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  • S17Da Albi: March 17, 2009
March 17, 2009, 09:37:19 PM +0000 - Albi (1959-80) - UKGPL Season 17 (2009) Amateurs Trophy
Driver
 Team
Nat. Make Model Class Qualifying Race
Tyres Pos Time/Gap Pos Time/Gap Laps Stops Best Retirement
reason
Ballast
Hristo Itchov
 HikiWazaRacing
Brabham BT7 (Climax) F1 1965 5 +0.324
---
1 (+2) 50:43.792
---
40 1:15.286
---
Dunlop  
FullMetalGasket
 HikiWazaRacing
Honda RA272 F1 1965 1 1:14.827
---
2 +5.055
---
40 1:15.223
---
Goodyear  
EvilClive
 HikiWazaRacing
Honda RA272 F1 1965 6 +0.343
---
3 +5.682
---
40 1:15.376
---
Goodyear  
Clive Loynes
 Soggy Bottom Racers Club
Brabham BT11 (Climax) F1 1965 3 +0.216
---
4 +14.873
---
40 1:15.257
---
Goodyear  
Dave Randall
 
Lotus 33 (Climax 1965) F1 1965 8 +0.451
---
5 +19.730
---
40 1:15.603
---
Dunlop  
Samb
 Reed Racing
BRM P261 (1965) F1 1965 9 +0.631
---
6 +24.702
---
40 1:15.262
---
Dunlop  
Doni Yourth
 
Cooper T77 (Climax) F1 1965 13 +1.492
---
7 +1:09.381
---
40 1:16.464
---
Dunlop  
Geoff65
 Clark-Hill Racing
Lotus 33 (Climax 1965) F1 1965 18 +3.113
---
8 (+1) +1L
---
39 1:16.884
---
Dunlop  
Phil Thornton
 Antipasti Racing
Ferrari 512 F1 1965 17 +3.100
---
9 +5.913
---
39 1:16.502
---
Dunlop  
Will Tway
 Antipasti Racing
Ferrari 512 F1 1965 11 +0.825
---
10 +14L
---
26 1:15.977
---
Dunlop  
Turkey Machine
 Clark-Hill Racing
Brabham BT11 (Climax) F1 1965 2 +0.120
---
11 +21L
---
19 1:15.987
---
Goodyear  
Podkrecony_Ziutek
 Clark-Hill Racing
Lotus 33 (Climax 1965) F1 1965 10 +0.771
---
12 +53.181
---
19 1:16.485
---
Dunlop  
b_1_rd
 Soggy Bottom Racers Club
Lotus 33 (Climax 1965) F1 1965 15 +2.937
---
13 +32L
---
8 1:17.051
---
Dunlop  
john roberts
 
Brabham BT11 (Climax) F1 1965 4 +0.233
---
14 +34L
---
6 1:16.309
---
Goodyear  
Storm_Cloud
 
Lotus 33 (Climax 1965) F1 1965 15 +16.378
---
6 1:18.412
---
Dunlop  
fpolicardi
 Team7
Brabham BT11 (Climax) F1 1965 12 +1.222
---
16 +16.737
---
6 1:17.524
---
Goodyear  
Jack O'Ferrall
 Reed Racing
BRM P261 (1965) F1 1965 16 +3.050
---
17 +38L
---
2 1:19.756
---
Dunlop  
MikeBeattie
 Drake Racing
Cooper T77 (Climax) F1 1965 14 +1.654
---
18 +39L
---
1 1:23.044
---
Dunlop  
ginsters sponsored
 Kerb Crawlers
BRM P261 (1965) F1 1965 7 +0.345
---
19 DNS ---
---
Dunlop  
6 UKGPL
 
Lotus 33 (Climax 1965) F1 1965 20 ---
---
Dunlop  

Moderator's Report

Server replay time: 0h04m37s

Geoff and Steve Bucket collide into Parc ending Steve's race.
The overtaking car had NOT achieved a 50% or greater overlap at the point of turn-in. There was no loss of control by either driver. Penalty for overtaking driver.


Server replay time: 0h05m12s

Hristo follows John and Jethro into DD and hits both of them.


Server replay time: 0h43m14s

Tim hits Clive L who has slowed in fighting with Hristo.
The server shows no contact with Clive travelling faster than Tim at the time. Genuine Warp Incident.

  • Racing incident

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Author Topic: UKGPL Season 17 (2009) Amateurs Trophy - Albi - Mar 17  (Read 14738 times)
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Turkey Machine
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« Reply #45 on: March 26, 2009, 08:48:32 PM +0000 »

I see the PP in the standings against yourself, nothing against Tim though, so I'd guess nothing's been finalised as the moderator's report has yet to be published.

And of course I'll defend John - he's my team leader!!!! Wink
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Everyone knows that million-to-one chances happen 9 times out of 10. Why the hell do I keep crashing then?!
FullMetalGasket
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« Reply #46 on: March 27, 2009, 08:38:50 AM +0000 »

As much as I don't like to look a potential gift horse in the mouth...
Am I supposed to be classed as the winner of this race now and recieve the full 50 points, or is the leaderboard playing silly buggers?
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Hristo Itchov
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« Reply #47 on: March 27, 2009, 10:03:15 AM +0000 »

Lol, I see penalty rulings for this division have abandoned the usual UKGPL rule of describing the why's of a reasoning behind a decision. Despite having presented you with a thorough description of my point of view you say I was having a "ridiculously ambitious overtaking" attempt when it wasn't even an overtaking attempt. I'm disappointed to say the least, it almost comes as an insult.

Whoever modded this I suggest you look at how other people mod the other divs and take notice as to learn for future events. As it is atm it seems pointless giving our own view of the incident if you had already made up your mind.
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Clive Loynes
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« Reply #48 on: March 27, 2009, 10:22:22 AM +0000 »

Hristo, I think that you need to send an email to Phil to lodge an appeal.

Better than using the open forum and requests for them to "look again" that are expressed here do not constitute an appeal.
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SBRC  UKPnG Season 6, 7 & 8 Champions (Missed Season 9 by a gnat's nadger!)
Hristo Itchov
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« Reply #49 on: March 27, 2009, 11:30:31 AM +0000 »

Hristo, I think that you need to send an email to Phil to lodge an appeal.

Better than using the open forum and requests for them to "look again" that are expressed here do not constitute an appeal.

Sure... I was just expressing my surprise and disappointment. 2 places penalty for avoiding an early braker and not taking anyone out just left me speechless for a bit. Thanks.
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miner2049er
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« Reply #50 on: March 27, 2009, 01:16:45 PM +0000 »

Whoever modded this I suggest you look at how other people mod the other divs and take notice as to learn for future events. As it is atm it seems pointless giving our own view of the incident if you had already made up your mind.

I modded it and yes I am new to it this season but all decisions are based on discussion with other moderators who have overlooked the same race incidents.

As Clive suggests, if you wish to appeal, do it through the proper channels.
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Turkey Machine
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« Reply #51 on: March 27, 2009, 04:58:23 PM +0000 »

Lol, I see penalty rulings for this division have abandoned the usual UKGPL rule of describing the why's of a reasoning behind a decision. Despite having presented you with a thorough description of my point of view you say I was having a "ridiculously ambitious overtaking" attempt when it wasn't even an overtaking attempt. I'm disappointed to say the least, it almost comes as an insult.

Whoever modded this I suggest you look at how other people mod the other divs and take notice as to learn for future events. As it is atm it seems pointless giving our own view of the incident if you had already made up your mind.
Mike has shown to be a very capable mod in his short time doing so, so far, and granted while he's not as verbose as others in his reports, they at least get the gist of things across. So kudos Mike, keep at it. Smiley

The phrase "Ridiculously Ambitious Overtake" should ring bells Hristo, since you took John out of the fight for the victory and rendered his car almost undrivable. At least that's what I could tell.
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Phil Thornton
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« Reply #52 on: March 27, 2009, 06:52:32 PM +0000 »

The formal appeals process is to PM the Chief Moderator as described in the rules under driving standards.

The moderators usually confer and reach a consensus before a report is published.  So an appeal is only likely to be successful if either the moderators did not get a chance to confer (and if they had done a different ruling would have been made) or new information has come to light that was not available at the time the report was published.

In an effort to try to improve the consensus and hence make appeals less likely.  I published a set of penalty guidelines in an attempt to describe a set of scenarios for each type of incidents and the severity of penalties that could be awarded.  In order to describe the scenarios I had to give them descriptive names that relate to the varying  degrees of severity.  Hence the terms "Contested Overtake", "Marginal Ambitious Overtake" and "Blatant Bad Rejoin" etc.  I could have used any number of adjectives to describe the "Ridiculously Ambitious Overtake" scenario such as "Over Ambitious", "Ill Judged", "Inappropriate", "Crazy" or whatever.  The important thing is does the description (The overtaking driver had not achieved any degree of overlap at turn-in. The overtaking driver WOULD have made the corner. Penalty for overtaking driver.)  match the incident?  Moreover do the set of scenarios cover most eventualities and are the associated penalties appropriate?  These scenarios are reviewed by the moderators and updated as appropriate.  There has not been a necessity to change the guidelines very often so they do appear to be fairly robust.

On the subject of the style of mod reports, this is very much down to the moderator (and how much time they have).  I generally like to write in the third person (to make it less personal) and start with a description of the incident (so everyone agrees what actually happened).  This is followed by a ruling describing the rationale and interpretation of the rules where necessary.  This does take some time an practice to get right.  Kruger Enge used to produce some outstanding reports but I know it took him a long time and he moderated quite a lot of races before he perfected his style.  Just look at this report (new moderators don't bother I don't want to scare you off!!!) an object lesson in moderating!

Finally the moderating team, Jack, Syd, Clive, Mike and Tim.  I am very grateful to the moderators who give up their own time to organize the races, start the servers, review the incidents and produce race reports.  Not only that, they provide servers and web space for no remuneration whatsoever.   I couldn't wish for a better bunch of guys to work with.  This was Mike's second report and I think he did very well in sorting out some contentious incidents.  Thanks Mike, it will get easier, honest  Wink

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john roberts
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« Reply #53 on: March 27, 2009, 07:08:21 PM +0000 »

Sure... I was just expressing my surprise and disappointment. 2 places penalty for avoiding an early braker and not taking anyone out just left me speechless for a bit. Thanks.

you took me out .. or have you forgotten that ?

john
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FullMetalGasket
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« Reply #54 on: March 27, 2009, 09:01:15 PM +0000 »

Just look at this report (new moderators don't bother I don't want to scare you off!!!) an object lesson in moderating!

Dear god that must have taken some time!  Shocked
Although the link above is making me reconsider, I would be happy to help out as a spare incident moderator if required. I wouldn't trust myself to launch servers ect but would be perfectly happy to give my own little bit back  thumbup1
Just aslong as I didn't have to moderate myself that is!  laugh
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