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  • NGT Sprint - S1 R4 - Brno: August 02, 2005
August 02, 2005, 09:24:17 PM +0100 - Brno (1987+) - UKGTR GTR1 Sprint Season 1 N-GT
Driver
 Team
Nat. Make Model Class Qualifying Race
Tyres Pos Time/Gap Pos Time/Gap Laps Stops Best Retirement
reason
Ballast
Matjaz Plotajs
 dE Racing
Ferrari 360 Modena NGT 1 2:00.888
99.792mph
1 31:38.530
95.313mph
15 2:01.647
99.169mph
Dunlop  
Mike Wrightson
 dE Racing
Ferrari 360 Modena NGT 4 +0.987
98.984mph
2 +19.694
94.335mph
15 2:03.075
98.019mph
Dunlop  
Simon Gymer
 Team Shark
Ferrari 360 Modena NGT 5 +1.696
98.411mph
3 +20.837
94.278mph
15 2:03.264
97.868mph
Pirelli  
Bernie Lomax
 Ze insane Penguins
Porsche 996 GT2 Bi-turbo NGT 6 +2.395
97.853mph
4 (+1) +38.413
93.423mph
15 2:03.384
97.773mph
Pirelli  
Truetom
 Ze insane Penguins
Ferrari 360 Modena NGT 3 +0.939
99.023mph
5 +42.167
93.242mph
15 2:02.670
98.342mph
Dunlop  
Paul968
 Kerb Crawlers
Ferrari 360 Modena NGT 2 +0.216
99.614mph
6 +43.216
93.192mph
15 2:02.762
98.269mph
Pirelli  
greg130
 28CD Motorsports
Ferrari 360 Modena NGT 8 +2.726
97.591mph
7 +54.104
92.672mph
15 2:04.149
97.171mph
Dunlop  
popabawa
 Legends Racing
Porsche 911 GT3-RS NGT 12 +4.471
96.233mph
8 +1:04.954
92.160mph
15 2:04.925
96.567mph
Dunlop  
rufbtr
 Speedworx
Ferrari 360 Modena NGT 9 +3.166
97.245mph
9 +1:17.283
91.585mph
15 2:04.865
96.614mph
Pirelli  
fozzmeister
 The Crafty Butchers
Ferrari 360 Modena NGT 24 +10.894
91.542mph
10 +1:31.103
90.949mph
15 2:03.822
97.427mph
Dunlop  
picnic
 Team Shark
Porsche 911 GT3-RS NGT 10 +3.314
97.129mph
11 +1:53.754
89.925mph
15 2:06.252
95.552mph
Dunlop  
Don
 Kerb Crawlers
Porsche 911 GT3-RS NGT 15 +5.041
95.797mph
12 +1:59.297
89.678mph
15 2:05.911
95.811mph
Dunlop  
Iain
 Ze insane Penguins
Ferrari 360 Modena NGT 13 +4.745
96.023mph
13 +2:13.441
89.054mph
15 2:07.666
94.494mph
Dunlop  
malonejames
 
Ferrari 360 Modena NGT 7 +2.507
97.764mph
14 +2:33.281
88.193mph
15 2:05.174
96.375mph
Dunlop  
Woodee
 
Porsche 911 GT3-RS NGT 19 +6.334
94.824mph
15 +1L
88.655mph
14 2:07.755
94.428mph
Dunlop  
Jamera
 Kerb Crawlers
Ferrari 360 Modena NGT 21 +8.275
93.399mph
16 +45.642
86.581mph
14 2:10.660
92.329mph
Dunlop  
as-here
 
Ferrari 360 Modena NGT 18 +5.833
95.199mph
17 +1:08.593
85.574mph
14 2:06.967
95.014mph
Dunlop  
Rob Bywater "Kerb Crawlers"
 Kerb Crawlers
Ferrari 360 Modena NGT 22 +8.846
92.988mph
18 +1:10.593
85.487mph
14 2:10.312
92.575mph
Dunlop  
silver53
 Ze insane Penguins
Ferrari 360 Modena NGT 23 +10.112
92.089mph
19 +1:58.003
83.484mph
14 2:08.656
93.767mph
Pirelli  
PaulW
 Legends Racing
Ferrari 360 Modena NGT 11 +4.093
96.524mph
20 14 2:05.580
96.063mph
fuel
Pirelli  
CP
 
Ferrari 360 Modena NGT 14 +4.786
95.992mph
21 14 2:04.826
96.644mph
fuel
Dunlop  
Wilier
 Kerb Crawlers
Ferrari 360 Modena NGT 17 +5.788
95.232mph
22 +5L 10 2:07.475
94.635mph
unknown
Dunlop  
TinMan
 
Ferrari 360 Modena NGT 20 +7.168
94.206mph
23 +8L 7 2:08.039
94.219mph
unknown
Dunlop  
mo
 
Ferrari 360 Modena NGT 16 +5.529
95.427mph
24 +12L 3 2:09.850
92.905mph
unknown
Dunlop  

Moderator's Report

I had a report of one driver having a go at another using the in-game chat during qualifying. All drivers are reminded that using chat during qualifying is against the rules of UKGTR, and may lead to penalties being given, and also that disputes between drivers should be settled privately, involving the moderators if necessary, and not in public.


Server replay time: 320s

Greg130 has been following JM (malonejames). JM locks a wheel into turn 9 and Greg gets alongside on the exit, but Bernie is rejoining from an off and JM moves over to avoid him without realising that Greg is there, and there is light contact.

JM remains alongside on the run to turn 10, but Greg turns in on him and again there is light contact.

They remain alongside into turn 11; Greg (who is on the inside) takes the normal line out of the corner but JM is still there and is bumped off.


Server replay time: 326s

Bernie Lomax has run off at turn 9. Picnic goes past as he rejoins, but Bernie leaves his nose inside as they reach turn 10 and as Picnic turns in from a fairly wide line there is contact and the latter spins out.

This was the first racing lap, Bernie had been off the road, and was sitting right in Picnic's blind spot. Bernie had no right to stick his nose in where he did and should've displayed more patience instead of trying to make up for his own mistake at the very next corner.

However, because Picnic's line through this corner starts with a much wider entry and I think Bernie was anticipating, I'm going to reduce the normal first-lap 3 place penalty to 1.

  • Bernie Lomaxpenalty — contact with Picnic — 1 place lost


Server replay time: 388s

Fozz is following Tom Cooper out of T1, and outbrakes him into T2. Fozz holds a fairly tight line but Tom can't see him until after he turns in, when it's too late to avoid contact. Neither car goes off.


Server replay time: 536s

Mo is at the back of a little pack of 6 cars, with Fozz catching the pack. Mo gets his braking wrong into T4, and scrabbles back off the mrables as Fozz gets alongside on the run out. Mo drags his car off the curb, clipping Fozz's front left, before losing control in turn 5.

  • Racing incident


Server replay time: 570s

Mo spins in turn 7 and collects Woodee, who is unable to avoid him. Mo tags Woodee during the rejoin. Picnic thens runs into Woodee.

  • Racing incident


Server replay time: 605s

Wilier slides to the inside in turn 12, running over the curb before sliding back across the track in front of Fozz. This allows him to get alongside Fozz into T13, but Fozz doesn't quite leave him enough room and there's contact, Fozz getting bumped wide.


Server replay time: 1259s

Paul968 gets a run on Greg130 out of turn 1 and goes up the inside into turn 2. Paul runs a touch wide and there is contact, Greg bouncing off into the gravel.

  • greg130 (Greg130)advice — when in doubt, back off
  • Paul968advice — try to hold a tight line when passing on the inside


Server replay time: 1753s

Paul968 gets a run on TrueTom out of T1. TrueTom is himself chasing Bernie Lomax for fourth place, and whilst Paul is debating whether to actually try and pass Tom or back out, Tom turns in relatively early and there is light contact. Paul gives TrueTom the place back on the exit of T2.

  • Paul968warning — contact with TrueTom


Server replay time: 1784s

Fozz and PaulW fight over turn 2, and there is light contact. Fozz's passing attempt was a tad ambitious, but this incident must be judged against the background of the battle between these two who had been at it hammer and tongs for a large proportion of the race.

  • Racing incident

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Author Topic: NGT Sprint Cup - Season 1, Round 4, Brno - Aug 2nd  (Read 23112 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
fozzmeister
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« Reply #90 on: August 04, 2005, 09:25:46 PM +0100 »

When you use the brakes, you use up a proportion of the grip available for each tyre. The traction circle principle says that a tyre has a limited amount of grip for both (plotted as a rough circle on a graph, hence the name), and the more you use for braking, the less is available for cornering. If you move the brake bias back and also trail brake, then the rear tyres are braking more and hence have less turning grip, the upshot of which being that the car has more oversteer/ less understeer than if the brake bias was more forwards.

hope that explains it.

Paul

Thanks PaulW Paul968 and Shark for your expanations so far.

I always knew about the weight aspect of it to create the overstear. I've just done a few laps around BRNO with the brake pressure about 3 percent further back (about 55, I had it on 57 for the hills) and it feels like I can go a lot deeper into the corners without it locking up as I can turn in longer on the brakes.

Can I ask, what bias are you using? and do you think you are using slight locking of the rear tires to distabalise the car further into the corner or are you only concerned with weight and the distributing your braking to prevent the front wheels locking. Also when you are going up the hills (specifically the latter one), do you move your bias further forward every lap because if I try to turn and brake only the slightest bit there with the bias around 55 I spin.

Thanks

Fozzmeister


edited coz im a dozy bastard
« Last Edit: August 05, 2005, 01:13:05 AM +0100 by fozzmeister » Logged

I am selling my Virtual Roadster cockpit on eBay:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320742210327 / https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=9771.0
iRacing = Matthew Forrester
Paul968
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« Reply #91 on: August 04, 2005, 09:51:23 PM +0100 »

Hi Fozz - I don't think you have totally understood what I said.

Moving the brake bias back is not done to lock the wheels and so get turn in. It is a more subtle effect. Before explaining, let me clarify something - the ability of a car to turn is directly related to the levels of grip at the front and the rear. More at the front than the back, then the car will want to turn more, ultimately into oversteer. More at the back than the front, the car will resist turning and will understeer.

So imagine you are entering a corner while still on the brakes. Using the brakes will rob both ends of the car of some lateral grip, as it is being used for braking rather than turning (the traction circle theory). Normally, the front does more of the braking than the back (bias greater than 50%) and so the front loses more lateral grip than the rear. This means that the car understeers more while on the brakes than off. Note that this does not mean the tyres are locked - far from it. Now imagine (for the sake of arguement) that the brake bias is set at 50%. This means (ignoring weight transfer, which in reality muddies the waters a bit) that the front tyres will lose just as much lateral grip as the rears when you brake. Therefore, braking will not make the car understeer at all (although it will have less overall grip). So, changing the bias back has improved the car's ability to turn while trail braking. In reality you don't go near 50% as the weight over the front under braking means the fronts need to do more work, but the principle is the same.

Is that any clearer?

My bias at Brno is 55, but as I said it is not that critical - My 2.02.0 lap had it at 60 with no trail braking at all and early braking points. I expect I could get a 2.00 at 60 if I tried.

I don't move the bias mid race, no, but I do use my right foot to keep some throttle on while braking - stops the rears locking up, especially later in the braking zones.

If I were you I wouldn't push the bias so far back - there is only a small amount to gain and a lot to lose if you can't handle it. In time you will gradually adjust to it and then it wont be a problem.

hope that helps

Paul
« Last Edit: August 04, 2005, 10:38:39 PM +0100 by Paul968 » Logged
fozzmeister
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« Reply #92 on: August 04, 2005, 10:34:42 PM +0100 »

Thanks for your feedback Paul. Thought I had this driving bit pretty much sorted in understanding but it appears still got some way to go :-)

No way was I going to enter a race with less front bias than I can handle, although qualifying is the place to push yourself a bit. I just wanted to see the effect as it's a good idea for me see the extreme effect and that's easiest to do with more extreme values, and then you can decide how much you want to go in that direction :-) Besides I think our style is quite different anyway...

In the past I've been braking then coming off as the brakes heat up in a straight line as you'd expect, but I haven't really been coming off progressively (at least not conciously) any more as I've been turning, so the amount of turning while trail braking I could do was probably something around 10-25 degrees at most depending on corner and banking.

I've just done a few laps around Barca which is pretty much the course I know best of all (oh why did it have to rain :-)  ). Trying to back off the brake progressively as I start to enter the corner to the apex. Unfortunately I'm quite oversteary there on my setup and I have trouble feeling the first 1/4 or my brake pressure as the spring is not so springy there. Plotting new pedals soon :-)

Impressive how you use the throttle to stop the rears from locking, I always have tried to get max rear braking without any locking as its something I'm always scared of, I don't think I'll be trying that tactic for a long time tho, think I'd rather shift the bias every lap for the time being (I used to do this around BRNO up the hills, then switch it back on the main straight). It's a shame you can't map a button to do the shifting of bias and perhaps any other mid track twiddles, I'm not sure how realistic that would be tho, perhaps a little electronics project for me sometime in the future :-)

Thanks again.

Fozzmeister
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http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320742210327 / https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=9771.0
iRacing = Matthew Forrester
PaulW
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« Reply #93 on: August 05, 2005, 12:36:18 AM +0100 »

Paul, how does this all work with a front wheel drive Diesel Passat?
Only, I want to borrow my girlfriend works car and find a field somewhere where I can wang it...


Wink
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Give a man a fish- he'll eat for a day. But give him a fishing rod and... he'll break it up for firewood, or just possibly, swap it for a fish.
[ZiP]Tyf
Guest
« Reply #94 on: August 05, 2005, 02:06:59 PM +0100 »

You just better stick to the Elise Peewee!  Tongue Fast enough for ye! Wink Cheesy

T
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