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  • S17Dn Spa: March 03, 2009
March 03, 2009, 09:49:05 PM +0000 - Spa (GPL) - UKGPL Season 17 (2009) Novices Trophy
Driver
 Team
Nat. Make Model Class Qualifying Race
Tyres Pos Time/Gap Pos Time/Gap Laps Stops Best Retirement
reason
Ballast
Clutch4
 Mountside Racing
Brabham BT11 (Climax) F1 1965 1 3:40.613
---
1 37:16.143
---
10 3:41.198
---
Goodyear  
maestro57
 
Brabham BT11 (Climax) F1 1965 2 +0.285
---
2 +12.539
---
10 3:41.174
---
Goodyear  
Jim Hurtubise
 
BRM P261 (1965) F1 1965 4 +0.673
---
3 (+1) +17.610
---
10 3:40.769
---
Dunlop  
roguk
 
Ferrari 512 F1 1965 5 +1.427
---
4 +36.019
---
10 3:41.096
---
Dunlop  
happyal
 Clark-Hill Racing
Lotus 33 (Climax 1965) F1 1965 3 +0.588
---
5 +43.568
---
10 3:40.510
---
Dunlop  
miner2049er
 Clark-Hill Racing
Lotus 33 (Climax 1965) F1 1965 7 +1.700
---
6 +57.734
---
10 3:42.692
---
Dunlop  
NHance
 Mountside Racing
Brabham BT11 (Climax) F1 1965 6 +1.695
---
7 +1:03.235
---
10 3:43.144
---
Goodyear  
norbert
 Antipasti Racing
Ferrari 512 F1 1965 12 +3.498
---
8 +1:32.265
---
10 3:46.173
---
Dunlop  
Glyn Lloyd
 
Brabham BT7 (Climax) F1 1965 11 +3.405
---
9 +1:48.141
---
10 3:44.389
---
Dunlop  
Hezemans
 
BRM P261 (1965) F1 1965 13 +3.975
---
10 +1:53.195
---
10 3:44.068
---
Dunlop  
BookieW
 
Honda RA272 F1 1965 8 +2.279
---
11 +1:58.888
---
10 3:45.377
---
Goodyear  
G Poole
 
Brabham BT11 (Climax) F1 1965 17 +6.570
---
12 +2:01.648
---
10 3:46.746
---
Goodyear  
vosblod
 Clark-Hill Racing
Lotus 33 (Climax 1965) F1 1965 10 +3.276
---
13 +2:07.478
---
10 3:44.835
---
Dunlop  
AuldenA
 
Brabham BT7 (Climax) F1 1965 14 +5.139
---
14 +2:11.791
---
10 3:44.090
---
Dunlop  
Burtoner
 Soggy Bottom Racers Club
Brabham BT7 (Climax) F1 1965 15 +5.539
---
15 (+1) +2:23.693
---
10 3:46.082
---
Dunlop  
bernie
 Soggy Bottom Racers Club
Cooper T77 (Climax) F1 1965 9 +2.287
---
16 (+3) +2:39.490
---
10 3:45.352
---
Dunlop  
il_lupo_mannaro
 
Ferrari 512 F1 1965 16 +5.564
---
17 (+1) +3:03.955
---
10 3:46.117
---
Dunlop  
Billy Nobrakes
 
BRM P261 (1965) F1 1965 18 +11.869
---
18 +3L
---
7 3:52.804
---
Dunlop  
5 UKGPL
 
Lotus 33 (Climax 1965) F1 1965 DNS ---
---
Dunlop  

Moderator's Report

Excellent win for Clutch with the BT11 for the debut of Mountside Racing, and Peter a fine second with the same chassis. Roger and Jim also raced well. The slower chassis will be far more competitive at Albi- though it's fast, at least its tight!

A good grid for the first race of the Novices season, though I hadn't realised that we needed to create a new track65.ini so we ended up with a tight grid, my apologies. However the more experienced drivers contributed more than they should have to the pile-up, and might be advised to rely more on consistency than rocket starts.


Server replay time: 0h00m49s

L1 S/F

Graham and Billy collide off the line, neither much to blame, rather the tight grid.

  • Racing incident


Server replay time: 0h00m53s

L1 S/F

Bookie has been tapped from behind by Hezemans and has Burt overtaking him on the left, he moves over too much and collides with Vos. Again, I'm going to put this down to the tight grid.

  • Racing incident


Server replay time: 0h00m54s

L1 L'Eau Rouge

Bernie attempts to squeeze outside NHance at L'Eau Rouge, when there is only barely the width of a car to aim for, and though the server has no contact Nhance veers off to the right.

Many drivers were affected while Bernie got away scot-free. There were murmurs about 'poetic justice' and a 'criminal element' in the reports (though I made that last one up). However, with no contact and the cars not clearly moving closer together, there has to be some leniency. Get together and drink the club out of his favourite sherry?

  • Racing incident


Server replay time: 0h01m16s

L1 L'Eau Rouge

Burt seems to block the outside somewhat after his reset, but when NHance takes the opportunity to pass him and several others on the inside there is side-to-side contact. Only Burt and NHance are affected though.

It's difficult to pass so many cars at once, Burt could claim to be unsighted.

  • Racing incident


Server replay time: 0h02m11s

L1 Malmedy

Hurtubise goes out of control and Bernie clips him.

  • Racing incident


Server replay time: 0h02m20s

L1 Malmedy

Vos goes out of control at Malmedy and neither Nhance nor Mike can avoid him. With Norbert losing his car independently of this incident, and Aulden going out of control trying to avoid, there was another pile-up.

  • Racing incident


Server replay time: 0h04m36s

L1 Blanchimont

Burt rear-ended Nhance, his car was then hit by Aulden, but he can't claim a free reset as he was already upside-down!


Server replay time: 0h07m54s

L2 Stavelot

Billy has to reset at Stavelot and is then clipped by Vos.

  • Racing incident


Server replay time: 0h08m31s

L2 Source

Bernie rear-ended Fabio at Source.


Server replay time: 0h11m30s

L3 Masta

Billy struggled for control at Masta, Aulden had to attempt a pass and there was side-to-side contact.

  • Racing incident


Server replay time: 0h14m00s

L4 Masta

Al passes Hurtubise before Masta then hits the barriers, Hurtubise loses control also and they collide.

  • Racing incident


Server replay time: 0h19m58s

L5 Source

Bernie loses control at Source and eventually hits Mike. This was the first of two curious incidents involving Bernie. He appears to be nudged into a loss of control by Mike on the outside, but there was a fair amount of space between them on the server replay.

  • Racing incident


Server replay time: 0h20m42s

L6 Combes

Hezemans lost control and NHance could not avoid him.

  • Racing incident


Server replay time: 0h21m17s

L6 Burnenville

Bernie squeezes Mike at Burnenville and there is side-to-side contact. Though there is no clear contact on the server replay the cars were moving together, and Bernie has far too much of Mike's side of the track.


Server replay time: 0h24m19s

L7 Combes

Hezemans fails to stop-and-go after having destroyed an engine.


Server replay time: 0h26m49s

L7 Malmedy

Fabio was far too close to Billy at Malmedy and rear-ended him.

I've waived the normal caution points as this was Fabio's first race with UKGPL.


Server replay time: 0h30m17s

L8 Blanchimont

Hurtubise slipstreamed Roguk into Blanchimont but allowed himself to get too close and rear-ended him.

Jim has watched Roger through Blanchimont on the previous lap without gaining on him, and after catching him on the straights the Ferrari has pulled away at every corner. However, when no pass is attempted the following car needs to maintain enough of a gap to make allowance for the braking zone, and Jim fails to.

I've waived the normal caution points as this is Jim's first race with UKGPL.


Server replay time: 0h31m50s

L8 Blanchimont

Bernie resets after a crash but fails to stop-and-go before the end of the race.


Server replay time: 0h33m45s

L9 Source

Bernie made a late attempt to outbrake Burt into Source and collided with him. Perhaps an element of warp but the collision was inevitable. Burt is allowed his free reset.


Server replay time: 0h33m46s

L9 Masta

Burt your report for this incident had the title 'Entering top corner of track what ever its called lol' and a server time of '300', which left Glyn unable to comment...

Glyn lost control at Masta and had to rejoin, after his rejoin he was very slow and also moved toward the centre of the track. Burt clipped him on Burt's replay, without any effect on Burt.

After drivers have recovered from an incident and before they have racing speed, they should stay away from both the centre of the track and the racing line if possible- though they should first of all drive straight down the track rather than angle across it, so that drivers approaching at speed have more chance to avoid them.

  • Racing incident


Server replay time: 0h39m05s

L10 After Carriere

Burt was passing Bernie when Bernie mysteriously lost control, if this was warp contact it was a huge warp.

Perhaps the new collision box on the Cooper might merit further obsevation?

  • Racing incident

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Author Topic: UKGPL Season 17 (2009) Novices Trophy - Spa (1967) - Mar 3  (Read 8170 times)
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Jack O'Ferrall
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« on: February 24, 2009, 11:26:30 PM +0000 »

UKGPL Season 17 - Novices Trophy - Race 1 - 65 mod - Spa-Francorchamps

Welcome to new drivers and welcome back to drivers returning for the second season of the Novices Trophy.  Last years champion Sam has moved onward and upward, so the crown is empty.  The Novices uses the updated 65 mod at int level- resets have to be followed by a stop-and-go in the pits, unless caused by another driver.  Chassis allocations are below- the same chassis will be used for all races this season, unless there is an adjustment agreed by the moderator.  Good luck!

Use caution at the start, as the field can bunch more than expected before L'Eau Rouge and the middle and back of the grid need to take extra care not to run into cars ahead of them.

Please use the updated 65 mod for this race  

The 65 mod update has surprised us as it was a low-key announcement, and it isn't available on the 'Legends of 65' home site, where the 65 mod is hosted.  However, the effort put into it certainly merits a season's testing, without which feedback and any further development would be made difficult.

The updated layout features are very welcome, with the ability to record best lap times at addon tracks and to have 65 specific tracks. The new collision boxes are also a great improvement.  Though the new slipstream code will need extensive testing, the preliminary race seemed to show that it would be a definite improvement in racing terms, without the controversy over its extent, as with the 66 mod.

It seems a pity that the opportunity wasn't taken for more extensive changes to the 65 mod, especially as this means that we'll be racing cars that have compensation for the absence of slipstream built into the top speed, yet with slipstream present.  Though it might be a consideration that an update with corrected and slower speeds would then not be useful for rank, as the cars would be slower, rank should always take second place to realism, and the ranks could continue with the original mod.  However, an extensive reworking of the 65 mod might have taken resources that aren't available to the community.  While I'm disappointed because I'm not keen on the concept of patches that make the carsets faster without regard to realism, at least it's still possible that we could still have a 65 mod v3 based on the 66 physics and made incompatible by the addition of extra cars to prevent the unrealistic faster 2.02 mod being used by overcompetitive racers.

Thanks to all involved with producing the update.  If the new slipsteam code works as well as it seems it might, perhaps it could help persuade the authors of the 66 mod to rework their code as well!

Please be in IGOR UKGPL chatroom by 8:55 p.m.
(You will need to set up a channel called #ukgpl if you haven't already done so)
IGOR and Race passwords: see above

Server ukgpl5
IP address  

Race date = 03-03-2009
Time = 21:00
Track = Spa-Francorchamps
Variant = 65F1
Damage Model = INT
Qually time = 30 minutes.
Race length = long (10 laps) note- the updated 65 mod uses 10 laps for a long race

Driver lists can be found on the championship standings page

CHASSIS ALLOCATION

Ferrari Norbert Roguk Fabio JamesRye
Lotus Al Vos Mike Scott
BRM Billy Hezemans Hurtubise
BT11 Graham Maestro Clutch Nhance
Honda Bookie
Cooper Asbjeurn* Ian* Steve B* Steve B2* Geoff*
BT7 Aulden Burt* Bernie*

*drivers also assigned an Amateurs chassis

65 Mod

These were the 65 drivers
BT7 Bonnier, Baghetti, Hulme (Bonnier drove for Walker)
BT11 Brabham Gurney Gardner Anderson Siffert (Siffert drove for Walker, Gardner and Anderson were privateers)
Lotus Clark Spence Rodriguez Mitter Russo Solana (and Maggs Hailwood Attwood Amon and Ireland for Parnell)
Ferrari Surtees Bandini Rodriguez Vaccarella Bondurant Scarfiotti
Honda Ginther Bucknum
Cooper McLaren Rindt
BRM Hill Stewart

The 1965 season was the last to use the controversial 1500cc formula which had begun after 1960, to the initial advantage of Ferrari.  The 1965 cars are smaller than the 1967 cars and have less torque and hence more grip.  It was claimed that they 'cornered on rails', however this allowed the Grand Prix series to retain the use of circuits which were otherwise to prove extremely dangerous.

The 1965 cars are ideal for those new to GPL as they allow the tracks to be learnt in light reliable cars, however these are also full Formula One cars, and quite fast....  Jim Clark won the 1965 Belgian Grand Prix in a Lotus.  Graham Hill took pole in his BRM P261 with a time of 3'45.4 .  The 1965 distance was 32 laps.

David Wright's 'Legends' site http://fp.gplegends.plus.com/ has the download of the 2.0.1 version (under 'details') as well as being an exceptional guide to both 1965 and 1967, for those interested in Formula One history.  The 2.02 update is available here: http://www.jamesonline.net/ukgpl/1965mod_PATCH_v2.0.2_Setup.zip
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john roberts
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« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2009, 12:43:32 AM +0000 »

well i think i've signed up for this ...  if so what car will i take ?

scrub that .... then again ... can i drive in the novices Smiley

guess not

john
« Last Edit: February 25, 2009, 12:46:11 AM +0000 by john roberts » Logged
Asbjeurn Tverberg
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« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2009, 08:18:52 AM +0000 »

Cooper Asbjeurn* Ian* Steve B* Steve B2* Geoff*
BT7 Aulden Burt* Bernie*

*drivers also assigned an Amateurs chassis
What does this mean? I haven't signed up for the Amateurs trophy, so is this in case I should be moved up?
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Jack O'Ferrall
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« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2009, 06:55:59 PM +0000 »

Yeah, there's slightly more drivers than a full grid in both divisions, obviously this won't translate into full grids but we decided that it might be good to build some flexibility into the allocations.  Also, Geoff and Steve had indicated that they might be as happy with a slower car on the slower grid, and Burt was completely unable to decide, so a category of drivers of similar pace seemed the right move.  Perhaps they could form the nucleus of Geoff's desired D2, if we continue to add numbers!

However, you wouldn't be required to move up from a Cooper anyway, it would only be if you decided you wanted to test the pros.  Same with the other drivers- the Novices is harder to balance than the Amateurs, but if there is a runaway leader they could drop to the Cooper or BT7, rather than have to move up into the Amateurs.
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Geoff65
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« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2009, 07:42:55 PM +0000 »

Yeah, there's slightly more drivers than a full grid in both divisions, obviously this won't translate into full grids but we decided that it might be good to build some flexibility into the allocations.  Also, Geoff and Steve had indicated that they might be as happy with a slower car on the slower grid, and Burt was completely unable to decide, so a category of drivers of similar pace seemed the right move.  Perhaps they could form the nucleus of Geoff's desired D2, if we continue to add numbers!

However, you wouldn't be required to move up from a Cooper anyway, it would only be if you decided you wanted to test the pros.  Same with the other drivers- the Novices is harder to balance than the Amateurs, but if there is a runaway leader they could drop to the Cooper or BT7, rather than have to move up into the Amateurs.

Good plan gentlemen.....Well done. I presume the (*) drivers points are to be transortable between both classes? And do we need to sign up to both classes as well?.....or will that just be Mod magic??.... Grin
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Asbjeurn Tverberg
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« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2009, 09:21:42 AM +0000 »

I won't be there, I discovered. I'm going to a conference tomorrow and the day after, and will be away from home tomorrow night. That means people will get a head start on me, which will make my road to victory a bit longer.  Wink
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vosblod
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« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2009, 10:19:38 AM +0000 »

Qualified in 10th which is good for me. Five  Shocked 'incidents' in the first 3 laps put paid to my chances. One of these was my fault when I rear-ended Billy, wasn't expecting the early brake but no excuse. Apologies to Billy, NHance and anyone else who got caught up in it - took a Stop N Go for this.
Once the dramas were over had a steady (and lonely) race concentrating on getting a finish...
Congrats to Clutch and other podium guys. Onto Albi...
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happyal
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« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2009, 01:22:01 PM +0000 »

Qualifying went much better than expected for me, I was on pole for a while, but ended the session 3rd, which was much higher than I expected, set a new PB in qualifying so couldn’t ask for much better. Start was great, I got a flying start and led the field for about half a lap, I didn’t fight clutch at all when he went past, my plan was to sit behind him and try to force a mistake and pass. This worked well for about a lap and a bit until I made a silly mistake (how many times until I learn) which meant that clutch got away and Peter M got past me.

I wasn’t too worried at this point, I just wanted to get on with the race, but unfortunately I made another silly mistake which cost me loads of time and meant I was 5th. I started to chase down Jim Hurtubise in his BRM who was just in front of me. I set my fastest time during these laps, and it turned out to be the races fastest lap, I really don’t know where that time came from, it was much faster than my other laps. I did get past Jim, but something happened (don’t now what happened) and I got into a violent spin, I was having fun too Sad. I had a cushion at this point from the drivers behind and settled into reeling off the laps, had a few more spills, but nothing major.

Overall I was happy with my race, I had speed in the car which really surprised me, but the same old story of not being consistent enough. I need to keep a cooler head.
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maestro57
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« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2009, 02:10:04 PM +0000 »

Very enjoyable race.

Finishing 2nd helps Grin
will probably not get repeated during the season Sad

Congrats to Clutch. Pipped me for pole on his last qualy lap

Chased him most of race, but he was overall very consistent.

He must have had the odd wobble as I caught him up twice, but made my own mistakes both times that dropped me back before I could even consider trying to get past

Wow good grid or what. Where has everyone come from?

Onto Albi. Never even loaded this circuit let only driven it. Anyone got a good setup for the BT11?

Cheers

Peter
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« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2009, 03:33:41 PM +0000 »

In the name of scientific experiment I took the Coop but soon found how essential a good tow was to overcome the  lack of horses

Made a superb start (though I thought I may have instigated  the T1 shunt as I had sqweezed into the gap in front of me in order to get on close terms with the leaders, but my replay shows that no contact was made between me and N Hance who was outside of me but at the time , but there was maybe some warp so I will appologise now in advance if the mods think otherwise )

I was up with front the pack and going well but it went wrong at burnenville ? when I collected a wayward BRM of Hurtubise , this dropped me back and allowed Locarno in the fezz and Hezemans to get past. Lap 2 saw me draughting Locarno into La Source but in spite of me braking early I caught his rear end with my front and we half both spun but were able to continue . Another incedent at the same place involved more cars as I tried to move to the inside to clear a late braking Lotus , I caught the kerb and engaged launch control  the race developed into a fair old scrap at times but the coopers handling combined with my driving couldnt make up for the speed of the faster chassis .
The last few laps were a disaster , I had more spins and incedents trying to find the limits , then fun with Burt on the last lap , so more appologies to follow.

All in all a good fun race even if it was a personal disaster ( I think Spa hates me ) and glad to try anything that stops the mods from becoming bored   Smiley
 

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« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2009, 07:00:59 PM +0000 »

I've imported the results- for our new drivers, click on the link to file an incident report.  As this is a beginner's race I will look at the entire race, but I'm not certain to spot something unless you've highlighted it for me.

Apologies for the tight grid, this was due to the new 65 track.ini catching the mods unawares, it shouldn't happen again.  Spa might not have been the ideal track for your first try at the new slipstream, but I hope you all enjoyed it!  Albi is much more conventional, for drivers that haven't raced there yet.
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Glyn Lloyd
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« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2009, 07:31:52 PM +0000 »

What a day !!!!!  First question is ....what happened to  " Take it easy on L1  into Eau Rouge "  HuhHuhHuh!!!! Angry Shocked..........a field of 17 and 85% of them wiped out BEFORE the first bend !!!!! Shocked
I lost count of how many posted that warning in pre-race chat just before we hit the grid...and look what happened.......I guess this is why we are all in the Novice class eh ?......was more like the 'NONCES' class   Tongue
Began in P11...by the time we all sorted ourselves out after the Eau Rouge shenanigans I was away in P17  Sad..then into Malmedy and lo and behold...the same crowd are at it again as I come into the left hander ....8 cars involved this time !!!!   WTF !!!  is what I heard myself saying...again, I get away after the others and chase Bookie down to Masta....not sure if he lifted or not but his tail-end  and my nose cone were getting awfully chummy,  I had to shift my line to avoid a hit on him...that slid me wide into the r/h  armco and around in circles.....Bookie managed to perform a similar feat a few yards ahead of mine......from there on it was a matter of chasing cars down.....wringing the neck of the BT7 for all I was worth.....managed to close on some and the only slipstream I got to enjoy was chasing a Ferrari for a lap......until he came to grief at Stavelot....had a few close calls along the way...including one where the guy in front of me going into Blanchimont  decided to perform a 'wall of death' stunt on the berms  letting me past...almost collected a recovering car as I went past the wall of death hero   Tongue........a big spin out of Masta  saw two cars fly by but I caught them at La Source when they stopped to perform a Tango for the spectators...I had to hop the inside kerb to get around them  and held on to my spot  ( P10)  during that final lap.

Not the sort of debut I was looking for in my first UKGPL race...but that`s how it goes eh ?......I WAS kinda hoping that it would be different to the 'other' league I run in  in as much as the driving skills would be better.....maybe for the next race eh guys Huh Kiss laugh

All in all I managed to enjoy the bulk of the 'race'    shoulda got higher but was not to be this time.....looking forward to a better result at Albi in two weeks time.....meanwhile I think I have to do some work on the BT7 gearbox    Roll Eyes

Thanks all for the excitement  laugh
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maestro57
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« Reply #12 on: March 04, 2009, 09:17:21 PM +0000 »

is there a replay off the server that can be downloaded  from somewhere?
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Jack O'Ferrall
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« Reply #13 on: March 04, 2009, 09:32:07 PM +0000 »

Yeah- there's a 'Replays' link on the UKGPL front page.  The '..' link takes you to the Index, it should be obvious from there.

A tight grid is too bunched for L'Eau Rouge at Spa, without 'proper' peripheral vision there's little chance of using the 'proper' grid.  Also this was the first race of the season- with the new patch which has been out for a week or so.  I expect all of you to get better by mid-season though!
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vosblod
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« Reply #14 on: March 04, 2009, 09:53:30 PM +0000 »

The Amateurs got the wrong starting grid too.
Hands up for this  Embarrassed  As Jack'O mentioned we were caught out by the new 65 patch which adds track65.ini's for the historic 65 circuits.
Loose grids will be sorted for the next race...
« Last Edit: March 05, 2009, 12:30:55 AM +0000 by vosblod » Logged
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