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  • S16Dn Monza: February 03, 2009
February 03, 2009, 09:48:40 PM +0000 - Monza (GP 1955-71) - UKGPL Season 16 (2008) Novice '65
Driver
 Team
Nat. Make Model Class Qualifying Race
Tyres Pos Time/Gap Pos Time/Gap Laps Stops Best Retirement
reason
Ballast
FullMetalGasket
 
Honda RA272 F1 1965 1 1:37.112
132.423mph
1 34:20.715
131.050mph
21 1:37.415
132.011mph
Goodyear  
Turkey Machine
 
BRM P261 (1965) F1 1965 2 +0.081
132.313mph
2 +12.819
130.240mph
21 1:37.365
132.079mph
Dunlop  
Will Tway
 Crash 'N' Burn Racing
Honda RA272 F1 1965 5 +0.464
131.794mph
3 +23.923
129.547mph
21 1:38.045
131.163mph
Goodyear  
Storm_Cloud
 
Lotus 33 (Climax 1965) F1 1965 8 +0.872
131.245mph
4 +34.043
128.921mph
21 1:38.220
130.929mph
Dunlop  
EvilClive
 
Cooper T77 (Climax) F1 1965 13 +1.640
130.224mph
5 (+3) +42.919
128.377mph
21 1:38.959
129.952mph
Dunlop  
NickyIckx
 
Ferrari 512 F1 1965 4 +0.276
132.048mph
6 +45.600
128.213mph
21 1:37.763
131.541mph
Dunlop  
natan5
 
Lotus 33 (Climax 1965) F1 1965 6 +0.521
131.717mph
7 (+1) +56.254
127.568mph
21 1:37.924
131.325mph
Dunlop  
Jack O'Ferrall
 Reed Racing
BRM P261 (1965) F1 1965 14 +1.950
129.817mph
8 +1:08.197
126.852mph
21 1:39.263
129.554mph
Dunlop  
fpolicardi
 Team7
Cooper T77 (Climax) F1 1965 12 +1.362
130.592mph
9 +1:09.096
126.799mph
21 1:38.816
130.140mph
Dunlop  
happyal
 
Ferrari 512 F1 1965 9 +0.900
131.207mph
10 +1:09.797
126.757mph
21 1:38.005
131.217mph
Dunlop  
Clive Loynes
 Soggy Bottom Racers Club
Brabham BT7 (Climax) F1 1965 11 +1.289
130.689mph
11 +1:20.370
126.131mph
21 1:38.508
130.547mph
Dunlop  
Burtoner
 Soggy Bottom Racers Club
Brabham BT11 (Climax) F1 1965 15 +2.277
129.389mph
12 (+2) +1L
124.020mph
20 1:38.862
130.079mph
Goodyear  
Ken Murray
 Soggy Bottom Racers Club
Brabham BT7 (Climax) F1 1965 10 +1.204
130.802mph
13 +54.900
120.822mph
20 1:38.660
130.345mph
Dunlop  
Hristo Itchov
 HikiWazaRacing
Cooper T77 (Climax) F1 1965 7 +0.790
131.355mph
14 +2L
129.066mph
19 1:38.155
131.016mph
Dunlop  
ginsters sponsored
 Kerb Crawlers
BRM P261 (1965) F1 1965 3 +0.107
132.278mph
15 +17L
122.347mph
4 1:38.644
130.367mph
accident
Dunlop  
4 UKGPL
 
Brabham BT7 (Climax) F1 1965 16 DNS ---
---
Dunlop  

Moderator's Report

Tim gets his first win of the season to take the championship in style- and face immediate compulsory recruitment by the Wazas, who already have one Gazza-Waza! Hardlines for Natan, who fought hard and fairly all season, among a leading group of drivers who hadn't a chassis disadvantage. Next season, with two divisions from the outset, there should be the opportunity for some very equal racing.

The 65 mod is to be improved with a slipstream, with UKGPL's own John Roberts among the lead testers. Unusually the existing 5% top speed compensation might be retained, so that the cars will have a 'double tow'. It is supposed that rank times will then be unaffected. However, the ranks could just use the earlier .exe, as with the new one with the extra speed taken out, the cars would be slower on their own. I wouldn't like to have old rank times prevent more realistic racing, when this can easily be avoided.


Server replay time: 0h01m06s

L1 Curva Grande

Clive rear-ends Ken and sends him spinning. Burt makes the incident far worse when he first outbrakes Steve and slight contact sends Steve into the armco, then hits Fulvio who collides with Steve. Burt is finally stopped by a collision with Ken. Al hits Ken as well and Al's engine explodes.

Though it is too early for flags, Burt is too fast into the corner when there is a spinning car ahead.

Clive loses a further place for a Lap 1 incident.


Server replay time: 0h01m43s

L1 Lesmos

Burt rear-ends Steve into the first of the Lesmos, sending him into the armco.

Burt loses another place for a lap 1 incident.


Server replay time: 0h03m06s

L2 Lesmos

Hristo is inside Natan at the first of the Lesmos. Natan is far too much on Hristo's side of the track so that when Hristo hits the kerb the slight correction sends Natan into the armco.

Hristo was able to continue and if there had been no further consequence no penalty would have been applied, but Natan slews back onto the track and Storm, ginsters and Clive are all affected.

Natan also fails to take a stop-and-go after his reset.


Server replay time: 0h34m47s

L21 Lesmo

Nicky has the inside line approaching the first Lesmo and strays to the outer edge of his side, Clive on the outside line is close to the inner edge of his. This results in contact between them.

Nicky is too wide into the corner but the contact after Clive begins his turn seems to be very close to the centre line. Though it seems to be more Nicky than Clive both drivers might have been advised to remain more clearly on their side of the track. However, the wide line at the first Lesmo is by far the more difficult, and Clive was entitled to expect that Nicky might allow him more room.

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Author Topic: UKGPL Season 16 (2008-9) Novice '65 - Monza (GP 1955-71) - Feb 3  (Read 13016 times)
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Ken Murray
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« Reply #45 on: February 06, 2009, 10:27:12 PM +0000 »

Just one more thing to point out. The view behind on the diagram is the view from the mirrors. This is the same view in both left and right mirrors. The view you see in the mirrors is just the image from a centrally mounted camera on the back of a car. So that is why you only ever see a car that is directly behind you and it is impossible to see a car that is either on the left or right.
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Turkey Machine
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« Reply #46 on: February 06, 2009, 10:29:08 PM +0000 »

Just one more thing to point out. The view behind on the diagram is the view from the mirrors. This is the same view in both left and right mirrors. The view you see in the mirrors is just the image from a centrally mounted camera on the back of a car. So that is why you only ever see a car that is directly behind you and it is impossible to see a car that is either on the left or right.
To build on that, even with the "Look Left" and "Look Right" keys, your visibility is still reduced. The best viewpoint is chase-view, but that has major drawbacks when it comes to driving effectively with these cars; I can't describe it but others might be able to.
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Ken Murray
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« Reply #47 on: February 06, 2009, 10:35:50 PM +0000 »

Just one more thing to point out. The view behind on the diagram is the view from the mirrors. This is the same view in both left and right mirrors. The view you see in the mirrors is just the image from a centrally mounted camera on the back of a car. So that is why you only ever see a car that is directly behind you and it is impossible to see a car that is either on the left or right.
To build on that, even with the "Look Left" and "Look Right" keys, your visibility is still reduced. The best viewpoint is chase-view, but that has major drawbacks when it comes to driving effectively with these cars; I can't describe it but others might be able to.

One drawback is that while chase view has more peripheral vision it has no mirror at all. And also I think most of us prefer the virtual car racing experience rather than the virtual helicopter pilot experience.
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Clive Loynes
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« Reply #48 on: February 07, 2009, 08:51:19 AM +0000 »

I have a button programmed on my wheel to flick to chase view.  I used to use it a lot when I was starting out with GPL but these days I have become better at knowing where everyone has gone to from the last view in my mirrors.  As has been said.  I general if they have disappeared then you assume they are alongside.

I wouldn't recommend the look left or right buttons unless stationary.  For me it would be an almost certain crash.  Just can't decouple my arms from my brain when the new view arrives and I just steer into what suddenly appears as an almighty drift.

They can be usefull when rejoining and you have managed to perch yourself somewhere that doesn't allow you to see who is bearing down on you.
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Ken Murray
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« Reply #49 on: February 07, 2009, 09:30:55 AM +0000 »

I have a button programmed on my wheel to flick to chase view.  I used to use it a lot when I was starting out with GPL but these days I have become better at knowing where everyone has gone to from the last view in my mirrors.  As has been said.  I general if they have disappeared then you assume they are alongside.

I wouldn't recommend the look left or right buttons unless stationary.  For me it would be an almost certain crash.  Just can't decouple my arms from my brain when the new view arrives and I just steer into what suddenly appears as an almighty drift.

They can be usefull when rejoining and you have managed to perch yourself somewhere that doesn't allow you to see who is bearing down on you.

I used to have similar difficulties with look left and right but I have trained my brain to cope. The key is not to linger on the view, I only flick the wheel button for a very brief glimpse, but enough to see if someone is there.
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EvilClive
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« Reply #50 on: February 07, 2009, 10:21:38 AM +0000 »

Exactly what I have set up Ken.. Its invaluable when things seem to be getting close, and a glimpse is all you need.
Of course it does not stop you rear ending an innocent party who is in plain view occasionally...... Roll Eyes Undecided
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Clive Loynes
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« Reply #51 on: February 07, 2009, 10:40:02 AM +0000 »

...................Of course it does not stop you rear ending an innocent party who is in plain view occasionally...... Roll Eyes Undecided

Ah!  You mean Evil Wheezer's signature crash.  Grin

I think that the ability to look to the sides is well worth having for the 66mod.  And if they are really going to bugger about with 65s then that as well.  At present, in 67 and 65, you usually only need to deal with one attach at a time but in 66s at somewhere like Monza they can come at you in bunches.  You move out of one bloke's way and end up getting a hail of abuse from the guy you have just sent into the trees on the other side.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2009, 10:45:50 AM +0000 by Clive Loynes » Logged

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Ken Murray
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« Reply #52 on: February 07, 2009, 11:08:13 AM +0000 »

...................Of course it does not stop you rear ending an innocent party who is in plain view occasionally...... Roll Eyes Undecided

Ah!  You mean Evil Wheezer's signature crash.  Grin

I think that the ability to look to the sides is well worth having for the 66mod.  And if they are really going to bugger about with 65s then that as well.  At present, in 67 and 65, you usually only need to deal with one attach at a time but in 66s at somewhere like Monza they can come at you in bunches.  You move out of one bloke's way and end up getting a hail of abuse from the guy you have just sent into the trees on the other side.

Yes, it was while beta testing the 66 mod that I honed my look left/right skills!! I didn't even have any mirrors at all!! They kept changing the car 3dos so it was pointless spending time editing them to create my virtual mirrors and I just can't drive at default FOV's anymore!!
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Asbjeurn Tverberg
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« Reply #53 on: February 07, 2009, 09:50:44 PM +0000 »

Interesting discussion. I've had my share of crashes caused by my not so successful attempts to pass other drivers, but I don't blame the collision boxes for those, only my own clumsiness.  laugh

Anyway: First of all a big thank you to the organisers of this league. I have a few years of league experience, from NGPLS, and although I'm not dissatisfied with the way that league was run, I must say that I'm impressed by how profesionally UKGPL is run, compared to NGPLS. Kudos to everyone involved! thumbup1

I'm very pleased with the way my race started and how it ended. Only some messup in the middle put a stain on my performance. I knew before the race that this track invited for some side by side battles, so I decieded to take a bit of an unusual approach to the practice. I drove on one side of the track the whole lap through for a whole stint, then the next stint I changed side. I managed to get below 1:40 driving on the outside of the track, and the training method was effective. In the race I felt much more secure when I got side by side with another driver through the turns.

The qually was a bit weird. Early on Norbert was on pole with 1:38.68, according to my pribluda. A few laps later I got a 1:38.68 also! After a while both me and Norbert was pushed down the list by other drivers, so I had to push on. However, I was not able to get a proper lap, but I managed another 1:38.68! Later I improved my time with a few hundredths, but didn't gain any places, so I ended on 6th, but three almost identical times on the same qually, that's weird! Shocked

Race start. I had Norbert on my right, and Clutch in front. Clutch had a bad start, and I had to back off a little and wait for him to get up to speed. For some reason he slid to the right, and opened up for me to pass him on the left. Norbert came up on his right. I thought I gave him room, but I see now in GPLRA that me and Norbert really squeezed him between us. It's a wonder that didn't end in a massacre!

I got past Clutch safely, and had more speed than Norbert, so I gained to places before Curva Grande. Alastair and Mike was side by side in front of me, Alastair on the outside, which he apparently didn't feel comfortable with, (He should try my training methods! Tongue) so he backed off and lost speed, so Mike got away. I had a better line, and soon got onto his slipstream, so towards Lesmo 1 I was able to get up on his side and outbraked him so we went side by side through the turn. Thanks to my practice, I was able to keep up the speed, and again, Alastair had to let another one through thanks to his insecurity in those situations.

Next one was Mike. I had to work a bit harder to catch him, but already on lap two I slipstreamed past him going towards Parabolica. He tried to take a defencive line on the right, so I went for the outside through the turn. I stayed there through the whole turn, just to make sure not to crash. We went side by side on to the front stretch and towards Curva Grande, and I thought to myself: "I won't back off! I won't back off!" So he backed off, and I was past.

Now I thought this was the best I could get from this race. I never thought that I had a chance in hell to catch Bartosz. He was so fast during practice that I thought he would pull away from all of us. Well, qualifying is one thing, racing is another, apparently. Somehow I managed to reel him in slowly, and he had a bad line through Curva Grande a couple of times, so by lap 6 I was 0.7 seconds behind him. Entering lap 8 I was less than 0.7 seconds behind, and not far from catching his slipstream.

I guess I got a bit eager now, and lost my head a little. I got a bad entrance to Curva Grande and spun. It could have gone well, if it wasn't for Norbert and Clutch approaching. While truying to avoid me, they crashed into each other. Norbert spun into the rail, and I lurked past him, but hit Clutch, who spun in front of me. Mike sneaked by this mayhem unscathed, while Geoff only just touched me, enough to send him spinning off the track and into the rail. Norbert and Clutch got away, while I needed a couple of seconds to collect myself. When I finally got going again, Geoff was still stuck in the grass. I was a little hot still, and messed it up in Lesmo 1 as well, before I pulled myself together. I had lost enough time now!

Now I thought that Norbert and Clutch was too far ahead for me to catch them, so I kind of settled in for fifth. After a few laps, though, I realised that I gave myself a too large margin in the braking to Parabolica. Norbert and Clutch didn't pull away, so I knew then that I could catch them if I braked a little later there. I started hunting them down, and it didn't take long before I had them within reach.

So when Clutch had a bad entrance to Lesmo 1, I got up on his tail before Lesmo 2, and got a better exit onto the back stretch. Now an almost epic fight began. I got up on his side and we went side by side through Ascari.I outbraked him towards Parabolica and got a bit wide, so he came up on my inside and we went side by side onto the front stretch. Having the outside line, I got better speed onto the straight and got ahead, but he got into my slipstream and got past before Curva Grande. Now it was my turn to slipstream him, and I got past and went first into Lesmo 1. Braked a little late and lost a little speed, so he got on my tail again, but I got a better exit out of Lesmo 2, and pulled away. Now Norbert was my target.

While I and Clutch fought for fourth place, Norbert had the opportunity to pull away a little, so I had to really push to catch him, but I did. Lap by lap I got closer, and by lap 17 I was so close that I started aiming for his gearbox, to make use of every little trace of slipstream that might come my way. entering lap 21 I was so close that I really thought that I could make it. Exiting the Lesmos I got into his slipstream and passed him on the outside going towards Parabolica. I got a bit wide through there and thought he would be on my tail going onto the front straight, but he didn't, and third place was mine! In the last turn on the last lap!

I can't remember ever being so happy for a third place. I cheered and yelled so much that I was afraid I'd wake my one yera old son, who was sleeping in the bedroom nearby, so I had to control myself. It was a really hard fight, all through the race, so I was really pleased with myself. Only the mistake(s) on lap 8 flawed an otherwise perfect race.
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Hristo Itchov
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« Reply #54 on: February 08, 2009, 09:53:36 AM +0000 »

...................Of course it does not stop you rear ending an innocent party who is in plain view occasionally...... Roll Eyes Undecided

Ah!  You mean Evil Wheezer's signature crash.  Grin

I think that the ability to look to the sides is well worth having for the 66mod.  And if they are really going to bugger about with 65s then that as well.  At present, in 67 and 65, you usually only need to deal with one attach at a time but in 66s at somewhere like Monza they can come at you in bunches.  You move out of one bloke's way and end up getting a hail of abuse from the guy you have just sent into the trees on the other side.

Yes, it was while beta testing the 66 mod that I honed my look left/right skills!! I didn't even have any mirrors at all!! They kept changing the car 3dos so it was pointless spending time editing them to create my virtual mirrors and I just can't drive at default FOV's anymore!!

Good points Ken and Clives, but you forget it's just much easier to rely on the car's engine sound to judge where someone is. I find it more than enough most of the time, except when there's a bigger group and you can't distinguish who is who. As for looking left and right, like you say - a glimpse is enough. Focusing on the sound and trusting your ears more than your eyes in general seems to be a good practice. Vision can be so deceiving.
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FullMetalGasket
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« Reply #55 on: February 08, 2009, 10:59:13 AM +0000 »

Your eyes can deceive you, stretch out with your feelings and let the force flow through you.

Sorry, but someone had to  Grin
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Asbjeurn Tverberg
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« Reply #56 on: February 08, 2009, 09:47:25 PM +0000 »

 laugh

I drive by a simple rule. If I hear (an)other car(s), I just keep my side of the track until it's gone, either past or behind.

Edit:The rule is simple, but obeying it isn't always easy. Wink
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Clive Loynes
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« Reply #57 on: February 13, 2009, 12:05:02 PM +0000 »

Graham Poole's Monza efforts seem to have been attributed to GrahamP again.

How does that happen and is there anything that Graham can do to fix it?
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Jack O'Ferrall
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« Reply #58 on: February 13, 2009, 06:25:44 PM +0000 »

I've corrected the entry.  There's nothing Graham needs to do.  There was an entry for him as 'GrahamP defunct' in LM2 as well as G Poole, I'd supposed that the correction to the last race would take precedence.  However, I have since acted and 'GrahamP defunct' has been expunged!  If he'd wanted two names he should have used a hyphen like any normal man, or Loot's old chum Lord Justice Potter-Hesiod, who most certainly isn't normal.  
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miner2049er
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« Reply #59 on: February 13, 2009, 06:36:59 PM +0000 »

If he'd wanted two names he should have used a hyphen like any normal man, or Loot's old chum Lord Justice Potter-Hesiod, who most certainly isn't normal.

.... or a Lord.
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