 going into GT2 as per Season 4!

[Dave 'Gizmo' Gymer]

How do i change the tyre selection for my own skinned car?
I ran with Dunlops last night, but if i wanted to change to say Pirelli's, how can i do this?
Or is the tyre selection locked when i submitted the skin for the pack, and no further changes can be made?

It's too late now - I must say I was surprised when I noticed that you'd skinned a Dunlop-shod car whilst checking the results but at least you won't be getting any success ballast.

[will16v]

Well you've managed to change the negative to positive there Dave i'll give you that  .

I'll keep this in mind for next time 

[Mark J]

err, i'd say a Nissan going faster than a Ferrari is 'horribly wrong'  

[Dave 'Gizmo' Gymer]

err, i'd say a Nissan going faster than a Ferrari is 'horribly wrong'  

Sounds eminently normal to me.