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Linked Events
  • S16D1 Le Mans: October 19, 2008
October 19, 2008, 10:00:13 PM +0100 - Le Mans (Sarthe (2006+)) - UKGPL Season 16 (2008) Division 1 '67
Driver
 Team
Nat. Make Model Class Qualifying Race
Tyres Pos Time/Gap Pos Time/Gap Laps Stops Best Retirement
reason
Ballast
Hristo Itchov
 
Ferrari 312 (1967) F1 1967 2 +0.706
151.681mph
1 47:13.844
148.800mph
14 3:16.924
152.951mph
Firestone  
Lorenzo Galluzzi
 Soggy Bottom Racers Club
Cooper T81b (Maserati) F1 1967 9 2 +28.137
147.337mph
14 3:21.819
149.241mph
Firestone  
Ken Murray
 Soggy Bottom Racers Club
Ferrari 312 (1967) F1 1967 3 +1.994
150.704mph
3 +1:03.921
145.517mph
14 3:18.774
151.527mph
Firestone  
EvilClive
 
Ferrari 312 (1967) F1 1967 5 +4.182
149.072mph
4 +1:24.554
144.489mph
14 3:20.597
150.150mph
Firestone  
bernie
 Soggy Bottom Racers Club
Lotus 49 (Cosworth) F1 1967 4 +3.968
149.230mph
5 +7L
142.966mph
7 3:25.344
146.679mph
Disco
Firestone  
Burtoner
 Soggy Bottom Racers Club
BRM P115 F1 1967 7 +26.591
134.189mph
6 +12L
135.408mph
2 3:31.804
142.205mph
Disco
Goodyear  
Iestyn Davies
 
Eagle T1G (Weslake 1967) F1 1967 1 3:17.866
152.223mph
7 +2:39.512
99.670mph
2 4:55.175
102.040mph
Disco
Goodyear  
Phil Thornton
 Crash 'N' Burn Racing
Honda RA300 F1 1967 6 +7.963
146.333mph
8 +14L
---
0 ---
---
Disco
Firestone  
1 UKGPL
 
Brabham BT24 (Repco) F1 1967 8 9 DNS ---
---
Goodyear  

Moderator's Report

The warp contact between Ken Murray and Clive Gardner on lap 1 was a result of the latter just being too close. As a guide I should always be able to see tarmac between the nose of my car and the tail of the car one is following.
In this instance the warp contact had a knock on effect to those cars following and was unnecessary, as there was no passing opportunity to be had and leaving a slightly larger gap would not have been a handicap.
I consider myself told off!!


Server replay time: 0h01m07s

Phil is witness to the two Ferraris tangling ahead and is ultra cautious to avoid being involved. Burt is powering his BRM off the grid in his usual formidable way, but cannot see what Phil has seen. Burt is caught unawares by the Phil's suddenly slower car and runs into Phil.
Neither Burt nor Phil are at fault.

  • Racing incident

SimRacing.org.uk Lap Records
Grand Prix Legends
F1 1967
3:16.924
152.913mph
Hristo Itchov
Race
Ferrari 312 (1967)October 19, 2008, 10:00:13 PM +0100
S16D1
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Author Topic: UKGPL Season 16 (2008) Division 1 \'67 - Le Mans (Sarthe) - Oct 19  (Read 5716 times)
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Phil Thornton
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« on: October 16, 2008, 09:42:54 PM +0100 »

Season 16  Division 1 - Round 4 - Le Mans Sarthe

The fourth round of the championship and the first one on European soil.  1.UKGPL seems to be working OK so we are back on VROC for this round.

This is a very high speed track, it is difficult to to avoid slow and stationary cars when approaching at high speed.  So it is particularly important that drivers execute very careful rejoins, keeping well off the racing line until they are fully up to speed.  Also drivers must stay well over to the right hand side when slowing down to make their pit stops.  If you are not making a pit stop then you are well advised to keep to the left of the start/finish straight during the pit stop window.

Please be in VROC UKGPL chatroom by 8:55 p.m.

Server 1.ukgpl
IP address 194.105.176.22
Race date = 19-10-2008
Track = Le Mans Sarthe
Variant = 67F1
Damage Model = PRO
Qualifying time = 35 minutes. Don't start until 30 mins left on clock to allow everyone to join.
Race length = 50 minutes (14 laps)
Password: see above

Driver lists can be found on the championship standings page

Pit Stop Times
Single Stop Time
   
Double Stop Time
Cooper
No Stop
   
N/A
Brabham
17
   
N/A
BRM
17
   
N/A
Ferrari
31
   
10
Honda
33
   
11
Lotus
53
   
21
Eagle
67
   
29


 First Pit Window is: 12 (to go on your pit board) to 8 (to go on your pit board)
 Second Pit Window is: 10 (to go on your pit board) to 4 (to go on your pit board)
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bernie
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« Reply #1 on: October 18, 2008, 11:49:57 AM +0100 »

Can't bring myself to practise for this one , It has to be a candidate for the most boring track ever in GPL .

After what seems like 15 mins leaning on elbows , then "Hey whats this " anyone got a bucket and spade  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #2 on: October 18, 2008, 03:40:25 PM +0100 »

Hehe Bernie I can see what you are saying.

A race is the only reason I am gonna drive it  Tongue

Classic track with the Le Mans races, waiting for the different mods to be finished!

Will take some good driving to make a good race with the 67's though... !
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« Reply #3 on: October 18, 2008, 05:49:26 PM +0100 »

Well Le Mans is an "endurance" race after all  Roll Eyes

So I suppose I will simply have to 'erm  ............   "endure" it  Cheesy


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« Reply #4 on: October 19, 2008, 04:38:22 PM +0100 »

I can't make this race - sorry.
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Hristo Itchov
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« Reply #5 on: October 19, 2008, 06:32:44 PM +0100 »

I see Honda has a longer stop than the Ferrari. Again the issue of using WRs or something for calculating pitstops and not taking reliability in account. There's no way in hell you can be faster in a race with the Honda than with the Ferrari and make it to the end to tell about it. I dare anyone who thinks it's possible to do it, I'd call him/her the luckiest person ever!  Cheesy
« Last Edit: October 19, 2008, 06:34:33 PM +0100 by Hristo Itchov » Logged

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« Reply #6 on: October 19, 2008, 06:50:54 PM +0100 »

I see Honda has a longer stop than the Ferrari. Again the issue of using WRs or something for calculating pitstops and not taking reliability in account. There's no way in hell you can be faster in a race with the Honda than with the Ferrari and make it to the end to tell about it. I dare anyone who thinks it's possible to do it, I'd call him/her the luckiest person ever!  Cheesy
We have tried to take reliability into account this season.  Have a look at the Pit Stop Calculator and you will see we have introduced a race pace factor for Division 1.  The Pit Stops are still based on WR times as we need some logical basis on which to calculate the stops.  The race pace factor for the Honda and Ferrari is 1.005.  This effectively shortens the Pit Stops for the faster cars to compensate for reliability etc.  Using a race Pace Factor for the Honda of 1.008 (effectively lengthens the Honda WR time by 0.8%) would bring the Pit Stop down from 33 to 25 seconds.  Maybe that would have been more appropriate in this case but it is difficult to call it correctly at the start of the season when we have to put everything in place.  If we use this track again (unlikely if the comments from Bernie and Neil reflect the majority opinion) then we could go for 1.008 for the Honda.

The race pace factors for the rest of this season's D1 races are all in the Pit Stop Calculator too.  If anybody thinks they are wildly out I can ask Clive as the Divisional Mod to consider revising them.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2008, 08:56:44 PM +0100 by Phil Thornton » Logged
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« Reply #7 on: October 19, 2008, 08:27:11 PM +0100 »

Really not sure I can endure 14 runs down the Mulsanne tonight so I will give this one a miss and hope it doesn't effect my championship position too much!
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« Reply #8 on: October 19, 2008, 08:54:14 PM +0100 »

I see Honda has a longer stop than the Ferrari. Again the issue of using WRs or something for calculating pitstops and not taking reliability in account. There's no way in hell you can be faster in a race with the Honda than with the Ferrari and make it to the end to tell about it. I dare anyone who thinks it's possible to do it, I'd call him/her the luckiest person ever!  Cheesy
We have tried to take reliability into account this season.  Have a look at the Pit Stop Calculator and you will see we have introduced a race pace factor for Division 1.  The Pit Stops are still based on WR times as we need some logical basis on which to calculate the stops.  The race pace factor for the Honda and Ferrari is 1.005.  This effectively shortens the Pit Stops for the faster cars to compensate for reliability etc.  Using a race Pace Factor for the Honda of 1.008 (effectively lengthens the Honda WR time by 0.8%) would bring the Pit Stop down from 33 to 25 seconds.  Maybe that would have been more appropriate in this case but it is difficult to call it correctly at the start of the season when we have to put everything in place.  If we use this track again (unlikely judging by the comments) then we could go for 1.008 for the Honda.

The race pace factors for the rest of this season's D1 races are all in the Pit Stop Calculator too.  If anybody thinks they are wildly out I can ask Clive as the Divisional Mod to consider revising them.

I realize it's difficult to have a balance over an entire season unless the pitstop lengths are calculated separately for each race taking the characteristics of each track, so it was more of a joke than blaming anyone. I'm not sure how much of a loss in time there would be by running a safe 5th gear ratio in the Honda on this track and also short shifting up the gears, but I predict some 1-2 secs over a lap, perhaps even more if you really want to be on the safe side. At the same time the Ferrari is so robust you can even get away by running qualifying gearing. But anyway, those are details and of course they're not so valid for different tracks. So it's up to those who calculate the pitstop times if they're willing to bother with analysing each track in advance and separately.
I actually like this one for a race, but not for running alone, but in a race you can have good battles as I can remember from our French series in B.R.E.A.S.T.S. some years ago. It would've worked great in the old Masters division with the top in standings taking slower cars thus giving chance of people down on points to move up with a better chance than at any other track (even more so than say Spa or Monza), but I guess that's not the case in D1.
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« Reply #9 on: October 19, 2008, 10:03:28 PM +0100 »

I realize it's difficult to have a balance over an entire season unless the pitstop lengths are calculated separately for each race taking the characteristics of each track...
Well that's the idea.  I've written the spreadsheet to be capable of doing that, but it still means someone has to plug in the right numbers.  That's not an easy thing to do, someone has to know the characteristics of each car and each track or trawl through reams of historical data.  Other than that all we can do is make a judgement after each race this season and suggest revisions to the current race pace factors.
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« Reply #10 on: October 19, 2008, 10:10:50 PM +0100 »

Well another disastrous race for me Sad.  Out on Lap 1 again.  Not really at fault just bad luck, slowed down for an incident and got rear ended.  Reminds me a bit of John Roberts Masters races in S13, always in the wrong place at the wrong time.  Anyway hoping for better luck at Kyalami.
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« Reply #11 on: October 19, 2008, 10:31:02 PM +0100 »

Found out today I cant count , missed the pit in window , then got lost counting down from 53 secs  Embarrassed   (then got disco'd for being sationary too long )

My only excuse , Its a long time since I was at skewl  Roll Eyes

Managed to navigate the T1 madness then later was shaping up for a scrap with Ken after his pit stop  but got meself bunkered and by the time I'd dug the car out everyone was on ther way home.

I then  kept the crowds entertained for a while, making sand pies , they do make a change from meat and spud but do grind a bit , suppose you could say "there Grate " )  Grin

Will be away on hols for the Sefafrican GP so hope you all enjoy the w/e  Wink

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« Reply #12 on: October 20, 2008, 05:18:41 AM +0100 »

Good and bad for me....
First D1 pole? I think...

Yet Burt called for someone to beat off the line and sadly that ended up being me, after my engine started smoking as the flag dropped  Angry!

Managed to get out of the way so Ken could pass  Shocked, did 2 slow laps and the engine gave out.

I agree on the pitstops... I'd say the Honda is probably the only one that should get the extra calculations ~ The other 6 cars can all be driven with full revs in the race, just with varying degrees of tolerance to mis-shifts and over-revs. Whereas you could run an error-free race in the Honda capped at 10,750rpm and still blow the damn thing !  Embarrassed

It'd just be up to either guesswork or looking at data. I'd suggest guesswork - after a while we'd be pretty spot on I think. And I can't see everyone plumping for the Honda in the meantime, seeking an advantage - Even if that did happen, I think we'd see a lot of engine blows........  laugh

Hakkinen @ Spain 2001 anybody?  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #13 on: October 20, 2008, 10:50:41 AM +0100 »

Well that wasnt much good.

Off the line i got fairly decent start, then all of sudden Phil put anchors out and I had to as well, Phil went upside down (sorry Phil) but luckily i could continue.
3-4 laps in race i struck the wall, and then lost 2 wheels, and it was over :/
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« Reply #14 on: October 20, 2008, 12:57:27 PM +0100 »

Quote
I agree on the pitstops... I'd say the Honda is probably the only one that should get the extra calculations ~ The other 6 cars can all be driven with full revs in the race, just with varying degrees of tolerance to mis-shifts and over-revs. Whereas you could run

I seem to remember in "real life" the H16 BRM had the worst reliability record , unless farther time has blurred my memory more than I can remember iyswim  Grin

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