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  • S16Dc Kyalami: December 07, 2008
December 07, 2008, 09:06:44 PM +0000 - Kyalami (1961-67) - UKGPL Season 16 (2008) Clubmans '67
Driver
 Team
Nat. Make Model Class Qualifying Race
Tyres Pos Time/Gap Pos Time/Gap Laps Stops Best Retirement
reason
Ballast
b_1_rd
 Soggy Bottom Racers Club
Brabham BT24 (Repco) F1 1967 4 +0.467
110.654mph
1 33:53.063
108.121mph
24 1:22.859
110.538mph
Goodyear  
Burtoner
 Soggy Bottom Racers Club
Cooper T81b (Maserati) F1 1967 8 +1.567
109.203mph
3 +9.700
107.608mph
24 1:22.623
110.854mph
Firestone  
Geoff65
 
Brabham BT24 (Repco) F1 1967 5 +0.750
110.277mph
4 +13.522
107.407mph
24 1:23.117
110.195mph
Goodyear  
bernie
 Soggy Bottom Racers Club
Cooper T81b (Maserati) F1 1967 2 +0.179
111.041mph
5 (+3) +16.177
107.268mph
24 1:22.464
111.067mph
Firestone  
Michael Turner
 Soggy Bottom Racers Club
Eagle T1G (Weslake 1967) F1 1967 7 +1.155
109.742mph
6 +38.728
106.100mph
24 1:22.957
110.407mph
Goodyear  
Ian Stanley
 Reed Racing
BRM P115 F1 1967 3 +0.293
110.887mph
7 +47.039
105.676mph
24 1:22.514
111.000mph
Goodyear  
Craig Thomas
 
Eagle T1G (Weslake 1967) F1 1967 6 +1.001
109.945mph
8 +1L
102.679mph
23 1:23.394
109.829mph
Goodyear  
James Andrew
 
Brabham BT24 (Repco) F1 1967 9 +2.294
108.264mph
9 +2L
98.274mph
22 1:25.142
107.574mph
Goodyear  
Turkey Machine
 
Eagle T1G (Weslake 1967) F1 1967 11 10 +19L
108.784mph
5 1:21.280
112.685mph
Disco
Goodyear  
RIKBRIANT
  Team Backwards Racing
Cooper T81b (Maserati) F1 1967 1 1:22.305
111.282mph
11 DNS ---
---
Firestone  
5 UKGPL
 
Honda RA300 F1 1967 10 12 ---
---
Firestone  
Asbjeurn Tverberg
 
Ferrari 312 (1967) F1 1967 12 Excluded +0L
108.070mph
24 1:21.823
111.938mph
Firestone  

Moderator's Report

Summary

A fine win for Steve Bird with Burt picking up second place on the podium after an incident packed race. Asbjeurn's disqualification also promotes Geoff Heard onto the podium for the first time in the Clubman's division. Well done!


Server replay time: 0h00m48s

Lap 1 - Start Line - Craig Thomas, Michael Tuner and Robert Burton

Michael gets a better start than Craig but as he shifts into second gear a little too much throttle induces some wheel spin. Michael veers across the track taking out Craig. Robert cannot avoid the carnage. Craig and Robert are entitled to no-fault shift Rs.

Clearly this incident was caused by Michael's over exuberance on the throttle with cold tyres. In general, lack of skill is not penalised in UKGPL, only lack of judgement. However start line incidents can have such a catastrophic affect on everyone's race, some degree of admonishment is appropriate in this case.

Advice: The power side ramp angle settings in the differential have a significant affect on the stability of the car under heavy acceleration. Before a race, experiment with the power side settings to ensure you have a stable car under heavy acceleration on cold tyres. If you do decide to compromise your settings to optimise your overall lap times, please ensure you know how much throttle to use at the start to ensure you do NOT snake off the line and risk collecting other cars.


Server replay time: 0h04m26s

Lap3 - Jukskei Sweep - James Andrew and Robert Burton

Robert is putting James under tremendous pressure but his Cooper doesn't have the legs to get past James' Brabham on the straight. In his efforts to keep Burt at bay, James runs wide in Barbeque Bend. He looses momentum and Burt manages to get along side on the approach to the Jukskei Sweep. James is in no mood to yield easily and fights for the corner. The cars enter the corner side by side and warp contact is made punting Burt off.

The car on the outside is always going to be at risk of warp in this situation. Both cars were entitle to fight for the position.

  • Racing incident


Server replay time: 0h07m54s

Lap 6 - Main Straight - Asbjeurn Tverberg and Bernie Darwin

Asbjeurn gets a run on Bernie and pulls out of his slipstream to pass. Unfortunately he gets a little too close and warp contact is made causing Bernie to spin out and Asbjeurn to veer off and through the pit wall unscathed.

Although the actual contact was warp assisted, Asbjeurn was far too close when he pulled out to overtake. Drivers must take account of possible warp contact in situations like this. However, of more significance is the absence of the pit wall on Asbjeurn's client. The rules are quite clear on this and although the presence of the pit wall cannot be checked for directly, cars driving unscathed through the pit wall can only mean one thing. Asbjeurn had genuinely forgotten to re-install the pit wall but he was aware of the consequences if he drove through it. No unfair advantage was intended, nevertheless honourable intentions are not a good enough reason the relax the rules and a disqualification must be enforced.


Server replay time: 0h08m08s

Lap 6 - Main Straight - Bernie Darwin and Ian Stanley

After his shunt with Asbjeurn, Bernie ends up on the grass verge facing the wrong way. He attempts a rejoin but ends up practically stationary on the racing line on the fastest part of the track. Unfortunately Ian is approaching on full chat and catastrophic contact is made.

Bernie should have made absolutely sure there were no cars approaching before he attempted a rejoin by driving onto the racing line. If this was not possible (i.e. no Pribluda to rely on) then he should have used the F10 chase view to help manoeuvre the car through a 3 point turn on the grass. There is a very large verge here.


Server replay time: 0h10m05s

Lap 7 - Crowthorne Corner - James Andrew and Michael Turner

James appears to outbrake himself rear-ending Michael. However on closer inspection Michael is travelling much slower than could reasonably be expected. His corner entry speed is 71mph compared with the 107mph achieved by the leading drivers (and James on one or two of his better laps). On this lap, James' entry speed was well within his ability to control.

No appreciable blame can be apportioned to either driver in this case.

  • Racing incident

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Author Topic: UKGPL Season 16 (2008) Clubmans \'67 - Kyalami - Dec 7  (Read 8782 times)
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bernie
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« Reply #30 on: December 09, 2008, 11:29:06 AM +0000 »

Ian

We all know how crappy the dutch flag marshals are but I  doubt if you could have avoided me even if a brass band had turned out  Grin

T'was a really bad place to have an "acco" and probably the most unlikely spot on the track. Sorry if I ruined your day m8 , not much time to react after I saw you aproaching the scene , must admit I did have my eyes shut at the time but that didnt seem to help much  Shocked

Noticed Burt got through by the skin of his teeth , he deserves a bit of luck , the race gods were with him this time and  a podium finish might stop him throwing the towel in again for at least another 2 weeks  Cheesy

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Clive Loynes
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« Reply #31 on: December 09, 2008, 11:39:15 AM +0000 »

Congratulations to Steve on his win and to Burt and Bernie on their results too.

Nice n Soggy!  Grin
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Asbjeurn Tverberg
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« Reply #32 on: December 09, 2008, 01:33:02 PM +0000 »

I did noticed that looking at replay this morning before i was going to post, i knew Asbjeurn didnt have pitwall installed after he overtook me and bernie, so perhaps he might get DQ for it, but also the incident up front, could cost him that 2nd place, that I might claim.
I'm not sure what you mean by this "incident up front". Could you please enlighten me? Otherwise about the pit wall, did you see me driving through the pit wall? Then I should be DQ'ed, but as I said before, I tried to stay clear of it and wait untill we reached the end of the pit lane before I made the move, but I may have touched/driven through it towards the end of the pit lane.

@Bernie: If I'm one of those you're pointing towards with your comments, I must say that my unsuccessful first attempt to pass you was more a result of me not being used to being faster than others, and thus being in a position to pass, than being used to driving -65's. Back in my NGPLS days I was the one being passed by others, or being lapped. I'm a lot better at being passed/lapped than I am at passing/lapping. I had another moment when I tried to pass another car before the kink on the pit straight. With a bot more experience with being faster than others, I would have waited until after the kink before I made the pass, or backed off after finding out that I couldn't get past in a safe manner before the kink. I still have a lot to learn about this racing phenomenon. Smiley
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Burtoner
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« Reply #33 on: December 09, 2008, 03:01:36 PM +0000 »

Sorry what i was saying was when i went past pit lane there was 2 cars coming out, 2 cars ahead very slow also and lots of skid marks on the road, which i just sailed by to get into 3rd place at time. I havent looked at replay yet to see what causes were and who was exactly involved.
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Asbjeurn Tverberg
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« Reply #34 on: December 10, 2008, 07:14:01 AM +0000 »

Ah! I guess that was just after I had pushed Bernie away. I slowed down just after the pits to wait for him, and while I did so, a car skidded along on the grass on the left of the track, you passed, and I think another car was spinning behind me, before Bernie passed me again. I guess there was another pass that failed on the pit straight.
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bernie
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« Reply #35 on: December 10, 2008, 04:07:49 PM +0000 »

Quote
Bernie: If I'm one of those you're pointing towards with your comments, I must say that my unsuccessful first attempt to pass you was more a result of me not being used to being faster than others, and thus being in a position to pass, than being used to driving -65's. Back in my NGPLS days I was the one being passed by others, or being lapped. I'm a lot better at being passed/lapped than I am at passing/lapping. I had another moment when I tried to pass another car before the kink on the pit straight. With a bot more experience with being faster than others, I would have waited until after the kink before I made the pass, or backed off after finding out that I couldn't get past in a safe manner before the kink. I still have a lot to learn about this racing phenomenon


Exactly the point I was trying to make , Not trying to ridicule you in any way but perhaps you should  read the guidelines for on line racing, then you might better understand how easy it is to cause a collision when overtaking  (there is a link some where to the GPL online racing guide or whatever its called, perhaps some one can point you to it  )

Please realise you are very welcome to race alongside me , I look forward to doing so,  however If you are having problems  passing  someone on a long straight with a faster car and the aid of a tow , then I would say you need to drive with a bit more caution . after all I wasnt even attempting to defend my place , I had already accepted the fact you were quite a lot faster and left you 2/3rds of the track to get by me .

Having said that,  we all make mistakes,  especially in the heat of battle , just lets learn from them and get to enjoy some good clean fun racing which is what CC series is all about . After all its not my place to lay down the rules and tell You how to drive , we can leave that job to the Mods .

 Smiley Smiley Smiley





     
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Asbjeurn Tverberg
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« Reply #36 on: December 10, 2008, 08:46:06 PM +0000 »

I have read the guidelines for online racing. I guess I just wasn't prepared for being so much faster than another driver that passing would be a problem for that reason, and I was more careful at the other occasions, except for not seeing the pit wall, Wink and of course I will be more careful in the future.
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Asbjeurn Tverberg
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« Reply #37 on: January 09, 2009, 11:19:32 AM +0000 »

Hm, I see now that I'm marked as excluded. Does this mean that I'm excluded from the rest of the season in Clubman's, or is it just another way of saying I'm disqualified from this particular race?
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Phil Thornton
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« Reply #38 on: January 09, 2009, 08:20:29 PM +0000 »

Hm, I see now that I'm marked as excluded. Does this mean that I'm excluded from the rest of the season in Clubman's,
absolutely not, you are more than welcome to compete in the rest of the season.

Quote
or is it just another way of saying I'm disqualified from this particular race?
Yes.  The words are automatically generated by by the SRou database that generates the web pages. I don't have any control over that.

I am well aware of the fact that being disqualified over a technicality in your first Clubmans race is somewhat disheartening and I was very reluctant to invoke the rule.  However, I must be fair to the other drivers, notably Burt who is challenging for the Title and would benefit greatly from the extra points he gained from your unfortunate disqualification.  If you hadn't clipped Bernie and consequently driven through the pit wall there would have been no evidence and hence no reason to disqualify you.

It has been a long standing rule in UKGPL that disqualification is the only reward for technical infringements like this.  I do think it is harsh and I have often though about an alternative punishment.  I cannot change the rules mid season, perhaps the membership could discuss this in the off season.

I hope this event has not put you off UKGPL, your results in the novices prove you have got the talent.  We need more fast competitive drivers like you in UKGPL.
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Asbjeurn Tverberg
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« Reply #39 on: January 09, 2009, 09:03:53 PM +0000 »

No problem at all. Rules are rules, and are meant to be obeyed. Smiley I would feel bad if I later found out that I should have been disqualified, and that my mistake directly affected the end result of the season, espaecially sionce I don't compete for any top place myself. I'm just glad that I'm allowed to take part in the rest of the season. Smiley
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