GT Sprint Cup - Season 1, Round 5, Donington - Aug 10th

[picnic]

That's the trouble with leagues that have many racers, you don't all have the same views on sticking to one car all season or swapping, how long races should last for, how to slow the quick guys down etc. Whatever is done is a compromise and needs to keep the drivers attending events. Dictating the car you must drive all season maybe more akin to real world where you get your drive and generally stick with it, but would alienate many drivers (IMHO)

The real problem here, again my view, is that Simbin tempted us all with weight penalties but then failed to implement that for online races.

[fozzmeister]

Yeh weight penalties would be a nice solution, but the Lister aint the fastest car, which kindof makes it a bit backward if the car that isn't the fastest get's slowed down...

I don't know why I'm taking part in this conversation, it actually doesn't bother me much. Just throwing ideas into the pot I guess. I know Comet (I think it was them) were going to ban the F550 as it was becoming an F550 league, dunno if they did it. Personally, If everybody was picking a car that I wanted to use, it'd make an effor not to.

Fozzmeister

edit
Actually if there are cars I would not drive, Lister and Saleen spring to mind, so actually on further reflection, it does bother me.

[picnic]

The weight penalties would not be used to slow a Lister, or any other car down, but a quick driver. Doesn't solve the problem of everyone taking the same car but would help to keep racing closer.

[Dave 'Gizmo' Gymer]

The weight penalties would not be used to slow a Lister, or any other car down, but a quick driver. Doesn't solve the problem of everyone taking the same car but would help to keep racing closer.

I'd quite like to use weight penalties to equalise the cars, actually. Much more elegant solution than the timed pit stops we've been forced to use in UKGPL. Then we'd be truly comparing drivers and not driver plus car combinations.

[picnic]

Would you've simply slaped the weight on the car then irrespective of the quality of driver? I'd see the weights as being a way to even out the driver ability too. I know this is all theoretical but perhaps GTL or rFactor......

[Dave 'Gizmo' Gymer]

Would you've simply slaped the weight on the car then irrespective of the quality of driver?

Yes. If a driver is running away with a championship we need to find them some better quality opposition, not artificially slow them down.

[Simon Gymer]

Hmm not sure I agree with that. I don't mind making it more competitive but the fastest drivers should still be entitled to win they are the fastest. It's like penalising Ferrari F1 team just cause they win all the time (please no political nonsense threads from that comment).

[popabawa]

Dave's suggestion of weight handicapping the cars seems ideal though impossible to implement as I understand it.

I had a look at the GPL league to see the handicaps applied to the cars and that makes perfect sense for the Endurance races.

Agree with Shark too, fastest drivers should win unless we specifically introduce a 'handicap' series (like in horse racing) where the intention would be to get everyone over the finish line at the same time. Not sure if very many people would find that motivating and we'd run out of days of the week!

In my view, discrepancies in driver ability is best handled through leagues and we'll have a much clearer view on driver ability at the end of Season 1.

[Simon Gymer]

Yes absolutely, nothing needs to be done yet. Just some ideas come the close season and what to do for Season 2 (if anything, after all if this season is a big success (despite GTR's best efforts to thwart us) we may not need to change anything).

[picnic]

Hmm not sure I agree with that. I don't mind making it more competitive but the fastest drivers should still be entitled to win they are the fastest. It's like penalising Ferrari F1 team just cause they win all the time (please no political nonsense threads from that comment).

Or like Touring Cars

Even with weight penalties it is my view the cream would still win, they are capable of pushing and being more consistent. It's a good job people like myself race with the knowledge that I have no chance of winning, unless helped by car choice/weight penalties etc., as the grids would be very small.

[fozzmeister]

I don't like weight penalties at all per-se. But the default GT/GTR one isn't so bad. It's just enough to close the grid up a bit, and not enough so its impossible to well after winning. I also liked the fallof, a P3 hardly get's any penalty so it naturally closes up the top few cars (the fact that my average endurance position is P3 doesn't have anything to do with it  )

[PaulW]

It's a good job people like myself race with the knowledge that I have no chance of winning, unless helped by car choice/weight penalties etc., as the grids would be very small.

Lol I'm with ya there brother! I'm just racing for my own personal podium starting at about 6th place 


Handicapping cars to encourage diversity and handicapping drivers to close up the racing are widely different things. I'd be interested in driving in a series that did either but the former is much more straighforward to do as its a single "cold light of day" judgement call at the start of the season.

It feels fair to say that the fastest drivers are also the most skilled, experienced and consistent so they'd still be winning all over the place. It would just give us mortals a better chance of fighting amongst them occasionally.

[fozzmeister]

Certainly I was a lot worse driver when I was allocated D1, than I am now however, Probably at least 1-2secs I would guess. So allocating at the start would not work at all for D2 (or D3?) which would get newer drivers improving quickly. As people get closer to thier/the limit the improvement becomes slower, so its easier however, so its not as unmanageable in D1, at least for later seasons.

Fozzmeister

[PaulW]

I think I'm with you there Fozz if we we're applying weight penalities to slow drivers rather than cars. But in that case I guess the weight penalities would be applied for each race based on the previous races results rather than once at the start of the season.

[popabawa]

My 2p's worth 

I really don't think handicapping drivers (rather than cars) is going to work.

One fundamental flaw is that you have to have a person working out the handicap's, it gets very complex rating each driver on their 'usual performance' (to use the horse racing parlance).

For example, if I run 6th at Enna in a 20 min NGT, how will I be handicapped for a Enduro race at Spa? It's then a 'best guess' by the handicapper.

In order for horses to become handicapped, thay have to effectively 'qualify' to give the handicapper enough info. before they can reasonably apply a handicap. Yes, we *could* use season 1 as a base but you still end up with the same problem for new drivers, switching series etc. etc.

Handicap races only exist in horse racing to keep the races close for punters because of the betting industry, which in turn (partially) provides the incentives to enter a handicap by generating prize money.

We don't have prize money, so where's the incentive for the fastest drivers in UKGTR to compete in a handicap rather than another (non-hadicapped) series?

Pops.