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  • U10UE Road America: September 20, 2009
September 20, 2009, 08:38:26 PM +0100 - Road America (Full) - UKGTR Season 10 Upper Endurance
Driver
 Team
Nat. Make Model Class Qualifying Race
Tyres Pos Time/Gap Pos Time/Gap Laps Stops Best Retirement
reason
Ballast
JonM_uk
 Team Shark
Lister Storm (#860001) GT1 1 1:57.815
123.546mph
1 1:21:38.000
115.898mph
39 1:59.330
121.977mph
Michelin  
Busi
 Racin24-7
Lamborghini Murcielago R-GT (#960037) GT1 4 +1.496
121.997mph
2 +28.519
115.227mph
39 1:59.768
121.531mph
Michelin  
Joss
 Team Shark
Dodge Viper GTS-R (#850001) GT1 3 +0.840
122.671mph
3 +29.568
115.202mph
39 2:00.480
120.813mph
Pirelli  
H@L9000
 Team Pseudo Racing
Dodge Viper GTS-R (#420052) GT1 8 +2.360
121.120mph
4 +55.020
114.610mph
39 2:01.317
119.980mph
Pirelli  
Gazza49er
 Team Pseudo Racing
Ferrari 550 Maranello (#490052) GT1 5 +1.917
121.568mph
5 +1:08.220
114.306mph
39 2:01.032
120.262mph
Michelin  
Truetom
 Legends Racing
Marcos LM600 (#40000) GT1 9 +2.957
120.521mph
6 +1:42.073
113.532mph
39 2:01.543
119.756mph
Michelin  
Stewprovo
 Kerb Crawlers
Aston Martin DBR9 (#850013) GT1 6 +2.070
121.413mph
7 +1:57.927
113.173mph
39 2:01.853
119.452mph
Michelin  
Jimmie
 
Ferrari 575 GTC (#110554) GT1 10 +3.280
120.199mph
8 +1L
112.858mph
38 2:01.256
120.040mph
Michelin  
Dave 'Gizmo' Gymer
 Team Shark
Chevrolet Corvette C6-R (#20000) GT1 14 +4.551
118.951mph
9 +2.042
112.811mph
38 2:02.420
118.899mph
Michelin  
spanner
 Prodigy Racing
Aston Martin DBR9 (#950057) GT1 13 +3.690
119.794mph
10 +3.242
112.784mph
38 2:01.755
119.548mph
Michelin  
nsfast
 
Ford GT (#30000) GT1 11 +3.465
120.016mph
11 +20.170
112.396mph
38 2:02.509
118.812mph
Michelin  
Jure
 Racin24-7
Lamborghini Murcielago R-GT (#960037) GT1 15 +5.713
117.832mph
12 +1:33.838
110.738mph
38 2:03.452
117.905mph
Michelin  
phspok
 Team Pseudo Racing
Lister Storm (#660052) GT1 16 +9.674
114.171mph
13 +2L
109.147mph
37 2:04.107
117.282mph
Michelin  
lazlow
 Team Oldie Racing
BMW Z4M (#990014) GTC 17 +10.682
113.275mph
14 +3L
106.860mph
36 2:09.094
112.752mph
Pirelli  
Simon Gymer
 Team Shark
Morgan Aero 8 (#900001) GTC 19 +13.210
111.090mph
15 +21.973
106.383mph
36 2:09.808
112.131mph
Michelin  
Prof
 Team Shark
BMW Z4M (#170000) GTC 20 +13.273
111.037mph
16 +1:21.743
105.108mph
36 2:12.335
109.990mph
Pirelli  
API
 Team Oldie Racing
Mosler MT900R (#660014) GTC 18 +12.656
111.562mph
17 +2:07.278
104.157mph
36 2:12.129
110.162mph
Dunlop  
Blunder
 Team Oldie Racing
Morgan Aero 8 (#880014) GTC 18 +4L
103.895mph
35 2:12.130
110.161mph
Michelin  
goldtop
 Kerb Crawlers
BMW Z4M (#170000) GTC 21 +14.671
109.865mph
19 +13.917
103.601mph
35 2:13.062
109.389mph
Pirelli  
ginsters sponsored
 Kerb Crawlers
Maserati MC12 (#870013) GT1 2 +0.762
122.752mph
20 +7L 32 2:00.413
120.880mph
unknown
Pirelli  
Mark J
 Legends Racing
Maserati MC12 (#950008) GT1 12 +3.580
119.902mph
21 +15L 24 2:01.686
119.616mph
unknown
Pirelli  
Legzy
 Team Oldie Racing
Ferrari 360 Modena (#140014) GTC 22 +15.219
109.412mph
22 +23L 16 2:12.147
110.147mph
unknown
Pirelli  
mr_oily
 Prodigy Racing
Ferrari 550 Maranello (#4001) GT1 7 +2.229
121.252mph
23 +25L 14 2:01.367
119.930mph
unknown
Michelin  
picnic
 Team Shark
TVR Tuscan T400R (#940001) GTC 23 +16.638
108.258mph
24 +32L 7 2:13.358
109.146mph
engine
Dunlop  

Moderator's Report

An incident occurred in qualifying. The drivers involved were not able to supply a replay so unfortunately this incident can not be moderated. If you would like an incident to be officially looked into that occurred during a qualifying session then it is up to the drivers to supply a replay as no replays can be saved on the server from the qualifying sessions. This can be awkward but it is the only way to do it I am afraid. I would like to take this opportunity to remind drivers of the rules for qualifying: https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=3349.msg65155#msg65155

Also please remember that with 2 classes of car, extra caution is required during qualifying. A faster class of car must not muscle its way passed a slower class car. The faster class needs to be more mindful of track space and has to consider that if you catch up with a slower class of car then you have made the mistake of not allowing enough track space. You must then wait for an indication to pass from the slower car. If you can definitely 'pass without slowing the other car' then you may do so.


Server replay time: 1000s

TT, Mr_Oily and Stewprovo are having a good battle when TT goes into the back of Mr_Oily under braking. TT does not appear to have braked late and the contact, although not massive, sent Mr_Oily flying into the air in quite a spectacular style. The front of his car seems to dig into the ground and it flips very high into the air. This seems to be due to something with the track surface or possibly a slight bug with the multi player collision code. The contact should not have given such a large incident. TT could have been using more caution when following another car closely, but the victim requested that no penalty is given.

  • Truetomcaution — Take more care when following another car closely.
    For advice only - unreported by victim, so penalty disregarded

SimRacing.org.uk Lap Records
GTR2
GTC
2:08.497
113.275mph
lazlow
Qualifying
BMW Z4MSeptember 20, 2009, 08:38:26 PM +0100
U10UE
GTR2
GTC
2:09.094
112.752mph
lazlow
Race
BMW Z4MSeptember 20, 2009, 08:38:26 PM +0100
U10UE
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Author Topic: UKGTR Season 10 Upper Endurance - Road America (Full) - Sep 20  (Read 16796 times)
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Stewprovo
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« Reply #15 on: September 17, 2009, 08:57:36 AM +0100 »

LOL. Same here, although I'm in a Lambo.  Grin

try soft-medium or medium-hard tyre combo.

softer front ARB.

very low diff (5-10%).


Cheers mate, will try tonight.
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Truetom
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« Reply #16 on: September 17, 2009, 10:15:46 AM +0100 »

Harder rear springs. You can do that easily - if you're not driving the Marcos. Wink
I always set harder rear springs than front in the F430 and it worked great at entrance and exit. Smiley Dunno how's this for Aston.
Also higher rear ride-hight might help.
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Busi
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« Reply #17 on: September 17, 2009, 01:23:50 PM +0100 »

@ Lambo fahrers, what wing settings r u guys using?

I think I ran with 2-6 last time around here. Although if you wanted to have a healthy top speed to compete with the rest in the straights you would need 1-1 Cheesy


Before the last carpack adjustements I though the MC12 was the best car, now with those slight changes where it only has been improved... I think it's gonna dominate in the good hands, i.e. driven by sbg for example Wink
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Jimmie
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« Reply #18 on: September 17, 2009, 03:16:54 PM +0100 »

Aston feels ok round here, nice and stable, but still only in mid 2:03's. Need lots more praccy.

OK, now I've done some online laps, things are not so rosey. I now have chronic understeer at every corner, and can only do mid 2:05's with the cleanest of laps. I know it's a set-up issue, but I don't know how to dial it out, can anyone help? helpsmilie stupid

If you have understeer while accelerating out of the corner reduce power from diff.
If you have understeer in general in a fast corner (120km/u+) (part or full throttle) reduce rear wing.
If you have understeer in a slow corner increase rear ARB.
Or you encounter global understeer, soften front or harden rear springs.

If it ain't any of those situations it's in the dampener (fast/slow bump/rebound etc.) stuff, but I always have to look up those things on what they do Tongue
Handy guide which generally helps your setup: http://www.langamers.it/gtr/Guida_setup_GTR/Guida_GTR2.pdf
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H@L9000
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« Reply #19 on: September 17, 2009, 03:33:07 PM +0100 »

Many setup changes depend on the car and the way that you drive I think.

In the Viper GT1, I am doing OK so far by tweaking a setup for the F550 that I have. High 2.01 ish so far for race pace but not practised on line yet. Under 2 mins is Alien time, count me out of that. Grin

I have a higher than usual front ARB to help turn in. Lower than usual rear wing. Currently using 4. I have a lower than usual power in the diff and higher than usual coast in the diff. There are some high speed coasting moments on this track so a higher than usual coast in the diff seems to help with stability there.

I am having an issue with the gear box though. 6th gear is only just long enough for this track but I still have to rev the nuts off it with 6th gear set as long as it will go. This is killing the engine a bit. 6th gear would not be long enough for Le Mans in the Viper, I am sure. :'(

Am I missing something? Or is that it for 6th gear in the Viper? I have tried Two different Vipers and they seems to have the same issue.
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Jeffrey
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« Reply #20 on: September 17, 2009, 03:41:27 PM +0100 »

I have a higher than usual front ARB to help turn in.
That only makes it understeer more Wink

I am having an issue with the gear box though. 6th gear is only just long enough for this track but I still have to rev the nuts off it with 6th gear set as long as it will go. This is killing the engine a bit. 6th gear would not be long enough for Le Mans in the Viper, I am sure. :'(

Am I missing something? Or is that it for 6th gear in the Viper? I have tried Two different Vipers and they seems to have the same issue.

Same problem which is indeed weird, it's even worst at Monza, surely that can't be right.
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H@L9000
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« Reply #21 on: September 17, 2009, 03:56:52 PM +0100 »

I have a higher than usual front ARB to help turn in.
That only makes it understeer more Wink

I see. Must be a combination of the other settings and a high front ARB. Or maybe the way that I drive. The car seemed more responsive on turn in with a higher front ARB. On this track anyway.

I am having an issue with the gear box though. 6th gear is only just long enough for this track but I still have to rev the nuts off it with 6th gear set as long as it will go. This is killing the engine a bit. 6th gear would not be long enough for Le Mans in the Viper, I am sure. :'(

Am I missing something? Or is that it for 6th gear in the Viper? I have tried Two different Vipers and they seems to have the same issue.

Same problem which is indeed weird, it's even worst at Monza, surely that can't be right.

Nasty! :'( I was really looking forward to trying the Viper out at Le Mans some time as well. Sad
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Jeffrey
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« Reply #22 on: September 17, 2009, 04:12:52 PM +0100 »

I see. Must be a combination of the other settings and a high front ARB. Or maybe the way that I drive. The car seemed more responsive on turn in with a higher front ARB. On this track anyway.

That is correct, stiffer ARB makes it more responsive, but normally it prevents weighttransfer and causes understeer.
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Paul968
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« Reply #23 on: September 17, 2009, 04:21:30 PM +0100 »

Quote
but normally it prevents weighttransfer and causes understeer.

It actually transfers more weight rather than less, but this causes understeer as the extra-unloaded inside tyre grips less and the over-loaded outside tyre cannot compensate.
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Jeffrey
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« Reply #24 on: September 17, 2009, 04:26:52 PM +0100 »

It actually transfers more weight rather than less, but this causes understeer as the extra-unloaded inside tyre grips less and the over-loaded outside tyre cannot compensate.

Ah okay, I thought less weight would get transfered over the outside wheel with stiffer ARB, making it less efficient, as the otuside wheel does moest of the steering.

Oh well, as long as I get the stiff ARB front = understeer right Cheesy
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Paul968
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« Reply #25 on: September 17, 2009, 04:30:54 PM +0100 »

Yes, it confused me big time at first! The way to think about it is that as the car rolls, the compression of the suspension on the outside wheel forces the anti-roll bar to pick up the inside wheel to keep it at the same level as the outside wheel. The outside wheel is the one which carries this weight, hence the transfer from inside to outside.
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H@L9000
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« Reply #26 on: September 17, 2009, 05:06:25 PM +0100 »

Very interesting. Thanks guys. Smiley

This makes sense now. I seemed faster with VERY high front ARB at Monza, this must work because the corners are mainly chicanes.

At Road America, my higher front ARB is helping on the slow/short corners but probably not so much on the fast/long corners then? Higher front ARB seems to be better overall so far. The car also 'feels' much better with higher front ARB.

For the record: normal front ARB for me is about 120 - 130. The higher setting I am using at Road America is 160. At Monza I use about 230. I (almost) always drive front engine cars which probably makes a difference to optimal ARB settings.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2009, 05:09:45 PM +0100 by H@L9000 » Logged

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Jeffrey
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« Reply #27 on: September 17, 2009, 05:55:58 PM +0100 »

For the record: normal front ARB for me is about 120 - 130. The higher setting I am using at Road America is 160. At Monza I use about 230. I (almost) always drive front engine cars which probably makes a difference to optimal ARB settings.

I also use high and stiff settings, but also at the rear, I have rear ARB at 100.
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Jure
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« Reply #28 on: September 17, 2009, 10:57:23 PM +0100 »

Aaaaaah, tech talk, good one too. Cool.  Cool

Harder front (or rear) ARB also helps transfering weight much faster thus makes the car more responsive when changing direction, which is why we all go for high front ARB at Monza. In effect - car's easier to slide around, soft ARBs make it grip like crazy but are hard to control once grip decides to let go (PITA on this track if front ARB is hard and rear is relatively soft).

Hard ARB comes handy in that 5th gear fast right kink at the back semi-straight, doesn't it? I must admit this track is very hard to dial in setup wise (or learn, first time on this track Cheesy ), never had so many problems with setup as here, very unpredictable in responding to setup changes, main theme is of course complete understeer-o-rama. It feels soooo lazy all the time and theeeen... tries to stab you in the back with fast snap oversteer.  Huh

Local track designer hates race engineers IMHO.  Grin

Good point on the high coast diff (same part of the track too! Cheesy ), will try that. Tinkered around with it few days ago but had too much wheelspin going on power, car was too nervous. That can be fixed though.

Low slow bump settings helped a bit too, made the car a bit more stable during braking, but going too low ruined weight transfer once again.

Medium-Hards or what? M-M or S-M get fried in no time (harder springs and ARB do the damage - fast).

Anyway, slow in fast out wins the day, that much I've gathered so far.  Grin And that looooong right hander in 3rd/4th... sweeeeet. Very technical track through and through to be honest. And still a mistery atm.

Oh yeah, to all you sub 2 mins in race pace - stop practicing! Better yet, anyone below 2.03  - stop practicing. Grin


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Truetom
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« Reply #29 on: September 18, 2009, 06:59:14 AM +0100 »

In the Viper GT1, I am doing OK so far by tweaking a setup for the F550 that I have. High 2.01 ish so far for race pace but not practised on line yet. Under 2 mins is Alien time, count me out of that. Grin

Looks like you and me again, H@l. Smiley
Tried lots of combos here, high arb, low springs; low arbs, high springs; everything in between. Grin Marcos is a bit special here as it doesn't like trailbraking - as soon as you brake and turn at the same time it wants to buck. Found out I have to have springs and front arb set quite hard in front to support and mild the front weight transfer. Also, when I had rear arb low any twitch with the wheel while braking sends the car spinning - I had to set rear arb a bit higher (not too high, mind you Cheesy ). Marcos with the high rear arb = suicide. It spins in 5th. Tongue

I like this track big time and also the hard time setting the car. Cool  Though Ford GT is much easier to set than Marcos. Tongue  Looking forward to the race. clap
« Last Edit: September 18, 2009, 07:01:01 AM +0100 by Truetom » Logged
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