UKGPL Season 17 (2009) Novices Trophy - Monza (GP 1955-71) - Jul 7

[bernie]

Cheers guys for the comments , been away for a short break , will look at what S18 has to offer and go from there .

[NickyIckx]

Cheers guys for the comments , been away for a short break , will look at what S18 has to offer and go from there

  nice to hear ya staying here for S18 Bernie !!!!!!!

( btw. I forgott to mentioned that of course I will share my Cooper setups with everybody wants to .Those are nothing special , mostly based on PJ setups ).

[JamesRye]

Server replay time: 0h37m07s

James Rye turns in on Meastro rear-ending him.
James can clearly see Peter is there so should have taken avoiding action.

•JamesRye (james rye) — penalty — Blatant Rear End Shunt — 2 places lost (plus 2 for penalty points)

I think that I prefer Maestros version of events 

L22 Disaster coming into parabolica, Overtake James with the slipstream, up the inside but drift to middle of circuit and James has nowhere to go and I get a gentle tap. Shame the physics made it seem like he hit me at over 100mph. and off into gravel Again


Ryeman

[bernie]

You should know by now Jack'O comes from a long line of hanging judges   

Dont think I ever saw so many PP's awarded for a season , as for me is 16 a record ? Its certainly a PB and flying the flag for the Soggies in the naughty boy dept.

Grats again to Clutch now ehat its all official like 

[Phil Thornton]

Server replay time: 0h37m07s

James Rye turns in on Meastro rear-ending him.
James can clearly see Peter is there so should have taken avoiding action.

•JamesRye (james rye) — penalty — Blatant Rear End Shunt — 2 places lost (plus 2 for penalty points)

I think that I prefer Maestros version of events 

L22 Disaster coming into parabolica, Overtake James with the slipstream, up the inside but drift to middle of circuit and James has nowhere to go and I get a gentle tap. Shame the physics made it seem like he hit me at over 100mph. and off into gravel Again


Ryeman

I think Peter is being a gentleman but that doesn't change what happened.  There was obviously no malitious intent but there are a couple of lessons to learn here (which is one of the main reasons for moderating races). 

Peter was clearly visible in your mirrors round Ascari and he dissapeared from view which means he must have been along side.  Since we can't look over our shoulders in GPL we have to develop a "sixth sense" that enables us to know where other cars are without seeing them.  The opportunity to defend the inside line had now gone, moving over at this stage would be blocking or risking side-by-side contact.

As the overtaking car, Peter can see you and so he knows exactly where you are.  He makes a clean pass and wins the corner.  One slight criticism is that it was a bit of a block pass but if we penalized that nobody would ever get past anyone (not in World Superbikes anyway).

Having lost sight of Peter you have to assume he is along side.  If under braking he reappears in your mirrors, you can assume you have outbraked him and you are then entitled to take your normal line.  However in this case he has clearly won the corner and you have to be prepared to yeild.  As the following car you are now responsible for ensuring there is no rear end contact.  You should have been prepared to take a wide line to avoid contact.

I appreciate a penalty may seem harsh but it is the only mechanism we have to highlight incidents and to try to learn from them so we can make on-line racing more fun for everyone.

Peter's interpretation of the event is very sporting but we wouldn't want to foster a culture where it was OK to knock people off the track provided we said sorry afterwards.  Having said that we do class lots of incidents as "racing incidents" or "warp incidents" so we don't try to apportion blame in every case.  However it is important to award penalties when there is a point to debate. 

Peter is right about the physics (or warp as it may be in this case) though.  But even on this point it is the responsibility of the following driver to maintain a sufficient gap to avoid the risk of warp contact.

[Jack O'Ferrall]

Not my handiwork this time Bernie old chum, I have had a PC fail on me, so I asked for help from our newest moderators, as trained by Phil to join the 'long line'.  I can't comment, as I haven't been able to watch the replay yet and I would have to rely on reports alone.

While there have been many penalty points awarded this season, Novices has been the only division where the entire race has been fully moderated, the others have been report-only.  Also Novices has been full grids with resets allowed, while the other divisions have tended to thin out quickly, so Novices has suffered more from the closer racing due to slipstreaming.

Though your own penalties may be put down to trying too hard in an uncompetitive chassis- we'll sort you out with a a faster car for next season -if we move to report-only for the Novices it could mean that drivers who need advice won't get it.  Some of the rejoins this season were not appropriate for league racing, at any level.  Understandably drivers are more reluctant to point out the failings of their comrades than moderators.

Any comments on the report-only issue are welcome, if there is a new influx and particularly if we move to three divisions the Novices will remain fully moderated, otherwise we might allow it to be report-only. 

[vosblod]

You should know by now Jack'O comes from a long line of hanging judges   

I'm afraid I'm the hanging judge Bernie.
As Jack O' says the novices gets the nits picked out of it to assist new drivers but it does mean 'apology and handshake' incidents pick up penalties.
Personally I favor reported incidents only but I understand why the Nov's is a special case...

[maestro57]

Any comments on the report-only issue are welcome, if there is a new influx and particularly if we move to three divisions the Novices will remain fully moderated, otherwise we might allow it to be report-only. 

I would say the Novice division should remain fully moderated with penalties
You learn quickest when you have been slapped. Being told you were a naughty boy just doesn't have the same effect.
As Novices we need this proper guidance from the seniors so we race better and cleaner

Thanks again to the moderators for the excellent job you do.

[JamesRye]

I would also say that the Novice devision should remain fully moderated with penalties. Its hard to be objective when you are involved in an incident (I came up with a barmy reason for why I had contact with Nicky at Silverstone).

Personally, I'd put this one down to a racing incident (but then I would) however, I respect the judges descision and thanks to Phil Thornton for a well reasoned judgement.

Certainly moderating is surely a difficult task, just look at some of the crazy Penalties issued in the world of real F1. The most unjust of penalties was surely disqualifying Hamilton from the win at Spa or possibly banning Renault from Valencia.

Ryeman

[bernie]

I would like to add that I do fully appreciate the job the mods do though I cant help thinking a lot of the penalties that have been awarded have seemed (to my eyes)  to be a bit harsh and uneccasary , after all we want to be able to race , thats why we are here , mistakes will and are made in the learning process 

In a lot of cases I think a verbal warning would have been better applied rather than being penalised for "trying to hard "

In the real world of 60's racing there was mutual respect among drivers due to the potentialy fatal consequences of making contact , those thoughts are always in my head , I have personally witnessed tradgedy on the race track on far too many occasions and for myself I try to drive accordingly , though it isn't always clear because when close racing we are never sure how the other guy is going to react , for that reason I like to follow a slower car for a while to kind of sum up the situation and seek out a passing oppertunity , unfortunatetly this season I seem to have allowed myself to become annoyed with myself and at times become frustrated with my performance which has led to me trying to do some wonderful things with the Cooper which turned out to be beyond the understanding of the design perammeters of both GPL and the Cooper Car Company .